Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[StoresBasher]

Coxswains are police officers, usually with experience from one of the state police forces or the AFP, they do all the legal matters required when policing Australia's territorial waters and also monitor crew behaviour, I believe some navies refer to them as regulators.

Coxwains are NPC, Naval Police Coxwains. The maintain discipline on HMA Ships, and are WSC, whole ship co-coordinators.
They come from other branches within the RAN, you cannot join up as a NPC.
It is usually the other way round, with RAN NPC leaving the Navy to take up positions in civilian law enforcement.

 

[weegee]

HMAS Choules and her escort HMAS Darwin looked great with the sun shining on them as they entered the Derwent a short time ago. It is Choules first trip to the Apple Isle.

Photos:

Tasman's Blog


Tas

Sorry to be stupid but is HMAS Choules allways going to have a escort even around AUS? I can understand elsewhere but I thought in local waters she could at least travel by herself if required?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

HMAS Choules and her escort HMAS Darwin looked great with the sun shining on them as they entered the Derwent a short time ago. It is Choules first trip to the Apple Isle.

They and Endeavour all look pretty hammered. Must have had some rough seas.

 

[Tasman]

They and Endeavour all look pretty hammered. Must have had some rough seas.

Yep a bit of painting to be done...

Nice to see the MRH-90 on Choules.

Tas

 

[Tasman]

Sorry to be stupid but is HMAS Choules allways going to have a escort even around AUS? I can understand elsewhere but I thought in local waters she could at least travel by herself if required?

Ships need to practice working together - voyages to Tasmania are usually part of or the culmination of training exercises. In this case the arrival is nicely timed for Anzac Day. Also if she is conducting trials with the MRH-90 helo she has embarked then it is handy to have another vessel for observation or to act as a spare deck if necessary.

Tas

 

[Tee_Centre_10]

The 127mm rocket was a weapon designed to bombard the beach with so as to destroy mines, obstacles and keep the heads down of the defenders so your amphibious assault can make it ashore. This is not a capability needed by the ADF to support our concept of amphibious assault.

Every now and again I'll come across a picture of an LSM(R), perhaps by turning a page or by clicking on a link, and without fail I'll smile at the little (or medium) landing ship with the big gun bolted to its deck. Then I will promptly forget all about it until the next time I turn a page and click a link and I'll be pleasantly surprised all over again.

Although it was meant in jest, I suspect it is my whimsical side that smiles at little ships with big guns that would be thrilled by the sight of the neo-LCH with the honking great Mk 45 bolted in front of the bridge. Such fancies ignore logical details such as utility.
It is the same side that misses the fact that destroyers don't come with three turrets. Sadly I was too young when HMAS Vampire was still commissioned, and I don't think she fired her 4.5s too much those last few years.

 

[ASSAIL]

Yep a bit of painting to be done...

Tas, when was the last time you saw a side party on a RAN ship?
In, at least, the last 10 years I have not seen it in Darwin. Our ships look horrible compared with those of other navies during visits. An hour or two with a bucket of "Rust Rinse" (Phosphoric acid) and some Jiff and a scourer would make the world of difference.

I understand times have changed with Min Manning etc but our ships now compare very poorly.

Icelord may be able to tell us what the current practices/policies are in relation to upkeep or is this still dependant upon the individual Buffer and Jimmy?

Cheers

 

[StoresBasher]

Sorry to be stupid but is HMAS Choules allways going to have a escort even around AUS? I can understand elsewhere but I thought in local waters she could at least travel by herself if required?

So you've seen Choules in the company of a FFG once and she is always going to have an escort?

We managed quite nicely coming back from the UK to Perth.
Then we made it from Perth to Sydney, all on our own.
Just finished 6 weeks up northern QLD, again on our own.

I'm afraid the dibbies don't do a lot if any upper deck painting anymore.

 

[Tasman]

Tas, when was the last time you saw a side party on a RAN ship?
In, at least, the last 10 years I have not seen it in Darwin. Our ships look horrible compared with those of other navies during visits. An hour or two with a bucket of "Rust Rinse" (Phosphoric acid) and some Jiff and a scourer would make the world of difference.

I understand times have changed with Min Manning etc but our ships now compare very poorly.

Icelord may be able to tell us what the current practices/policies are in relation to upkeep or is this still dependant upon the individual Buffer and Jimmy?

Cheers

Have to admit that I've only seen side parties on US ships in recent years and maybe on one of the Kiwis but my memory is dimming...

