Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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ngatimozart

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there you go, i just learnt something new - who says old dogs can't?? :)
I second that. Me too. I won't even bother looking up NZ law. It's bound to be similar.

Addition. I have a copy of the 1964 Admiralty Manual of Seamanship Vol 1 which details the "Naval Ceremonial" it goes on to say that
By Admiralty warrant British merchant ships may wear the Blue Ensign, plain and undefaced, if they are commanded by a retired officer of the Royal Navy, or by an office of any of the Naval Reserves provided that the crew includes a certain number of officers and men from any of the Naval Reserves
 
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Anixtu

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I presume that the RAN is similar to the RNZN in customs which we both got from the RN. If that is the case, The Jack (National Flag) is flown from the Jack Stay (on the bow) when alongside or at anchor. So the Choules being alongside is flying the correct flag. The White Ensign is always flown from the stay the stern whilst alongside or at anchor. As soon the ship is under way i.e., sailing then both these flags are hauled down and the White Ensign is flown from the mainmast. However in Choules case she cannot wear the RAN White Ensign until she is formally commissioned into RAN service so she will fly the Blue Ensign which is the Australian national flag. Now I think that's right because I have done it from memory and I had that drummed in over 20 years ago.
Jack staff, rather than stay. A jackstay is entirely different and in the naval context is most commonly a line run between two vessels and tensioned to carry loads - see jackstay methods of replenishment at sea.

The shifting of ensign from harbour position on the ensign staff down aft to the sea position at the mainmast commonly takes place on leaving harbour, or leaving pilotage waters, rather than immediately on departing the berth. But different navies may have different routines so YMMV. I've seen commercial vessels flying jacks whilst underway, possibly never hauling them down. Makes a handy ersatz anemometer when berthing.
 

aussienscale

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Jack staff, rather than stay. A jackstay is entirely different and in the naval context is most commonly a line run between two vessels and tensioned to carry loads - see jackstay methods of replenishment at sea.

The shifting of ensign from harbour position on the ensign staff down aft to the sea position at the mainmast commonly takes place on leaving harbour, or leaving pilotage waters, rather than immediately on departing the berth. But different navies may have different routines so YMMV. I've seen commercial vessels flying jacks whilst underway, possibly never hauling them down. Makes a handy ersatz anemometer when berthing.
The moving of the AWE& ANF in the RAN takes place at the exact moment the last or first line is let go or slipped onto the bollard ashore or when your anchor is off the bed, IE: your chain is straight up and down. And just a little nit pick from a previous post, the sea ensign does not fly at the top of the main mast, that is reserved for your commisioning pennant :)

Also not sure about Choules being reffered to as ADF SHIP ? Has this changed ? or is it the usual thing that this Government and Minister do not know what they are talking about, have no respect whatsoever for tradition, and just make shit up as they go along ? It is really starting to erk me that they think they can just change tradition to suit their dire political needs
 

Abraham Gubler

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Also not sure about Choules being reffered to as ADF SHIP ? Has this changed ? or is it the usual thing that this Government and Minister do not know what they are talking about, have no respect whatsoever for tradition, and just make shit up as they go along ? It is really starting to erk me that they think they can just change tradition to suit their dire political needs
This may be something along the lines of a USNS. A name prefix for a DoD owned ship that isn't a commissioned vessel. With increasing moves to commercial outsourcing this could be something that Russel Hill came up with for these types of ships. Really it should be commissioned now in the UK but the desire to have a party in front of the TV news in WA means it has to sail around the world as an Aust. Govt. ship. Not a usual problem when Nuship Toowoomba is finishing its sea trials and then popping into Brisbane River for a commissioning ceremony.
 

ngatimozart

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The moving of the AWE& ANF in the RAN takes place at the exact moment the last or first line is let go or slipped onto the bollard ashore or when your anchor is off the bed, IE: your chain is straight up and down. And just a little nit pick from a previous post, the sea ensign does not fly at the top of the main mast, that is reserved for your commisioning pennant :)
I stand corrected. Like I said I was doing it from memory and I've had quite a few sleeps since then. :) Methinks we've really exhausted the subject and dragged out all the thoroughly boring bits.
 

