Easy, wait a while for the Chinese to produce an exact replica
Iran claims to have shot down US drone
- Thread starter lucinator
- Start date
The Chinese produce look-a-likes without ever having access to the original... and what if it's the Russian government that gets access. Then how will we know?Easy, wait a while for the Chinese to produce an exact replica
Twinblade
Member
One Su-27 landed safely on a concrete runway after landing gear failed to descend, and was back in air after a couple of months in the workshop.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPnaBN95Npw"]Russian Knights - Su-27 landing without gear, SIAD 1997 - YouTube[/nomedia]
In all probability the flying wing design enabled it to have a low rate of descent and it may have landed on soft earth.
I'm not familiar with Russia's policy on these things, but will Russia want to show off it's own stealth UAV, if the technology is borrowed from this one, in it's military parades & air shows etc. ?The Chinese produce look-a-likes without ever having access to the original... and what if it's the Russian government that gets access. Then how will we know?
The development & flights of the PAK-FA were made public...
Yes. Looks like tape.
Sure disappointed that they have the drone,I think at this point, it looks like they have one. So far I am hoping that all the little gizmos inside have been destroyed when it crash landed and not much can be recovered. I think that is the most important stuff, not sure the airframe is all that. Engine is probably just a civilian business engine jet. As long as Iran doesn't start showing all kinds of new EO or new sat coms, we should be OK.
I don't buy the story that they messed with it, they now are saying it was 150 to 200 km inside Iran when they supposedly took it down.
I also don't buy the story that it has the AESA of the F35 or same RAM as B-2.
I don't buy the story that they messed with it, they now are saying it was 150 to 200 km inside Iran when they supposedly took it down.
I also don't buy the story that it has the AESA of the F35 or same RAM as B-2.
you've got my vote on these observations. there's spin, and then there's spin...
Expert on Iran Drone Claims: ‘Something is Really Amiss Here’ | Offiziere.ch
Interesting take from supposedly someone that works on UAV's in the USA. I have been looking at some of the hi res pictures shown on a couple of websites now. The surface of the drone looks really smooth but I don't know why I keep seeing reports from Iran that they removed all the RAM. Not sure this thing had it in the first place, maybe the LO came from it's small size, shaping, carbonfiber or plastic construction, and smooth surfaces. Upon reading this article from this specialist, I kind of wonder if this wasn't a plant of some sort. Was CIA trying to provoke some kind of hostile response from Iran and then start something more? Were they testing Iran air force to shoot it down? When you look at those close ups, this drone looks really flimsy, sure it survived a crash but it does look "amateurish" to a certain extant.
Also I find it hard to believe that Iran took down the first intrusion to there airspace from RQ170, since we know that a couple of other drones have crashed/shot down. Iran almost are trying to make it sound like US has only one drone which I doubt.
A couple of other comments seem to suggest that another secret drone has been conducting surveillance missions.
As someone else said, it might take a couple of decades before we find out the real story behind this...
Interesting take from supposedly someone that works on UAV's in the USA. I have been looking at some of the hi res pictures shown on a couple of websites now. The surface of the drone looks really smooth but I don't know why I keep seeing reports from Iran that they removed all the RAM. Not sure this thing had it in the first place, maybe the LO came from it's small size, shaping, carbonfiber or plastic construction, and smooth surfaces. Upon reading this article from this specialist, I kind of wonder if this wasn't a plant of some sort. Was CIA trying to provoke some kind of hostile response from Iran and then start something more? Were they testing Iran air force to shoot it down? When you look at those close ups, this drone looks really flimsy, sure it survived a crash but it does look "amateurish" to a certain extant.
Also I find it hard to believe that Iran took down the first intrusion to there airspace from RQ170, since we know that a couple of other drones have crashed/shot down. Iran almost are trying to make it sound like US has only one drone which I doubt.
A couple of other comments seem to suggest that another secret drone has been conducting surveillance missions.
As someone else said, it might take a couple of decades before we find out the real story behind this...
F-106 "CornField Bomber" - ADVrider
This incident could be a parallel to the famous F-106 Cornfield Bomber incident.. that jet landed without it pilot in a cornfield so gently that its engine was still running when discovered..strange things do happen ..
This incident could be a parallel to the famous F-106 Cornfield Bomber incident.. that jet landed without it pilot in a cornfield so gently that its engine was still running when discovered..strange things do happen ..
Is no one else skeptical about why the self destructs (yes, multiple self destructs) failed?
Do we really believe Iran had the ability to hack the flight systems and fly this thing, more or less, to a landing?
I also wonder how Iran feels about a drone being able to sneak so far into their airspace before being discovered? Probably about the same as Pakistan did after hearing about the Bin Laden raid.
I understand the wing damage on the drone video. If it is really one of our drones that landed intact, it is a lot easier to move such a large craft by first removing the wings. A scientist would know that this makes study harder as they would be unable to examine the intact wing, but a soldier in the field would only be intent on recovering it as fast as possible before the soldiers of "Great Satan" began dropping out of the sky.
Still, just some things that do not "feel" right about this incident. Hopefully not just my American arrogance. I'd hate to see all our hard earned technology get handed over for free.
Do we really believe Iran had the ability to hack the flight systems and fly this thing, more or less, to a landing?