It is a real pity that the navy seems to be following the example of minimal maintenance, cleaning, etc that we've seen take on in the private sector. I guess minimal manning means short cuts are inevitable.


Tas

 

[ASSAIL]

It is a real pity that the navy seems to be following the example of minimal maintenance, cleaning, etc that we've seen take on in the private sector. I guess minimal manning means short cuts are inevitable.

I have a good idea, let's just employ Jenny side party on a permanent basis

Here's a shot of Perth in Honkers Christmas 1970, I'm the Sub next to the Chief FC Reg on the right!

Sorry about the quality, I salvaged it after TC Tracy

 

[stef_petit]

Coxswains are police officers, usually with experience from one of the state police forces or the AFP, they do all the legal matters required when policing Australia's territorial waters and also monitor crew behaviour, I believe some navies refer to them as regulators.

Thanks for the information. That is where I was looking for.
Does anyone also know how much Boatswain's Mates are working on an Armidale Class Patrol Boat, like HMAS Launceston?

Thanks a lot!
Stef

 

[Tasman]

I have a good idea, let's just employ Jenny side party on a permanent basis

Here's a shot of Perth in Honkers Christmas 1970, I'm the Sub next to the Chief FC Reg on the right!

Sorry about the quality, I salvaged it after TC Tracy

Good one! And nice to see a shot of Ikara again


Tas

 

[Volkodav]

Only in the context of the DDL. Australia ponied up some cash to help design the engine arrangement for the T21 which was a very successful COGOG set with Spey and Olympus used in lots of ships. The T21 technology also came into the DDL via Vickers. Vospers gets the credit/blame but all the Mk 5-10 boats were jointly designed with Vickers. I guess the DDL had a lot of T21 DNA in the same way that the Evolved AWD had DDG 51 DNA. Just with the smoothed off box Australian styling for the superstructure (see a range of Shipping Board designs of the 1960s) rather than the Vospers big MTB styling.

Ok that makes sense, still prefer the T21 styling though and looking at the original requirement for the DDL we could have done a lot worse than a basic minimum change Amazon (Mk45 inplace of Mk8 etc). Who knows, if the RAN had extra frigates in the early to mid 70s they may have kept their noses and crews out of the Army amphib force.

Harpoon came along later in the design timetable and the DDLs were designed for space and weight for four Exocet coffin launchers (like the T21). But in a totally different location with two each would have been positioned on the chaff deck (prophecy for the Anzac class?) which were P&S of the foremast. These launchers were super heavy so these decks would have been pretty strong. Once Harpoon is available and the Mk 13 GMLRS modified to store and fire it then those Exocet decks would be ideal locations for the Phalanx CIWS.

Fair enough, I was looking at Harpoon being a retro fit at a latter date when it was available. The idea was that these RAN Amazons would be designed to be fitted for but not with Exocet and when the money became available Harpoon would be the better option.

Vospers and Vickers came together to design the Mk 5 around 1965 and since then have grown it up to the Mk 10 for Brazil. They also had a range of other offerings including corvettes in the 1980s and DDGs in the 1970s all based on the same ship DNA.

The VT Harrier carrier also comes to mind as I have read it was an evolution of the T21 hull (hence why it was so small 8000t mix of 8 helos and Harriers). As the Harrier Carrier was one of the designs tendered for the RAN carrier replacement program the possibility it could have won had the RAN already had T21s and T21 based DDLs in-service or building was probably a lot higher. Its design heritage would have made local construction easier and its small size / low cost would have made building additional hulls affordable.

Remembering that in the late 60s a second or third carrier and a total of 23 destroyers were seen as the minimum requirement to evolve the RAN into a two ocean navy.

Imagine a 1990 RAN with 3 Harrier Carriers, 3-5 CFA DDGs, 6-10 DDLs, 10-12 T21s and 3 Protector Class AOEs. The carriers would fly Seakings and Seaharriers (as required), the T21s and DDLs Lynx. The usually deployable group would have consisted of a carrier, a DDG, a couple of DDLs, a couple of T21s and an AOE.

 

[ASSAIL]

Good one! And nice to see a shot of Ikara again


Tas

No, this is the IKARA shot that's good to see. Taken off JB during 7th Fleet pre-deployment workup.
Cheers

 

[weegee]

So you've seen Choules in the company of a FFG once and she is always going to have an escort?

