Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

"Project of Combat System for Trimaran Missile Attack Craft for the Indonesian Navy"

from here

ditjenpdn.kemendag.go.id/informasi/profil_perusahaan.php?halaman=22

any idea what this is about?

I have put the concept on post No 86 (page 6) on this thread. This's the concept based on design from Local Boat Builder in here call North Sea boat. The company owned by a Swedish national but incorporated in here.

The info still few on the development. There's some report that the boat's near ready for launch (still on prototype design), however no new news coming out yet.

 

[koxinga]

I am aware of that project with PT Lundin/North. But this one is indicated as PT. INDADI SETIA with CHINA SHIPBUILDING & OFFSHORE INTERNATIONAL CO.

They seem to have changed the website now after my last visit afew days ago. Now it is listed as "Indonesian Navy ship project in the territory Indonesia for the Indonesian Navy"

 

[Ananda]

I am aware of that project with PT Lundin/North. But this one is indicated as PT. INDADI SETIA with CHINA SHIPBUILDING & OFFSHORE INTERNATIONAL CO.

They seem to have changed the website now after my last visit afew days ago. Now it is listed as "Indonesian Navy ship project in the territory Indonesia for the Indonesian Navy"

Well in that case, sorry never heard that. So far, the only Trimaran Patrol Boat Project that being released by TNI-AL and Mindef info only the Lundin/North Sea project.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Some months ago, the navy received the Clurit, it has a gun in the front.
Does anyone know what type of (20mm?) this is? (First Picture)
Is it an Rheinmettal or a modified F2 (second picture)?

 

[Ananda]

Some months ago, the navy received the Clurit, it has a gun in the front.
Does anyone know what type of (20mm?) this is? (First Picture)
Is it an Rheinmettal or a modified F2 (second picture)?

I believe it's still an Old Oerlikon FF types. It's interim gun anyway since the main gun supposed to be Russian AK-630 type CIWS. According some report it will be fitt in later this year or early next year.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Thanks Ananda!

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

S. Korea close to clinching Indonesia submarine deal

2011-08-26 19:51

Defense Minister Kim Kwan-jin is to visit Indonesia early next month to seal a $1 billion deal that would result in South Korea’s first submarine exports.

If the deal is secured, Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine, which is likely to be chosen as the preferred bidder by the Indonesian government, will sign a memorandum of understanding to sell three 1,400-ton submarines to the Southeast Asian country, ministry officials said.

Kim will accompany nine Korean defense contractors including Daewoo from Sept. 7-9 and hold talks with his Indonesian counterpart Purnomo Yusgiantoro on the country’s modernization project for their naval fleet.

The $1.08 billion submarine acquisition program, regarded as a goldmine for defense contractors, brought about a fierce bidding war in which Daewoo reportedly beat German and French firms.

“The Type 209 submarine, which the Indonesian government is willing to purchase, was first developed by the Germans in the early 1970s and Korea bought the technology license to produce it in the beginning stage. France is well known for its welding techniques. The fact that Korea has beaten such strong rivals in the preferred bidder race is significant in that the country will join the ranks of submarine exporters. It also will brighten the prospect of selling more subs to other East Asian nations,” the JoongAng Ilbo newspaper quoted a defense industry official as saying.

Complete article:http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20110826000596

It looks like our navy will receive again two Type 209, after the first two in 1980, 31 years ago! :drunk
$1,08 billion i way too expensive for just 2 such obsolete subs. These two subs are absolutely not an improvement compared to the 2 Scorpenes from our neighbours...

 

[Ananda]

It looks like our navy will receive again two Type 209, after the first two in 1980, 31 years ago! :drunk
$1,08 billion i way too expensive for just 2 such obsolete subs. These two subs are absolutely not an improvement compared to the 2 Scorpenes from our neighbours...

Well, according to HDW, the last version of 209 have lot improvement. Also the deal included the supporting infrastructur.

 

[STURM]

Double post, apologies.

