Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[rossfrb_1]

snip I'm sure MBDA would love to put it on MH-60.

They probably would, however I doubt that MBDA would do it at MBDA's expense.
After all who helped fund Hellfire II integration with the (Eurocopter's) Tiger ARH?
I don't know what, if any, fiscal benefit Australia derived from that, now that the French subsequently decided they want Hellfire II for their Tigers.
This is the rub for ADF, their future naval helicopter will be the MH-60R, with no medium/long range missile shooter capability (I consider Hellfire short range esp in naval terms). Australia (along with the Dutch?) was helping fund NSM integration with the JSF. If anything wouldn't ADF consider NSM integration with MH-60? Even then I call it a long shot (pun intended).

Previous versions of MH-60, I believe had Penguin integrated. It is my understanding that the Romeo doesn't. NSM is a marginally bigger beast than Penguin. I do not know the risk or potential $$ involved in such integration work with the Romeo.
$$ is scarce for ADF ATM, what after Choules, an additional C-17 and the C-27 announcement.
Labor seems to favour defence procurements that don't go bang.

rb

 

[aussienscale]

Yes they do appear to moving quickly with Adelaide.

From memory when Canberra was launched, at the top of the slip was part of the keel section of Adelaide to move into place.

Now if only a 3rd was ordered (HMAS Australia?), maybe she could be done even faster and cheaper!!

Oh well, we can only dream!!

The keel laying ceremony for the Adelaide was the very afternoon Canberra was launched, The 3rd isn't going to happen.

The project seems to be going very well so far, so as Volk mentioned time for BAE and the Australian industry to correct that

 

[ADMk2]

The project seems to be going very well so far, so as Volk mentioned time for BAE and the Australian industry to correct that

Yes, I dread the day when the Blue Marlin has to divert HMAS Adelaide elsewhere because BAE still has Canberra on their docks, in "integration hell" and BAE workers standing around still trying to figure out how to read the (Spanish) instructions on how to attach the superstructure to the hull...

:lam

 

[Tasman]

Yes, I dread the day when the Blue Marlin has to divert HMAS Adelaide elsewhere because BAE still has Canberra on their docks, in "integration hell" and BAE workers standing around still trying to figure out how to read the (Spanish) instructions on how to attach the superstructure to the hull...

:lam

Scary thoughts!!!

BTW is anyone in the know able to cast any light on how the first AWD is going? Are the hull blocks mating up OK now?

Tas

 

[icelord]

Yes, I dread the day when the Blue Marlin has to divert HMAS Adelaide elsewhere because BAE still has Canberra on their docks, in "integration hell" and BAE workers standing around still trying to figure out how to read the (Spanish) instructions on how to attach the superstructure to the hull...

:lam

They probably have the dimensions off for attaching the superstructure to the hull...and it will be spains fault!

 

[phreeky]

Hopefully everyone is working in metric and we don't do a NASA

 

[Volkodav]

Scary thoughts!!!

BTW is anyone in the know able to cast any light on how the first AWD is going? Are the hull blocks mating up OK now?

Tas

Its amazing what can ba accomplished with a sledge hammer and lots of swearing.
The schedule slip was related to the time required to fix the identified issues in the first blocks fabricated in Williamstown, subsequent blocks have benifited from lessons learned, but the time lost likely will never be recovered.

I often take digs at BAE / Williamstown but the truth of the matter is their skills base deteriorated due to lack of work prior to the award of the blocks contract through government procurement decissions. Long story short, had the government provided sufficient work (think the corrvettes they cancelled in 96) then we wouldn't be having the issues we are currently having. Sadly history is likely to repeat, having built capability at a new site, politics and public opinion will likely see it all flushed down the toilet again as the anti-manufacturing trolls emerge from the wood work to drone on about competative advantage, not having the skills etc. Australia is very good at starting from scratch because that what we do all the time, we start up relean everything get up to a world standard then kill everything off due to lack of vision from our political class and the wrecking slash and burn attitude of our mainsteam media.

 

[ASSAIL]

But gents, we are getting better! The record time for building a warship at Dogtown was 9 years and 4 months (HMAS Vendetta from 1 Jul 49 to 25 Nov 58) but this did coincided with the Type 15 conversions for Quadrant and Quickmatch.
The next worse at Williamstown was for HMAS Melbourne III, 6 years and 8 months (12 Jul 85 to Feb 92.
The Type 12's averaged about 4 1/2 years and the Anzacs about 3 1/2 years, a tribute to the continuity of work at WND/Tenix.
Surely DMO will get the message, one day, that complex naval shipbuilding needs continuity so lets not heap all the invective on BAE.
God help us if the future subs are not started on completion of AWD Sydney!