I also wonder how Iran feels about a drone being able to sneak so far into their airspace before being discovered? Probably about the same as Pakistan did after hearing about the Bin Laden raid.
I understand the wing damage on the drone video. If it is really one of our drones that landed intact, it is a lot easier to move such a large craft by first removing the wings. A scientist would know that this makes study harder as they would be unable to examine the intact wing, but a soldier in the field would only be intent on recovering it as fast as possible before the soldiers of "Great Satan" began dropping out of the sky.
Still, just some things that do not "feel" right about this incident. Hopefully not just my American arrogance. I'd hate to see all our hard earned technology get handed over for free.
localhost127
Member
Interesting article, and it does sound plausible although articles I've read suggested that loss of the control signal from the operating base would cause a self destruct. That is heresay though, as all specifics on this drone are classified so nothing exists that could confirm the statement other than these "Experts" in the article.
Seems like common sense to me to make a top-secret drone with advanced technology go "boom" when you no longer have control, but hey, I'm just a taxpayer. If Iran did it, then obviously someone goofed on that decision.
As much as I am ready to discount claims from Iran on hacking into a UAV, it does appear that Iran is ready to show us a couple of the drones that crashed the past couple of years, supposedly US and Israel UAVs. If they do show us the previous "wrecks", I would be more inclined to believe that Iran, or more likely Russia/China!, has had the time and importunity to study these remains and come up with counter measures, i.e. jamming, hacking or whatever they found out to be a weakness.
It sure puts a dent in plans to replace manned fighters with unmanned UAVs in only the most permissive environments.
It sure puts a dent in plans to replace manned fighters with unmanned UAVs in only the most permissive environments.
its a reality check for all those numptys who want to save money and abandon milspec redundancy for COTS solutions.It sure puts a dent in plans to replace manned fighters with unmanned UAVs in only the most permissive environments.
in the quest to get UAV's fielded faster and frequently, they (and nearly everyone else as well building anything but Global Hawk) has tried to promote COTS as a way to save money.
You can have COTs, but don't save money by abandoning the milspec issues around redundancy and integrity of whatever is required to be duplexed/multiplexed
The latest rumor out there is that Iran has 7 UAV's in their possession, I think if it is true, it raises some serious questions, probably even a few more:
How long has this been going on?
Are there some models of other classified UAV's we haven't seen?
What are the repercussions on UAV design and especially costs? You just can't assume anymore that you can fly these things and that nothing will happen to them. We pretty much have to go with Russia and China taking these things apart, studying them and developing counter measures. This isn't anymore a possibility but a FACT.
What about PR and potential attack on Iran? USA and Israel will have to factor in some of this stuff if they attack nuke sites in Iran and the PR looks real bad here. If these UAV's have been flying over Iran for years and numerous times with wreckage's to prove it, Iran will convince quite a few people out there that the US and Israel are the bad guys.
To play Devil's Advocate, which country do you trust more? The one whose activities that you have no clue about and might be working towards nuclear weapons? The one who clearly states what their intentions are, who their enemies are, and then drops missiles into an allied sovereign nation regardless of the collateral blood cost? Or the one forcing ethno-religious minorities to live as second or third-class citizens in their own land? I find it difficult to call any of these three nations "good guys." Each one, arguably, stinks far too much to have a claim on virtue or morality.
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The article claims that they changed the GPS coordinates on the UAV, now this presents several problems.
1.Most if not all US drones have settings that allow the done to not receive further updates (the thought of hacking has obviously occurred to the air-force as well as the Iranians)
2. Even if they drone was not set up in that mode, one would need to break the encryption which changes for every mission, not an easy thing to do even for the United States, much less Iran.
3.I'm pretty sure both airfields are at different altitudes so the drone when it attempts to land would either A stall at the altitude of its originating base, or if the Iranian base is higher, plow into the ground.
1. First they jammed the communication downlink to the drone so it reverted to ‘idiot mode’. i.e. return to base and land.
2. They then overpowered the signals being received by the drone from the GPS satellites to convince it that it had arrived at its home base. They did not changing the navigation waypoints programmed into the drone.
3. The landing area was either selected because it resembled the drone’s base or specially constructed to mimic it, and at (nearly) the same elevation. They claim that the bottom of the drone was damaged during landing because the elevation was off by a few meters.
Here is a link to a nice report anticipating this and other problems that are / will severely limit drone capabilities in the near future. (U//FOUO) USAF Operating Next-Generation Remotely Piloted Aircraft for Irregular Warfare | Public Intelligence
I particularly like Key Finding #3 about limited communication bandwidth. It is nice to see my opinion that this is a major limitation on current drone operations confirmed. :hul
gazzzwp
Member
All on the face of it a little worrying and another indication that the USAF seems to be going through a phase of poor effectiveness in dealing with Iran. On the other hand lessons learned now must be of help over the next year or two as Iran gets closer to achieving it's goal of becoming a nuclear military power. That's when we really will need US hardware to be invulnerable. This current phase is only a test phase imho.
The real worry is if in the meantime any serious conflict kicks off between the US and a major power and the US is caught with it's pants down with inefffective technology. If the Iranians can down a drone almost in one piece, then what can Russia do?