 

[STURM]

IThese two subs are absolutely not an improvement compared to the 2 Scorpenes from our neighbours...

We don't know that for sure. The improved version may have a CMS just as capable as the Scorpene and may be just as quiet. And it will definitely have faster tops that the SUT torps operated by the Chakra and Nanggala, comprable to the Blackshark operated from the Scorpene which has a speed of 50 knots. Can the improved 209 be fitted with an AIP fuel cell module at a later date and can it be integrated with a missile? The Indian Navy in the 1990's faced problems in attempting to integrate Exocet to its 209 because it seems the French refused to help.

Then again the main question to ask is given that HDW is pushing its 214, has it collaborated with Daewoo in improving the 209 version that is on offer to the TNI-AL or has Daewoo done its own improvements? Another question I'm curious about is can Daewoo supply all the spares or will certain spares still have to be sourced from HDW? The RMN had previously been offered 209s from Daewoo and Turkey's Golcuk shipyard and personnel had even trained in Turkey and participated in a routine Turkish 209 patrol in the Black Sea.

 

[Ananda]

Then again the main question to ask is given that HDW is pushing its 214, has it collaborated with Daewoo in improving the 209 version that is on offer to the TNI-AL or has Daewoo done its own improvements? Another question I'm curious about is can Daewoo supply all the spares or will certain spares still have to be sourced from HDW? The RMN had previously been offered 209s from Daewoo and Turkey's Golcuk shipyard and personnel had even trained in Turkey and participated in a routine Turkish 209 patrol in the Black Sea.

Well, the Portugese subs still call Type 209, but by dimension, appearences and performance close to 214. Daewoo it self already has licensed for 209 and 214. But I agree with the question 'what is the position does HDW it self' apear to aim. In the begining Daewoo seems got support from HDW, but now HDW seems going to team up with the Turks (Golcuk) in which both of them already had lincense for 209 and 214.

For me, I think it will end up to what support each party will provide to help PAL in preparing their own Submarine manufacturing facility and capability. One thing for sure (seems now) that whether 209 or 214 (or 209 with apprearences of 214 like the Portugese ones), Indonesian Navy will stay with German design (just like before). It's just whether it will come from Turkey or South Korea.

In my mind HDW will still benefit one way or another since both Golcuk and Daewoo will still depend for some sub systems from HDW. PAL it self eventhough aim to have the capability like Golcuk or Daewoo by the end ofthis decade, it will also like the other two need some assitances from HDW. I think this show the shrewdness of HDW strategy. By providing design to several nations, they just make sure that their design have the best chances to dominate the market.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Lets hope that if we will receive Type 209, it will be extensively updated/modified versions, and not some Type 209/1300B with just little improvements.

I've also a question about this article from februari:


Indonesia to get Brunei patrol ships

Saturday, February 26, 2011

BRUNEI plans to grant Indonesia patrol vessels KDB Waspada and KDB Pejuang for military training as part of efforts to promote the expansion of defence ties.

Complete article:
http://www.bt.com.bn/news-national/2011/02/26/indonesia-get-brunei-patrol-ships

Whats the status of this plan?
According to the Defender magazine these vessels are worn out.....

BTW, im just know now that the Bendeharu Class are built by PT Pal and delivered in 1991 (P01 Benderharu, P22 Maharajalela, P23 Kemaindera).

 

[Ananda]

Lets hope that if we will receive Type 209, it will be extensively updated/modified versions, and not some Type 209/1300B with just little improvements.

I've also a question about this article from februari:


Indonesia to get Brunei patrol ships

Saturday, February 26, 2011

BRUNEI plans to grant Indonesia patrol vessels KDB Waspada and KDB Pejuang for military training as part of efforts to promote the expansion of defence ties.

Complete article:
Indonesia to get Brunei patrol ships | The Brunei Times

Whats the status of this plan?
According to the Defender magazine these vessels are worn out.....

