Did Russia win the Chechen war?
- Thread starter Kevin123
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Russia's political and military objectives have been met. It has retained Chechnya within the Russian Federation, the threat posed by insurgents or terrorists [it depends on who you ask] has been largely eliminated and it has a 'friendly' government in place. And just as importantly, it has persuaded key Muslim countries not to provide any aid to those who oppose Russian rule in Chechnya.
What happens in the long run is a different matter.
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Try to elaborate. It would be interesting to see. Whether they won or not is contingent on what objectives were set as part of the conditions for victory.
Sorry to take this a little off-topic with informaton that might be outdated & from a source that is not always 100% spot on correct, but in the latest edition of World's Most Dangerous Places, Chechnya is regarded as one of the most dangerous places on the planet.
Crime is rampant, the place is run more by the mafia and rebels. Although Russia has bombed the place back to the stone age ( in some places literally lol ) the Chechen separatists still pose a very serious threat. And the Russian soldiers sent into Chechnya are reported to be completely lacking morale, underfed, underpaid, suffered serious casualties etc.
It doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture of the current situation lol. But then again, this is a journalist's ( albeit world renowned no-nonsense in-the-frontlines adventurer who has a very neutral point of view of everything ) POV. Reliable source, but not always correct all the time
Crime is rampant, the place is run more by the mafia and rebels. Although Russia has bombed the place back to the stone age ( in some places literally lol ) the Chechen separatists still pose a very serious threat. And the Russian soldiers sent into Chechnya are reported to be completely lacking morale, underfed, underpaid, suffered serious casualties etc.
It doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture of the current situation lol. But then again, this is a journalist's ( albeit world renowned no-nonsense in-the-frontlines adventurer who has a very neutral point of view of everything ) POV. Reliable source, but not always correct all the time
Irrespective of whether corruption is rife or whether the Chechian government in power is a ''puppet' government, the fact remains that Russia has met its political and military objectives -
1. Chechnya has been retained as part of the Russian Federation.
2. Apart from pin prick attacks, the insurgents are not posing any major threat to Russia or the Chechian government that has been put in place.
3. Virtually the whole world, for various reasons, has accepted that Chechnya is a part of Russia or is keeping silent on the matter. You and I may disagree with Russia's actions in the past, but Chechnya has been retained as a part of Russia, whether the Chechians like it or not. Aid from Muslim countries has dwindled, the same goes for volunteers.
Most of Grozny, from what I have read, has been rebuilt and it is no longer a sea of rubble.
The calibre of Russian troops, whether army or MVD, has nothing to do with whether Russia has achieved its political and military objectives.
Thanks, STURM. I stand corrected.
Although I have read about & watched on the news reports of Chechens still sending their fighters to fight alongside the Taliban in Afghanistan & in some cases in Pakistan's NWFP. basically wherever muslim fundamentalists are in need of reinforcements for their "jihad".
Although I have read about & watched on the news reports of Chechens still sending their fighters to fight alongside the Taliban in Afghanistan & in some cases in Pakistan's NWFP. basically wherever muslim fundamentalists are in need of reinforcements for their "jihad".
http://www.russiablog.org/Grozny-2008.jpg
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/02/21/grozny460.jpg
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/09/11/world/11chechnya-600.jpg
How Ramzan Kadyrov Tried—and Failed—to Save Chechnya with Soccer – Miriam Elder
Quite impressive I must say. The place no longer looks like Stalingrad in 1945. Quite a bit of effort has been Putin it seems
( yeah pun was intended ).Seriously though, although it seems like things are on their way to being stable, I wonder what effect this rebuilding has on local crime in the province & Chechen muslim radicals fighting their jihad in other nations...
Chechenya, and other N. Caucus republics, generally receive a fairly large amount of federal funding. So does the Far East. Central Russia on the other hand contributes more then it receives from the federal budget. It's been quite an issue in public discussion lately. Then again, starting in about 2012-13, Chechnya is set to stop receiving the additional reconstruction funding it's been enjoying the last decade.
Here are some interesting photosets in Grozny.
A Trip To Grozny, Chechnya | English Russia
Russian Federal Forces in Chechnya | English Russia
One Day In Grozny | English Russia
Here are some interesting photosets in Grozny.
A Trip To Grozny, Chechnya | English Russia
Russian Federal Forces in Chechnya | English Russia
One Day In Grozny | English Russia
Thanks, Feanor
So, in addition to Chechnya, can we expect S. Ossetia & Abkhazia to get such funding to rebuild it's infrastructure ?
And, in addition to Chechnya ( which IMHO can no longer call itself a republic ), do other states in the are with friendly ties to Russia & a troubled past ( i'm thinking of states like Serbia) also recieve monetary support from Russia ?
Edit : interesting that the situation in such a volatile zone such as caucasus/balkans seems to be stabilizing itself...
Can you elaborate a bit on that please ? Why no funding to the former Georgian provinces ? Because of concerns that it might fall back into Georgian hands ?
Beatmaster
New Member
Well the Chechenya war was a dragging conflict where "normal" army value's and human values did not count.
Both sides where ruthless and violated alot of human rights / war protocols.
