Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

weegee

weegee

Active Member
Thanks Ab I thought it must have been more than it appears on the surface. (as most things are I suppose) Still we gain a hell of a lot of benefit from the relationship, It is a good place be as a special friend cheap prices on equipment, weaponry, technology.
 
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tiddles

New Member
south said:
additionally although WRT to the Falklands the US did not make direct contributions of men/platforms they did provide significant contributions in Intel, weapons and logistics
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I cant comment on intel or logistics support as I have no idea, but many years ago I saw an interview with Margaret Thatcher where the question of US weapons support during the Falklands was bought up & she was at great pains to point out that although the U.S. supplied weapons to the UK they were fully paid for and there were no 'mates rates' or words to that effect .In other words there were no great favours done, ,just business.
Tiddles
 
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south

Well-Known Member
Of course they were paid for, that is how the world works. In saying that however they got access to stuff quicker and easier than what they would have otherwise....
 
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Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
south said:
Of course they were paid for, that is how the world works. In saying that however they got access to stuff quicker and easier than what they would have otherwise....
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And that’s similar to our relationship with the US. We don’t get stuff cheaper than it costs but we get good access, top shelf stuff and lots of up front information and experience which you wouldn’t get if you were say a Malaysia or a Chile.

There are other significant benefits from our relationship in particular high level intelligence feeds and government to government and forces to forces links. The value of these is hard to quantify but you’re much better off with it than without it.
 
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Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
rand0m said:
This may be old news, you can look at photos of aircraft (of all three services) both past and present.

Pretty neat I think!

Welcome to ADF Serials
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ADF Serials has been around for over 10 years and the Australian defence/aerospace community is lucky to have them.

Of the many photos on that page these are my favourites:

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/albums/Valiant/RAAF_Valiant.jpg

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/galle...e_A94_922_Navy_scheme_Photo_via_Mark_Webb.jpg
 
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Tee_Centre_10

Member
You just want to sigh at some of the displays of irrationality over the last 24 hours.

US military eyes Cocos Islands as a future Indian Ocean spy base.

As I understand the situation, the US lease on Diego Garcia does expire in 2016, but there is an option to extend the lease by a further 20 years (can anyone see the US or UK not agreeing to this?), and there is nothing to prevent the US from taking out another lease on the site.

Apart from the obvious issues of abandoning an existing facility in which the US has spent multiple billions, there are sound reasons to not go for the Cocos Islands as a MOB:
  • West Island (the island with the airfield) isn't big enough to accommodate long runways and extensive aprons for B-52, B-2s and aerial tankers, not to mention the service and accommodation areas, the logistics areas and the munitions storage areas.
  • The lagoon isn't sheltered and it isn't deep water (such as Diego Garcia).
  • There is an existing civilian population. Gone are the days when governments can remove entire populations without a public uproar (look at what happens when kangaroos are culled at bases).
  • Along with the locals, there is tourist/visitor access to the islands. Not the most secure/private of places to conduct operations.
  • How thrilled do you think the Australian public would be by the USAF conducting B-52 raids from Australian territory? Diego Garcia is at least outside the view of the British public.
Why would the US exchange Diego Garcia for this?

As far as I'm aware, the extent of the proposal is that the airport would be upgraded to support its use as a refuelling point for transiting USAF/USN P-3/P-8/RC-135/UAV/etc operations.
 
Tasman

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
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south

Well-Known Member
Defence said:
Minister for Defence Stephen Smith and Minister for Defence Materiel Jason Clare today announced that the Government would spend more than $19 million to purchase long lead item electronic equipment for the potential conversion of twelve of Australia’s F-18 Super Hornet’s to the EA-18G Growler variant.

In 2009, the Government made the decision to wire 12 Super Hornets for potential conversion to the Growler configuration at a cost of $35 million.

Growler is an electronic warfare system that gives the Super Hornet the ability to jam the electronics systems of aircraft and land-based radars and communications systems. The Growler electronic warfare aircraft was used very effectively by the United States Navy during air operations in Libya last year.

The long lead items are systems and equipment that are required for any potential conversion of Australia’s existing Super Hornets and include:

Electronic systems;
Antennas; and
High Frequency modulation receivers

The decision to purchase this equipment has been made now to ensure Australia continues to have potential access to the Growler technology. A final decision on whether Australia converts some of its Super Hornets to Growler configuration will be made after exhaustive assessment by the Government this year. This purchase ensures Australia will continue to have access to specific technologies needed to make any such conversion.

The purchase of this equipment is being made through the United States Foreign Military Sales process. As part of this process, a Letter of Request formally requesting the purchase has been delivered to the United States.

If Australia converts some of its Super Hornets to Growler configuration it will be the only country in the world, other than the United States, operating such aircraft.