Abraham Gubler

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Slow news day? A bob each way on a bit of creative license. Our lot are getting lots of practice looking for sunken containers, or parts thereof around, Tauranga.
I would also imagine the threat level on a seamine campaign against Australian ports is a very low level at the moment.
 

icelord

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Minehunters still head out to JB every month to do tests on the simulated minefield around the bay, as well as what they can while sailing up and down the coast.
You'll find the hydros do the survey of harbours, and i can confirm that they dont come south to often as the hydrographic dept utilise civilian survey ships.
i can confirm two MHCs were mothballed, but that was done nearly 3 year ago as there was little use for the boats, while we had issues with the Armidales they went up to allow someone out to patrol, but there slow speeds did little to help them.
Considering they are meant to be replaced starting 2015, not many people would seem them as priority at this point in time over other projects.

Minehunting is one of those things you need to have, but rarely have to use...
 

StevoJH

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I stand corrected. Like I said I was doing it from memory and I've had quite a few sleeps since then. :) Methinks we've really exhausted the subject and dragged out all the thoroughly boring bits.
Nope, you haven't talked about battle ensigns and signal flags yet....
 

ngatimozart

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Nope, you haven't talked about battle ensigns and signal flags yet....
Hang on I'll give you the reference for the signal flags .............. I'll' have to look it up because I was not a bunting tosser. Oh bugger it .. that's why we have radios and cellphones these days :) Here is the formal reference: Signal Flags and Codes, Pennants, Personal Flags, Ensigns, Corresponding Ranks in: Royal Navy Admiralty (1964). Admiralty Manual of Seamanship (Vol. 1 B.R. 67(1)). London, UK: Her Majesty's Stationery Office, Section in between pp358 & 359. AFAIK Battle Ensigns are the largest flags carried aboard and multiple ensigns are worn in battle usually from the main masts.
 

Pusser01

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The moving of the AWE& ANF in the RAN takes place at the exact moment the last or first line is let go or slipped onto the bollard ashore or when your anchor is off the bed, IE: your chain is straight up and down. And just a little nit pick from a previous post, the sea ensign does not fly at the top of the main mast, that is reserved for your commisioning pennant :)

Also not sure about Choules being reffered to as ADF SHIP ? Has this changed ? or is it the usual thing that this Government and Minister do not know what they are talking about, have no respect whatsoever for tradition, and just make shit up as they go along ? It is really starting to erk me that they think they can just change tradition to suit their dire political needs
Signal was released by CN so assume he made the decision.
Also the AWE normally isn't transferred from stern to main mast until the ship is past the last nav marker/buoy out of the port, vice versa for coming in. Usually about the time "special sea dutymen" is piped.
Cheers
 

brolgaboy

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Slow news day? A bob each way on a bit of creative license. Our lot are getting lots of practice looking for sunken containers, or parts thereof around, Tauranga.
Very, very close to the mark.:dance

Discussed in the last senate inquiry although this time nothing has changed..............................
 

ThePuss

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:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy

Muuuuummmm I don't want to talk about flags no more !
 

Abraham Gubler

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:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy:sleepy

Muuuuummmm I don't want to talk about flags no more !
The best thing about flags on some navy ships is they have a really cool deck above the bridge which is great when you are seariding to get a good view from.
 

icelord

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AFAIK Battle Ensigns are the largest flags carried aboard and multiple ensigns are worn in battle usually from the main masts.
They look awesome hanging from an FFG, but our FFH cant fly them off the mast so off an outer instead. Just not the same...

The best thing about flags on some navy ships is they have a really cool deck above the bridge which is great when you are seariding to get a good view from.
FFG has the GDP above the bridge, best seat in the house coming into sydney harbour for Sydneys Freedom of Entry:D
 

ThePuss

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Boy's all this flag stuff is :eek:fftopic

Start a new thread called "Naval Flag Fan Boys R Us" if you like :D
 

alexsa

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This may be something along the lines of a USNS. A name prefix for a DoD owned ship that isn't a commissioned vessel. With increasing moves to commercial outsourcing this could be something that Russel Hill came up with for these types of ships. Really it should be commissioned now in the UK but the desire to have a party in front of the TV news in WA means it has to sail around the world as an Aust. Govt. ship. Not a usual problem when Nuship Toowoomba is finishing its sea trials and then popping into Brisbane River for a commissioning ceremony.
USNS ships are still "commercial". Warships that are not commisioned do not present a problem legislatively provided they are owned and/or operated by the navy. If not it gets tricky.
 

icelord

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just to point out, went for a run past Waterhen today, theres only two minehunters in...i gather the two that are mothballed, so im guessing they are at sea doing training...something they havent done according to the media...
 
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