Those two vessels already in Indonesian fleet by April this year. Named KRI Badau and KRI Sawalaku. They already reconditioned, and from I heard they also being reconditioned in PT. PAL further, after joining the fleet (the transfered also included the inventory of spare-parts that deemed they still viable vessels up until 2020)

Seems the plan for those two vessels are as stop gap until Locally made Fast Missile Boats (FAC-M) (like KCR 40) already fully entering the fleet (so far from the plan of 20 to 30 KCR 40, only one already in the Fleet KRI Clurit).
It's seems they will be maintained together with Korean build Mandau class FAC-M (both Pejuang and Mandau class used Exocet MM-38), and will be phased out at same time (plan 2020, when all locally made FAC-M already in service). Those ex Brunei boats and Mandau class FAC-M come from similar era.

TNI-AL will standardize the locally FAC-M with Chinese C-705 or C-802. Whille Mandau still using MM-38, and it's heard altough those ex-Brunai vessels come without the missiles, but TNI-AL still have inventory of MM-38 that can be retrofitted to those vessels.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Thanks Ananda!
BTW, i've found a picture of KRI Badau dan KRI Salawaku...
(Taken by Antara)

 

[Ananda]

MoU For joint Submarine Manufacturing

From Antara News Agency with Google Translate : Indonesia-Korsel kukuhkan kerja sama pertahanan - AntaraNews.com

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Indonesia and South Korea agreed to strengthen defense cooperation between the two countries.

Inauguration of defense cooperation between the two countries stipulated in the memorandum of understanding signed by the Director General of Potential Defense Policy Hutabarat and Director of the Bureau of Defence of South Korea Lee Yong Dae on Friday.

The signing of the MoU was witnessed by Defence Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro and South Korean Defense Minister Kim Kwan-jin.

"In addition to the defense industry that had been running it with a memorandum of understanding that the existing cooperation could be improved and expanded, such as education, and exchange of officers," said Defense Ministry spokesman Hartind Asrin.

Related to defense industry cooperation, both countries agreed to held the production together with the transfer of technology as in the shipbuilding type "Landing Platform Dock" (LPD) and submarines between PAL and the Daewoo Shipbuilding.

Well seems Daewoo wins. Actually they already had upper hand, since the existing Type 209/1300 were upgraded by them. Unconfirmed report (a,k,a rumours) circulating after the MoU, that Daewoo wins because they're going to transferred their Type 209 manufacturing facility on stages to PT. PAL. Daewoo it self will concentrate with Type 214.

I don't know how much support though HDW will provide, since they (HDW) seems more willing to support Turkey for 209 sell to Indonesia. Even though some local defense forum still hoping the sell will be Type 214, but without HDW support, I do not think it will happen, since Daewoo still need substantial support from HDW on 214, while they already gain technology for 209.

I believe, PAL wants to play safe, they already have experience conducting overhaul for existing 209, thus manufacturing 209/1400 (type that Daewoo offering), will be more in line on the learning curve.

This is not for the ambitions on having the most advance submarine in the neighborhood, this is the ambition on having capabilities to build Submarine locally while still having technology that not far behind with other Subs in the neighborhood.

 

[Ananda]

More Info on The Submarine

From Jurnal Nasional Website with Google Translate: Jurnas.com: Kapal Selam TNI AL Paling Mutakhir

To support the implementation of the tasks of the Indonesian National Army Navy (TNI AL) in securing the territorial waters of Indonesia will have the most advanced weapons systems. The submersible is made ​​in South Korea conducted in the form of Indonesia-South Korea joint production.

"The submarine is currently the most advanced type 214. Navy will integrate with the body of the ship taking 1,500 tons of 209 types, but with 214 weapons systems," said Chief of Naval Staff (KSAL) Admiral Soeparno told reporters after attending a memorial ceremony rehearsal HUT TNI Headquarters (HQ) Cilangkap TNI in Jakarta, Monday (3 / 10).