Short said the war was hard and dirty where most "good" persons have turned either in a war machine with no values, a mental wreck or a person in a coffin.
A uncle of mine us to be there for humanitarian reasons (Red Cross) and judging from the stories the russians have been in control most of the war partly due their military superiority and size/fire power.
However Chechen rebels (Or how you wanna call them) where able to land very painfull and nasty strikes on the russian armed forces and where able to actually hurt the russians badly.
The kremlin will not admit it but its fair and save to say that the Chechen war was turning into a second afganistan this was one of the main reasons why the russian armed forces where using ever increasing force and ruthless to suppress a escalating region.
Because even with the rebels out numbered and outgunned the rebels where able to actually make a stand (Thx to support from the outside) but still regardless what we all think and say but the rebels did put up a hell of a fight.
So yes political russia achieved it goals and where able to sort of end this war.
However i believe its save to say that this particular war was one of the darker pages in the russian history given the ruthlessness and unexpected force that was needed to fight of the rebels. And the cost to do this might be bigger then it seems as there are alot of people who died or got injured in that war on both sides.
Keep in mind that nearly 100% of the infrastructure and nearly the whole Chechen region was litterally bombed back to the stone age.
Accoording to old and outdated online sources 8 out of 10 houses and buildings got destroyed region wide....which indicates that this war was alot harder and alot more intens then the media was able to show.
The exact death toll from this conflict is unknown. Unofficial estimates range from 25,000 to 50,000 dead or missing, mostly civilians in Chechnya. Russian casualties are over 5,200 (official Russian casualty figures) and are about 11,000 according to the Committee of Soldiers' Mothers.
Cheers
Both sides where ruthless and violated alot of human rights / war protocols.
Short said the war was hard and dirty where most "good" persons have turned either in a war machine with no values, a mental wreck or a person in a coffin.
A uncle of mine us to be there for humanitarian reasons (Red Cross) and judging from the stories the russians have been in control most of the war partly due their military superiority and size/fire power.
However Chechen rebels (Or how you wanna call them) where able to land very painfull and nasty strikes on the russian armed forces and where able to actually hurt the russians badly.
The kremlin will not admit it but its fair and save to say that the Chechen war was turning into a second afganistan this was one of the main reasons why the russian armed forces where using ever increasing force and ruthless to suppress a escalating region.
Because even with the rebels out numbered and outgunned the rebels where able to actually make a stand (Thx to support from the outside) but still regardless what we all think and say but the rebels did put up a hell of a fight.
So yes political russia achieved it goals and where able to sort of end this war.
However i believe its save to say that this particular war was one of the darker pages in the russian history given the ruthlessness and unexpected force that was needed to fight of the rebels. And the cost to do this might be bigger then it seems as there are alot of people who died or got injured in that war on both sides.
Keep in mind that nearly 100% of the infrastructure and nearly the whole Chechen region was litterally bombed back to the stone age.
Accoording to old and outdated online sources 8 out of 10 houses and buildings got destroyed region wide....which indicates that this war was alot harder and alot more intens then the media was able to show.
The exact death toll from this conflict is unknown. Unofficial estimates range from 25,000 to 50,000 dead or missing, mostly civilians in Chechnya. Russian casualties are over 5,200 (official Russian casualty figures) and are about 11,000 according to the Committee of Soldiers' Mothers.
Cheers
South Ossetia received, and continues to receive, obscene quantities of Russian aid. Lots of it goes into the pockets of the local bureaucrats. Abkhazia doesn't receive much because it wasn't flattened by Georgian artillery and Russian airstrikes in 2008.
What the hell has that got to do with anything? Anyway Russia got massarced by the Chechens in the first war. But in the second war Russia finally grew a brain and fought with tactics against the Chechens and win the war after flatting the Chechen cities into rubble.
Russia could have probably finished the first war successfully if certain politicians hadn't been eager to finish the war. There's a book called "My War" "Моя Война" by General Troshev, who participated in both wars. It gives you a big picture look at both wars, that might be helpful.
Relax, kid. I just wanted you to Elaborate a bit on your one liner reply.
This is a thread on Russia's war in Chechnya, so certain points of discussion on Russian foreign policy in the surrounding area are valid
The Mod Team will establish what discussion points are valid....
Some of you need to settle down a bit.
Ratchet back the anger and stay focused on the topic, not each other.
Ratchet back the anger and stay focused on the topic, not each other.
Yeah right. It wouldn't have made a difference at all. Especially considering the shitty tactics deployed by the depleted Russian military against high moraled Chechen fighters. If it wasn't for the destroyed economy and poor fighting tactics Russia would've stomped out the rebellion with ease. It had nothing to do with politics or foreign policy.
Admin. See previous from me. Change your tone - last warning
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What's your point? I've offered first hand source info that you've clearly ignored. Here's a free copy of the book, in Russia. I'll leave it up to you to use an online translator, or find a copy of the book in english.
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The problems of the rebellion run much deeper, and Russia is at fault not for failing to stomp out the rebellion, but for turning a nationalist liberal Chechen rebellion into a radical Islamic insurgency. This is why the resistance was so persistent and well supported internationally.