F-22 can't fire AIM-9X !!

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Looking through the glass monocle the pilot sees a reticle or aiming sight pattern and to use it he turns his head to put the target aircraft in the centre of the reticle and presses a button on his control stick which slaves the selected missiles seeker to his line of sight, so it turns to where he is looking and gets a lock on that target. When lock is acquired the pilot is free to pull the trigger and launch the missile.

When this system entered service his NATO equivalent looked around in the sky for the enemy and when he located them he had to turn his entire aircraft to point his nose at the target and then activate his missile seeker to scan for the target. If there is a group of targets EVEN IF HE GETS A RADAR LOCK that means nothing because there is no link between his radar and his IR guided missiles so his radar might lock on one target and his IR guided missile might lock on a different target altogether...

It is amusing the west calls the Soviet system crude because the US equivalent didn't enter service till at least 20 years later, has no clear advantages over the Soviet system though it is heavier, more complex and orders of magnitude more expensive so only a small percentage of US fighters actually have it... and that does not include their F-22s. On the other hand every model from the oldest to the newest Mig-29 and Su-27 have it fitted as standard.

If I may quote from a piece by FulcrumFlyer, a pilot with 500 hours on the Fulcrum, 2000 hours on the F16 and time in the F15C..

"The MiG-29 is not without strong points. The pilot can override the angle of attack limiter. This is especially useful in vertical maneuvering or in last ditch attempts to bring weapons to bear or defeat enemy shots. The HMS and AA-11 Archer make the Fulcrum a deadly foe in the visual arena. The AA-11 is far superior to the American AIM-9M. By merely turning his head, the MiG pilot can bring an Archer to bear. The one limitation, however, is that the Fulcrum pilot has no cue as to where the Archer seeker head is actually looking. This makes it impossible to determine if the missile is tracking the target, a flare, or some other hot spot in the background. (Note: the AIM-9X which is already fielded on the F-15C, and to be fielded on the F-16 in 2007, is far superior to the AA-11) "

This is the point I was trying to make - the Fulcrum driver can turn their head, get a lock tone but not be sure if what they're looking at is what the seeker is targeting.

It's a subtle but important distinction.


I wasn't describing the sight as crude earlier, I was referring to the entire aircraft - I will quote from the same pilot now and while I apologise for the length of the quote, and for it not being on topic at all, I hope the moderators will offer a little leeway as it strongly touches on the point of situational awareness. A mig driver will simply spend more energy trying to keep the aircraft in the air and pointing where they want to go compared to the F16 and comparable aircraft. These are comments from a real actual pilot who flies things, not some internet amateur (such as myself) and I think it's an invaluable insight.

"Of the four fighters I have flown, the MiG-29 has by far the worst handling qualities. The hydro-mechanical flight control system uses an artificial feel system of springs and pulleys to simulate control force changes with varying airspeeds and altitudes. There is a stability augmentation system that makes the aircraft easier to fly but also makes the aircraft more sluggish to flight control inputs. It is my opinion that the jet is more responsive with the augmentation system disengaged. Unfortunately, this was allowed for demonstration purposes only as this also disengages the angle-of-attack (AoA) limiter. Stick forces are relatively light but the stick requires a lot of movement to get the desired response. This only adds to sluggish feeling of the aircraft. The entire time you are flying, the stick will move randomly about one-half inch on its own with a corresponding movement of the flight control surface. Flying the Fulcrum requires constant attention. If the pilot takes his hand off the throttles, the throttles probably won't stay in the position in which they were left. They'll probably slide back into the 'idle' position.

The Fulcrum is relatively easy to fly during most phases of flight such as takeoff, climb, cruise and landing. However, due to flight control limitations, the pilot must work hard to get the jet to respond the way he wants. This is especially evident in aggressive maneuvering, flying formation or during attempts to employ the gun. Aerial gunnery requires very precise handling in order to be successful. The MiG-29’s handling qualities in no way limit the ability of the pilot to perform his mission, but they do dramatically increase his workload. The F-16’s quadruple-redundant digital flight control system, on the other hand, is extremely responsive, precise and smooth throughout the flight regime.

There is no auto-trim system in the MiG-29 as in the F-16. Trimming the aircraft is practically an unattainable state of grace in the Fulcrum. The trim of the aircraft is very sensitive to changes in airspeed and power and requires constant attention. Changes to aircraft configuration such as raising and lowering the landing gear and flaps cause significant changes in pitch trim that the pilot must be prepared for. As a result, the MiG-29 requires constant attention to fly. The F-16 auto-trims to one G or for whatever G the pilot has manually trimmed the aircraft for.

The MiG-29 flight control system also has an AoA limiter that limits the allowable AoA to 26°. As the aircraft reaches the limit, pistons at the base of the stick push the stick forward and reduce the AoA about 5°. The pilot has to fight the flight controls to hold the jet at 26°. The limiter can be overridden, however, with about 17 kg more back pressure on the stick. While not entirely unsafe and at times tactically useful, care must be taken not to attempt to roll the aircraft with ailerons when above 26° AoA. In this case it is best to control roll with the rudders due to adverse yaw caused by the ailerons at high AoA. The F-16 is electronically limited to 26° AoA. While the pilot cannot manually override this limit it is possible to overshoot under certain conditions and risk departure from controlled flight. This is a disadvantage to the F-16 but is a safety margin due its lack of longitudinal stability. Both aircraft have a lift limit of approximately
35° AoA. "
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
F-22 ICP info: Here's a clue, it aint no 386
and guess what - F-22 uses a RISC chip - optimised for its task. something that I gently alluded to earlier...

in fact one of the members in here was involved in a process of trying to source surplus stocks of that chip a few years back.

its far easier though for some to get revved up and demonstrate a poor understanding rather than pause and learn.

driving video streams over an X86 or 64bit chip is hysterical considering that this is a task handled by GPU's and/or RISC chips.

There are any number of legacy combat systems initially designed 25 years ago and still in service where they are using milspec dx40's. a MOTS dx40 is not the same as a COTS dx40 that you could buy from your local computer shop

in fact there a quite a few combat systems using i960's - the same chip used in high end network printers designed from 12 years ago.

its about code efficiency and RISC has been used because its task optimised. efficient code + RISC is a whole lot better than optimised code and a 64bit cpu.

ignorance is bliss for some...
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The original F-22 computer was i960 (up until batch 5/6 IIRC), which is still a RISC chip.
the same RISC that HP used to use in their 5 Series LAN printers in the late 90's :) Graanted the HP printers weren't milspec.. :)

I have a batch of them in my memento box :)
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
i960s were very liked for SCSI RAID controller cards too.
we used to use them in Subs and ewarfare aircraft because they didn't need the same cooling add ons that intel chips needed. ie heatsink or peltier hat was enough. Pentiums used to overheat and snap out - and using fans to cool them was not an option as space was a premium in some racks and there was no way to vent the thermals "properly"
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
we used to use them in Subs and ewarfare aircraft because they didn't need the same cooling add ons that intel chips needed. ie heatsink or peltier hat was enough. Pentiums used to overheat and snap out - and using fans to cool them was not an option as space was a premium in some racks and there was no way to vent the thermals "properly"
I take it using one to keep your coffee warm was not an option then? It was fine as long as the ceramic mug would take radiant heat. And one did not forget to keep some coffee or tea in the mug...
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I take it using one to keep your coffee warm was not an option then? It was fine as long as the ceramic mug would take radiant heat. And one did not forget to keep some coffee or tea in the mug...
They were hellishly efficient :) Heat sinks were enough and quite a few were sans heatsink
 
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