Iran claims to have shot down US drone
- Thread starter lucinator
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b or c
Iraning hacking being GPS jamming. While Im sure standard GPS jamming would be ineffective, I would imagine the Russians would have been developing jamming capable of disabling military GPS. GPS signals are weak, the sats are really far away and have quite feeble transmitters. As sats they can't be instantly upgraded and will operate in the same manner for most of their life time. Its only a matter of time before a tier 1 power develops counter measures.
It could have just been a mechanical or electrical failure on the part of the drone.
The Iranians may look over the equipment themselves for a while. But Eventually it will be the Russians or the Chinese that are most interested in the tech and have the know how to reverse engineer it and do something. The Iranians would strike some deal for it. The Russians or the Chinese would be able to pick a plant I don't think that would really get far.
It could have just been a mechanical or electrical failure on the part of the drone.
The Iranians may look over the equipment themselves for a while. But Eventually it will be the Russians or the Chinese that are most interested in the tech and have the know how to reverse engineer it and do something. The Iranians would strike some deal for it. The Russians or the Chinese would be able to pick a plant I don't think that would really get far.
surpreme
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B and C
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Sampanviking
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The question that occurs to me is were the Iranians acting alone?
Regional powers have no doubt been itching to test their counter abilities against the latest US kit and Iran would be the ideal place for them to try and do so with relative impunity.
Regional powers have no doubt been itching to test their counter abilities against the latest US kit and Iran would be the ideal place for them to try and do so with relative impunity.
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Hard to day, on one hand Iran defiantly does not have the tech or know how to down a US drone in the manner they have claimed. On the other hand it would be a dead giveaway to the US that either Russia or China have the tech and it would probably not be to difficult to figure out which one of them did it. Also the US will learn from the failure and be better prepared to defend the rest of its drone fleet from further incidents like this thus rendering the tech obsolete. So one has to wonder if it would be viewed as worth it. All this assumes that the drone was intentionally downed.
localhost127
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wouldn't the root cause be pretty clearly identified based on whether other RQ170s are still flying such missions?
if it was a known/confirmed mechanical problem, then other birds would still be providing coverage without a gap. if they felt there was a strong possibility of EA/spoofing (drone was brought down by unknown causes), then wouldn't the others be grounded until the issue identified and sorted?
but good luck for the public getting any information at all on such data
if it was a known/confirmed mechanical problem, then other birds would still be providing coverage without a gap. if they felt there was a strong possibility of EA/spoofing (drone was brought down by unknown causes), then wouldn't the others be grounded until the issue identified and sorted?
but good luck for the public getting any information at all on such data
Iran ready to clone US drone | Air Force News at DefenceTalk
This could turn bad for the US, i'm sure whatever the Iranians clone (if this isn't a bluff) it won't be as good as the most technical systems on board but it'd be streaks ahead of whatever their first UAV could do. Although its highly unlikely that they could reverse engineer it let alone hack the thing in the first place, DT has suggested it would need the help of either Russia or China to do it [1]
I agree with a previous DT article, that it was unlikely to be a connection/software issue or hacking but an environmental reason. It does seem the most likely, either that or as someone has suggested, the CIA let them have it but i don't see that happening as if it was meant to be captured it wouldn't have top tech sensors and the like and the Iranians would probably realise this.
As much as i believe Iran didn't hack into it, the fact that it experienced a soft landing could substantiate this. I mean i would have thought a malfunction or environmental issue would have resulted in a typical crash.
[1] We will reverse-engineer US drone: top Iranian MP | Air Force News at DefenceTalk
[2] Loss of Stealth Drone Undermines Case for Replacing Manned Systems | Air Force News at DefenceTalk
This could turn bad for the US, i'm sure whatever the Iranians clone (if this isn't a bluff) it won't be as good as the most technical systems on board but it'd be streaks ahead of whatever their first UAV could do. Although its highly unlikely that they could reverse engineer it let alone hack the thing in the first place, DT has suggested it would need the help of either Russia or China to do it [1]
I agree with a previous DT article, that it was unlikely to be a connection/software issue or hacking but an environmental reason. It does seem the most likely, either that or as someone has suggested, the CIA let them have it but i don't see that happening as if it was meant to be captured it wouldn't have top tech sensors and the like and the Iranians would probably realise this.
[2]
As much as i believe Iran didn't hack into it, the fact that it experienced a soft landing could substantiate this. I mean i would have thought a malfunction or environmental issue would have resulted in a typical crash.