Imagery is available at: All Images - FotoWeb 7.0

Media Contacts:

Mr Smith – Ellen Shields 0400 347 473

Mr Clare – Korena Flanagan 0418 251 316

Defence Media Operations - (02) 6127 1999

Tas
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Funny that they are ordering long lead time items but not making a delivery. "If" this (Growlers, even without -99 pods) happens it will change the RAAF/ADF more than getting vanilla Supers has.
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
south said:
Funny that they are ordering long lead time items but not making a delivery. "If" this (Growlers, even without -99 pods) happens it will change the RAAF/ADF more than getting vanilla Supers has.
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unbelieveable. 5 months to finally make the announcement
 
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jack412

Active Member
They haven't really announced it yet, this is long-lead just in case we decide to get growlers.
I think they will announce getting growlers at the end of the year, when they decide on delivery of the other JSFs, saying it's part of the gap-fill till the F-35 is IOC. It will be part of a 'big' announcement with a marching band and streamers.

LM committee transcripts are online now
http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo...nt/3cb4e326-70e4-4abd-acb7-609a16072b70/0000"
 
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south

Well-Known Member
and if they dont end up buying growlers they're also going to have fun explaining why they just laid down another $19M in the current budget climate.
 
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ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
south said:
and if they dont end up buying growlers they're also going to have fun explaining why they just laid down another $19M in the current budget climate.
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Yeah it doesn't make much sense to me. If they decide not to buy Growler they've spent $54m on acquiring absolutely nothing at all.

Absolutely crazy, unless they have decided but are prevaricating for some estoric reason beyond rationale explanation.

The Chief of Air Force is obviously pretty keen on the idea.
 
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uuname

New Member
ADMk2 said:
Absolutely crazy, unless they have decided but are prevaricating for some estoric reason beyond rationale explanation.
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Isn't there a new jammer in the works for the Growler? Is it possible they want that, and are delaying the purchase for as long as possible since there's no point upgrading the aircraft until the new jammer is ready?
 
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ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
uuname said:
Isn't there a new jammer in the works for the Growler? Is it possible they want that, and are delaying the purchase for as long as possible since there's no point upgrading the aircraft until the new jammer is ready?
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There is, but even the 'passive' Growler 'lite' capability (ie: no wideband jammers) is still a capability an order of magnitude beyond that which we currently have.

There's no guarantee we can't get the ALQ-99 jammer pods anyway. The USN is still ordering them...
 
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Milne Bay

Active Member
ADMk2 said:
Yeah it doesn't make much sense to me. If they decide not to buy Growler they've spent $54m on acquiring absolutely nothing at all.

Absolutely crazy, unless they have decided but are prevaricating for some estoric reason beyond rationale explanation.

The Chief of Air Force is obviously pretty keen on the idea.
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My guess is that there will certainly be Growlers and that to have them, the necessary items with long lead times need to be purchased. There has been no announcement (I am guessing) because it has everything to do with the precious budget surplus coming up to the federal election, and the impact an announcement would have on the forward estimates.
So, we are getting growlers, we just can't tell anyone, so that theoretically the money is still in the budget and hasn't been allocated.
 
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jack412

Active Member
Well it seems I missed Smith's media release on the Growler last Thursday, but better late than never. he will announce his decision this year.

Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence and Minister for Defence Materiel – Joint Media Release – Growler Electronic Warfare Aircraft

http://www.avionews.com
"The purchase for 19 million dollars includes the ALQ-218(V)2 wideband receivers (an upgrade of the one carried by the EA-6B Prowler), the ALQ-99 high and low-band tactical jamming pods CCS (Communication Countermeasures Set) and the AN/ALE-47 CMDS (Counter Measures Dispenser System)."
 
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ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
jack412 said:
Well it seems I missed Smith's media release on the Growler last Thursday, but better late than never. he will announce his decision this year.

Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence and Minister for Defence Materiel – Joint Media Release – Growler Electronic Warfare Aircraft

Avionews - Agenzia stampa del settore aeronautico, elicotteristico, aerospaziale e della difesa
"The purchase for 19 million dollars includes the ALQ-218(V)2 wideband receivers (an upgrade of the one carried by the EA-6B Prowler), the ALQ-99 high and low-band tactical jamming pods CCS (Communication Countermeasures Set) and the AN/ALE-47 CMDS (Counter Measures Dispenser System)."
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That news release is already on this page...

As to the equipment fit, the $19m isn't covering that, only long lead items, the entire purchase will be a $300m or so purchase. No details of system has yet been announced either, by RAAF or DSCA so it looks like avionews just took the standard Growler fit and assumed that's what we're getting...
 
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jack412

Active Member
well that was a waste of a post for me and the people who read it..I see where I went wrong, although I commented on the last page about the long lead time, I don't normally read quotes and the media release was put up as a quote, hense I missed it

I was looking at the new SAR which is getting closer to what we are told our price will be and the nearest I can gather can see no reason why on cost we won't get the remaining 12 in 2016/17
page 39/40
http://www.aviationweek.com/media/pdf/F-35Dec11FINALSAR-senttoCongress3-29-2012.pdf

2014 number built 19 units @ $100m EA plus engine ~$10.9m = URF in yr 2012 dollars
2015 32 @ 86m " " " "
2016 48 73
2017 48 70
2018 60 62m design lock
2019 60 61.5 test for rate production
2020 60 62 start full rate production
2021 80 60
2022 80 60.5
2023 number built 80 @ $60m plus engine ~$10.9 = URF in yr 2012 dollars

page 64
F-35A (Conventional Takeoff and Landing) URF - $10.9 M (BY 2012) F-135
 
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