Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[gf0012-aust]

She has arrived in Cape Town (see previous post)

Just add, it seem amazing that naval ship could be tracked in near real-time via GPS/AIS over the web with a map overlay.

I used to work on C2 systems and this was a capability which came into existence over a decade and a half ago when folks started to put GPS transponders around and fire GPS data packets over the secured radio.

it works when players participate.

i can tell you that the spanish (as a euro example) and the qld govt (as a local example) have huge problems when people on boats decide that they don't want to be seen.

track management systems such as ICS (COTS), other C2PC derivatives and GCCS in general only work if everyone plays nice.

Its why we still use satellites, UAV's and manned BAMS solutions to validate.

if a ship does not want to be seen, it can disappear and its only then that the other solutions mentioned in the prev sentence show them on the screens.

and yes, I currently work around systems that use C3/C4ISR and track management in complex environments

 

[koxinga]

it works when players participate.

i can tell you that the spanish (as a euro example) and the qld govt (as a local example) have huge problems when people on boats decide that they don't want to be seen.

track management systems such as ICS (COTS), other C2PC derivatives and GCCS in general only work if everyone plays nice.

Its why we still use satellites, UAV's and manned BAMS solutions to validate.

if a ship does not want to be seen, it can disappear and its only then that the other solutions mentioned in the prev sentence show them on the screens.

and yes, I currently work around systems that use C3/C4ISR and track management in complex environments

Yes, I understand the complexities. Without the regulations, it's just a switch away.

That's why in C3/C4SIR, data fusion through multiple sensor feeds is the key and a real bitch, due to accuracy and timing. Track correlation can be a nightmare and this does not include fusing and splitting targets.

It just goes to show how technology can move from a traditional defence domain (e.g mapping, tracking) into a commercial one.

 

[Anixtu]

I notice that she will only turn on her AIS when she is close to islands or port. I though it was standard maritime practice to keep the AIS on whenever using any major sea routes?

AIS is not a ROR (i.e. IRPCS) matter. Warships transmit or keep silent at their own discretion or per national doctrine.

There is no track displayed for open ocean because there are no networked receivers in open ocean to feed the track into the system. You won't find the AIS tracks of other vessels in the areas where you can't see Choules'.

LRIT covers open ocean tracking but that system is not a public broadcast and warships don't normally carry it.

 

[koxinga]

Taken as she docks.

 

[Anixtu]

Looks like she hasn't received any of the externally evident changes applied during Mounts Bay's last refit.

Any indications of plans for modifications to be conducted in Australia?

 

[ThePuss]

Good to see we bought the "Tent", Any idea of how many helo's fit inside?

 

[Sea Toby]

Good to see we bought the "Tent", Any idea of how many helo's fit inside?

One Merlin or smaller helicopter in the temporary hangar although the twin landing zone flight deck can handle helicopters as large as a Chinook...

Keep in mind she was designed to operate with other ships carrying more helicopters. Her assets are her landing craft and her well dock...

A larger permanent hangar can be installed, but she would lose much of her container storage capability forward of the flight deck and cranes... The British built her for shipping duties with the RFA as well without a permanent hangar. She is a LSD, not a LPD...

At the moment she is needed as is, but after the LHDs arrive the government may wish to upgrade her helicopter facility with a larger permanent structure. I doubt whether the government would do so before the LHDs are in service....

 

[koxinga]

Looks like she hasn't received any of the externally evident changes applied during Mounts Bay's last refit.

Any indications of plans for modifications to be conducted in Australia?

No announced plans. But both the Manoora and Kanimbla were generously equipped with 2 x 0.5in Mini-Typhoons, 2 x 20mm Typhoons and 1 x Phalanx each. I won't be surprise that some of these will make it on board at some point in the future.

 

[SASWanabe]

sorry for whining but the title of this thread has been bothering me for weeks should it not be RFA rather than HMS?

 

[gf0012-aust]

sorry for whining but the title of this thread has been bothering me for weeks should it not be RFA rather than HMS?

My Combat Fleets of the World (no longer use Janes as its turned to rubbish) has her as HMS

 

[alexsa]

And her latest track indicates she is just off Cape Town and heading into harbour.

I notice that she will only turn on her AIS when she is close to islands or port. I though it was standard maritime practice to keep the AIS on whenever using any major sea routes?

The system is a collision avoidance system using a VHT frequency. Unless you are reading AIS via sat then it will only be picked up in VHF range. Some governments do this but they do not release the AIS data. The global AIS positions provided on sites is from land based AIS stations and VTIS.

Warships are exmept form SOLAS for for all comercial vesel AIS is suppoosed to be on at all times. the master has the optionsof shutting it down in high risk areas" (i.e. pirate areas.)

 

[ThePuss]

My Combat Fleets of the World (no longer use Janes as its turned to rubbish) has her as HMS

Agreed Jane's isn't what it once was but I suggest the publication you quote is not quite top notch if it's list the Bays under HMS, the correct prefix is RFA.

Cheers,

 

[Chris White]

HMS Largs Bay/HMAS Choules

First post and straight in -

Largs Bay was not a commissioned ship and was operated and manned by the Royal Fleet Auxiliary Service. Her full title and name was thus RFA Largs Bay.

Chris White
Editor RFA Historical Society

 

[ThePuss]

First post and straight in -

Largs Bay was not a commissioned ship and was operated and manned by the Royal Fleet Auxiliary Service. Her full title and name was thus RFA Largs Bay.

Chris White
Editor RFA Historical Society

G'day Chris,

Welcome mate, Hope you become a regular.

Worked with the RFA on a couple of occasions and I have nothing but respect for the "Merchies"

Im sorry for your loss of Largs but we shall put her to good use ,,,Can you confirm that several RFA personnel will will remain onboard for the foreseeable future in an adviseral role?

 

[Chris White]

HMS Largs Bay / HMAS Choules

The crew list on the RFA Community web site has not been changed so I can't advise but there has been a rumour that some of the RFA crew failed to get ashore when she sailed!

Chris

 

[gf0012-aust]

Agreed Jane's isn't what it once was but I suggest the publication you quote is not quite top notch if it's list the Bays under HMS, the correct prefix is RFA.

Cheers,

It's also got it as RFA further in, so I guess theres some editorial issues (same problems Janes has)

Wertheims is still the better reference though.

Janes and Lloyds have gone to rubbish since IHS remasted them.

 

[gf0012-aust]

The crew list on the RFA Community web site has not been changed so I can't advise but there has been a rumour that some of the RFA crew failed to get ashore when she sailed!

Chris

Welcome to the forums mate.

 

[Anixtu]

One Merlin or smaller helicopter in the temporary hangar although the twin landing zone flight deck can handle helicopters as large as a Chinook...

I'd be a little suprised if the TAS door is large enough for Merlin, it always looked a little small, but there is loads of room inside and if it was purely a matter of storage there's room for at least 2 or 3 Lynx sized aircraft in there.

The flight deck was marked out with a single spot. I don't know what Australia's FLYCO doctrine is, but without FLYCO being fitted out (the compartment is there, but empty) the RFA Bays are restricted to a single spot.

 

[koxinga]

And she has left. Pretty short stop.

Location of AUSTRALIAN WARSHIP – Google Maps APRS

 

[ASSAIL]

So much for the HMAS Lemon thread! Obviously no defects. Food fuel and on to Fremantle via the great circle. Makes you wish she had sails.