We managed quite nicely coming back from the UK to Perth.
Then we made it from Perth to Sydney, all on our own.
Just finished 6 weeks up northern QLD, again on our own.

I'm afraid the dibbies don't do a lot if any upper deck painting anymore.

I know she traveled from the uk that way and from Perth that way too, but I just don't know enough about how the navy operates to say if an asset like this needs a escort at all times or if at all? Hence my question

On another note now that we seem to be winding down our commitment in Afghanistan will this free up a lot of money to be invested back into the defence force and inparticular the navy it seems like it needs a bit of a cash injection to get some of the expensive projects up and running or at least a commitment on those said projects, I.e subs, corvettes etc?

 

[gf0012-aust]

On another note now that we seem to be winding down our commitment in Afghanistan will this free up a lot of money to be invested back into the defence force and inparticular the navy it seems like it needs a bit of a cash injection to get some of the expensive projects up and running or at least a commitment on those said projects, I.e subs, corvettes etc?

No.

Defece is about to cop further cuts - drawdown is part of the process to save on sustainment, but training and establishment are already up for the chop and no areas will "gain" due to draw down and final withdrawal

 

[aussienscale]

No, this is the IKARA shot that's good to see. Taken off JB during 7th Fleet pre-deployment workup.
Cheers

That's an awesome pic I was on the Hobart in the early 90's, port mag was converted into the ships canteen and sectioned off for a tv smoking room which had ventilation seperated from the rest of the ship, stbd mag was converted to a gym in one area and the rest was turned into flag accomodation. If CNS, COMFLOT etc were ever going to sea Hobart always seemed to be the preffered option, hence the nickname "The Hobart Hilton".

Dissapointed that side party's seem to be a thing of the past ? We would be washing, painting, polishing etc whenever we got the chance to keep the ship looking good at all times. We would even break out the fire hoses when alongside and do a full ship washdown, or when up top before arriving into Singa's etc you would deliberately chase around storm cells and all hands on deck washing down the salt build up. Some of those downpours actually hurt, especially if your only wearing your shorts and sandals (gotta love the up top sandal strap sun tan btw) and there was a good incentive to get it done well and fast ! The quicker you finish the quicker you hit the piss

 

[ASSAIL]

Hmas melbourne cvs 21

There has been much discussion on this thread about fixed wing air at sea or whether or not a third LHD may or may not be acquired, all of it without substance of course!

With my new found "expertise" in scanning I thought I would take us back 32 years and share some memorabilia from my last job in the RAN - CAG TAS (the last) in HMAS MELBOURNE.

The photo was taken enroute between Karachi and Colombo on the day she celebrated 25 years service with the RAN. The 25th anniversary pack was a silver medallion, folder and the enclosed docs.

Ah, those were the days, she was our ticket into the 1st Division of world navies, we've been relegated ever since.

Ian Knox's last paragraph is a heartfelt plea which went unheard in Canberra.

 

[alexsa]

No, this is the IKARA shot that's good to see. Taken off JB during 7th Fleet pre-deployment workup.
Cheers

Hmmm, I was on Parramatta at RIMPAC when a double salvo was fired at a sumberged target we were towing (by Brisbane I think). We had rounds on the tray in the 4.5 as at our last IKARA firing the guidance fin parted company and the thing when ballistic.

Always loved IKARA firings, just not in our direction.

 

[Tasman]

With my new found "expertise" in scanning I thought I would take us back 32 years and share some memorabilia from my last job in the RAN - CAG TAS (the last) in HMAS MELBOURNE...


Ian Knox's last paragraph is a heartfelt plea which went unheard in Canberra.

Impressive 'last job' and a great photo.

The incoming government was committed to getting rid of the carrier from the RAN's order of battle and proceeded to do so with incredible haste regardless of any briefings, pleas, etc they may have received. I am also convinced that inter service rivalry, especially from the RAAF, contributed to an incredible waste of capability along with more than 30 years of expertise. It was ironic that the same political party that established the FAA and its original 2 carrier force was also the one that eliminated it. However, IMO, the other major political party also contributed to the demise of the FAA by failing to fund a replacement carrier during its many years in office. The navy did an incredible job to operate Melbourne as efficiently as it did for so long. There were, as mentioned in this thread, many opportunities to replace it in the 60s. None of the options were taken up and navy had to soldier on much like they had to do in the last decade with Manoora and Kanimbla.


Tas