[1] We will reverse-engineer US drone: top Iranian MP | Air Force News at DefenceTalk
[2] Loss of Stealth Drone Undermines Case for Replacing Manned Systems | Air Force News at DefenceTalk
Regarding reverse engineering and it's impact you must first ask:
1. What components do they have the technical ability to actually produce.
2. Which of these are stand alone components that could be applied to future/other designs to render a capable platform.
These aren't simple designs like a WW2 aircraft whose physical dimensions alone are the very virtue of their capability.
They could make a virtual exact copy of the aircraft they have and still have zero capability because the aircraft itself only represents a small portion of the "system".
I'm not at all worried they will be able to pull anything remotely useful to them to be used by them in a copy, or any of their own designs.
1. What components do they have the technical ability to actually produce.
2. Which of these are stand alone components that could be applied to future/other designs to render a capable platform.
These aren't simple designs like a WW2 aircraft whose physical dimensions alone are the very virtue of their capability.
They could make a virtual exact copy of the aircraft they have and still have zero capability because the aircraft itself only represents a small portion of the "system".
I'm not at all worried they will be able to pull anything remotely useful to them to be used by them in a copy, or any of their own designs.
Exactly, as i said although it is highly unlikely that they could reverse engineer anything alone it does not neccesarily mean that other parties (like Russia or China) could get involved. Theres more to the UAV than its onboard computer systems.
Theres always a slim chance they may fight at least one thing useful, sure people can say what technical equipment they may or may not be able to reproduce. Even if theres one minute thing they get from it be it a thing or an idea then it would have been of some use.
The Iranians aren't exactly stupid, that drone (all be it alone it doesn't compromise the entire system) is a gift from heaven. Its a stealth drone after all so although the systems may be useless in the grand scheme of things, they may be able to gleam some stealth information from it which could sell for a high price i would imagine.
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I agree Rob, I'm sure they can gleen something from the wreckage, if in fact they actually have the thing in the first place. I'm just pointing out that they simply can't make a copy of this aircraft, they don't have the ability nor the infrastructure even if they were given the plans for the whole system.
Naturally we don't want them to have it, they will surely find out a thing or two they wouldn't otherwise but I seriously question the utility of that knowledge.
I wont rule out simple human ingenuity, underestimating a possible enemy has lost many battles. But there are certain reallities in this situation that make me less worried than the main stream media would like me to be.
Naturally we don't want them to have it, they will surely find out a thing or two they wouldn't otherwise but I seriously question the utility of that knowledge.
I wont rule out simple human ingenuity, underestimating a possible enemy has lost many battles. But there are certain reallities in this situation that make me less worried than the main stream media would like me to be.
I too am confident that whatever they can take away from it it will most likely be rudimentary tech which to the West seems fairly basic but to Iran may be something they've never had. It seems the most concerning fact is learning how the thing went down so cleanly rather than wrecking OR just losing the thing completely.
I agree about them not being able to replicate it, i'm guessing they're planning on saying they've replicated it and just acting like they now have the capibility and generally making out they're more technical than they are percieved.
investigate
New Member
Can you rephrase that ?RobWilliams said:
Plenty of people say 'Iran can't do this' or 'Iran can't do this' but there is always a very small chance that they get SOMETHING useful.
If they learn one very small thing from that UAV be that physical technology or inspiration to develop something then the UAV had a use for them.
To be honest re-reading it back it seems to make sense to me.
EDIT: being a new member i highly suggest you read the forum rules, moderators hate one-liners that contribute nothing to the discussion, just so you know. Why not introduce yourself in the new members thread also
It's just very difficult to believe that they have the technical capability, as far as that goes Iran is pretty low on the list in technological innovation.
There are just too many questions left:
Iran or USA still hasn't given us the EXACT timeline when this happened?
Iran can jam GPS (maybe), that doesn't explain why RQ170 didn't just use its INS to get home? How did Iran land it?
Where are the other UAVs Iran claims they have downed, by the way, why hasn't Iran shown us the guts of the RQ? We only saw a few minutes of video....
How did Iran track it? As an aside, makes you wonder how come Pakistan never saw the RQ when it was flying over PAK., how did Iran get so lucky?
These are just some of the questions I have and why I feel at this time, that the most reasonable explanation is mechanical failure. If we get more answers, maybe I would believe Iran had something to do with it.
Personally, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I prefer to go with the simplest explanation i.e. a complicated piece of kit malfunctioned. It' s happened before and will happen again.
That is the simplest, however i would have thought the chances of a component malfunctioning and the UAV having such a soft landing be very small. I'd have thought it would have resulted in a crash landing.
A scenario that keeps coming in my mind is something like a fin malfunction of jam for whatever reason (but the controller keeping a link stopping its 'carrier pigeon' program taking effect) meaning that the UAV slowly lost altitude and then did a soft landing.
However i have no idea how technically plausible that idea is