 

[Volkodav]

But gents, we are getting better! The record time for building a warship at Dogtown was 9 years and 4 months (HMAS Vendetta from 1 Jul 49 to 25 Nov 58) but this did coincided with the Type 15 conversions for Quadrant and Quickmatch.
The next worse at Williamstown was for HMAS Melbourne III, 6 years and 8 months (12 Jul 85 to Feb 92.
The Type 12's averaged about 4 1/2 years and the Anzacs about 3 1/2 years, a tribute to the continuity of work at WND/Tenix.
Surely DMO will get the message, one day, that complex naval shipbuilding needs continuity so lets not heap all the invective on BAE.
God help us if the future subs are not started on completion of AWD Sydney!

Unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised if the new subs end up being MOTS and possibly even built, or at least predominately fabricated off shore. There is a distinct lack of intellect in Canberra at the moment, on all sides, with anyone showing any promice of intelligence being sidelined or demoted. Australia look to be barreling along the road of becoming one giant mine with even basic labour needs filled by workers flying in from overseas.

 

[John Newman]

The keel laying ceremony for the Adelaide was the very afternoon Canberra was launched, The 3rd isn't going to happen.

The project seems to be going very well so far, so as Volk mentioned time for BAE and the Australian industry to correct that

My comment about a 3rd was done very "tongue in cheek", yes it isn't going to happen.

Hopefully BAE doesn't screw it up!

If they can't fit the superstructure, the fall back might be to buy some empty shipping containers, stack them like "lego" and weld them to the deck where the superstructure is supposed to go!!

Or they could borrow the "tent" hangar off Choules and drive her from there!!

 

[gf0012-aust]

Or they could borrow the "tent" hangar off Choules and drive her from there!!

they'll have ample time to do it as she goes into maint this year - she won't even get 12 months sea time up and is destined for regular surgery....

 

[John Newman]

they'll have ample time to do it as she goes into maint this year - she won't even get 12 months sea time up and is destined for regular surgery....

GF,

Less than 12 months?, Surgery?

Well those comment of yours certainly pricked my ears up!

I though after the survey before purchase, the pre-delivery refit, arriving in Sydney in December looking new and fresh, and with all the comments, being regularly repeated, that Largs/Choules was "in good material state" would have meant it would be quiet a few years (at least till Canberra) was in service, before a refit was due again.

So, do you know something, we dont??

 

[Volkodav]

they'll have ample time to do it as she goes into maint this year - she won't even get 12 months sea time up and is destined for regular surgery....

Hopefully you are refering to her receiving the same mods as her sisters as well as any required Australian mods, coms, beefed up aircon etc.

 

[John Newman]

Hopefully you are refering to her receiving the same mods as her sisters as well as any required Australian mods, coms, beefed up aircon etc.

Makes you wonder what mods, etc, were done (or not!) at the pre-delivery refit in the UK.

Should she have stayed longer? Or was "just" enough done to her so she could sail into Sydney just before Xmas to make the Government look good??

If she "has" to be docked in the next 12 months, for whatever is required as GF has suggested, lets hope the RAN doesn't get caught with their pants down, again!

 

[StoresBasher]

GF,

Less than 12 months?, Surgery?

Well those comment of yours certainly pricked my ears up!

I though after the survey before purchase, the pre-delivery refit, arriving in Sydney in December looking new and fresh, and with all the comments, being regularly repeated, that Largs/Choules was "in good material state" would have meant it would be quiet a few years (at least till Canberra) was in service, before a refit was due again.

So, do you know something, we dont??

Yeah this is news to me and I am serving on her

 

[John Newman]

Yeah this is news to me and I am serving on her

I'm confused too!

So is there any reason, that you know of, why she would need "surgery" within the next 12 months, that GF mentioned??

 

[AMTP10E]

Yeah this is news to me and I am serving on her

I'd have to check your FGP for the when and how long but I think there is some equipment that is yet to be fitted. In addition I think that Navy will be religious about adhearing to the usage upkeep cycle. Mind you, with the state Toobroken is in I imagine MAROPS will be squeezing every last availability day out of Choules.

 

[Anixtu]

Perhaps there is some confusion here. In RFA service she would have required an annual hull survey, which would often have been carried out in drydock. Are the RAN following the same survey regime?

 

[Tasman]

they'll have ample time to do it as she goes into maint this year - she won't even get 12 months sea time up and is destined for regular surgery....

You've thrown the cat among the pigeons GF! Can you provide a bit of clarification? Are you talking routine maintenance, the upgrades mentioned earlier or something major?


Tas

 

[Navor86]

With introduction of the MH-60 into the Navy, will the Navy MRH90 be transferred to the Army or will they stay with Navy?