KSAL added that Indonesia has had the type 209 submarine weighs 1300 ton.KSAL said, the current ability of the domestic defense industry has not been able to build submarines. Therefore the procurement of submarines is carried out under a joint production with the South Korea. Cooperation that will result in three units of this submarine will be conducted in both countries.

Construction of the first submarine performed in Korea along with shipping experts from Indonesia to study the technology. "The second half-time by both countries, and a new third built in Indonesia," explains KSAL.

Well basically:

1. The deal will be for 3 Subs (amounted around USD 1.1 bio)
2. The First subs build in Daewoo facility, Second subs will be build by Daewoo, but final assambly will be in PT. PAL Facility in Surabaya, whille the Third ones will be build entirely in Surabaya (with kits from Daewoo).
3. The Subs will be Type 209-1500 but with technology from 214.

This arrangement I believe is similar with what Pakistan has done when they procured 3 Agosta class subs from French, in which the Third ones build in Karachi.

The choice of using Type 209 frames/body is not surprising since I believe Daewoo already very comfortable with 209, while PAL it self also already have experiences on conducting repair and maintenance on the existing 209-1300. How much of 214 technology will be inducted on this 209 subs, will remain to be seen.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

How much of 214 technology will be inducted on this 209 subs, will remain to be seen.

Exactly...
"Kapal selam yang paling canggih saat ini tipe 214. TNI AL akan memadukannya dengan mengambil bodi kapal tipe 209 1.500 ton, tapi dengan sistem persenjataan 214,"
How capable is Deawoo in installing Type 214 equipmennt and weaponsystems in a 209/1500?
For example, the Type 214 is equipped with an integrated DBQS-40 sonar system which has a cylindrical array for passive medium-frequency detection; a TAS-3 low-frequency towed array sonar; FAS-3 flank array sonar for low / medium-frequency detection; passive ranging sonar; and hostile sonar intercept system. I expect the DBQS is specially made for the hull shape of the 214. BTW, fits 214's AIP system in a Type 209?

 

[Ananda]

Local Build LCU for Makasar LPD

From Poskota with Google Translate:

JAKARTA (Pos Kota) - Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Soeparno, SE onboard the landing craft units (LCU) with a booster water jet machines are made ​​with the type designation warships landing platform dock (LPD) are tested in Kolinlamil, Friday (21/10).
In these experimental activities, participating onboard in the LCU Asrena TNI Navy Chief Rear Sumartono, Aspam TNI Navy Chief Rear Ir. Putu Yuli Adnyana, Asops TNI Navy Chief Rear Bowo Day, M.Sc., Pangarmatim Laksda TNI Supandi Ade, SE, Agung Pramono Pangkolinlamil Laksda TNI, SH, M. Hum., Dankormar Maj. Gen. (Mar) Alfan Baharudin, Kadismatal, Kadisadal, Kadislaikmatal, Kasarmabar, Kaskolinlamil and Danlantamal III.

LCU tested is a prototype of domestic production to be ordered by the Navy and is planned to be placed in four types of warships of the Navy's LPD with many advantages such as using a water jet driving engine so it can maneuver in a relatively narrow area, can be operated in waters shallow, carrying capacity 100 pesonel or 26 tons, speed 40 knots per mile empty sea / Nautical mile, while the maximum speed of 28 knots, no noise, low vibration, made ​​of aluminum,

Local made LCU with water jet propulsion to be used specifically for Makasar LPD and probably for future PAL build LST.

Attached pictures for the LCU from Poskota.

 

[pasukangeraktjepat]

KCR Trimaran in sea trial

From local military forum, an old picture of Fast Missile Boat (Kapal Cepat Rudal/KCR) Trimaran in a sea trial. Escorted by a Parchim Class Corvette of Indonesian Navy.

I can't verify this picture, but i think it wasn't a photoshopped image...

 

[koxinga]

Read the Indonesian forums further. It has been discussed and most agreed it is a fake.