PRC Peoples Liberation Army Navy

On Foch & Clemenceau? I thought they were Mitchell Brown BS5 - though I don't know if they were made in the UK or France. It was reported that Brazil bought the defunct BS4 catapult from Veinticinco de Mayo, to cannibalise for parts for Sao Paulo.
 
swerve said:
On Foch & Clemenceau? I thought they were Mitchell Brown BS5 - though I don't know if they were made in the UK or France. It was reported that Brazil bought the defunct BS4 catapult from Veinticinco de Mayo, to cannibalise for parts for Sao Paulo.
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i was under the distinct impression that fochs upgrade (another 6000lb capacity) was lic built

unfort my wertheims is 1100km away and my access to janes via work is not giving me much joy
 
Dam I was 1 week off..

They seem to be very keen to get it moving. I wonder how long before they start operating fighter aircraft off her.
 
Belesari said:
Ok you get a beer and hotwings.

Or a cookie and milk as you may wish.
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well, if you'd listened to all the fanbois at the time they were predicting the end of western bluewater fleets and USN carriers due to being ponderous moving targets.

I guess the chinese want their own ponderous moving targets.

damn shame that their ASW is still cold war quality.

I'd rather be a USN carrier with nuke subs riding shotgun than a chinese carrier with their current nukes....

it will be interesting to see how all these kids now start defending carrier doctrine now that china "formally" has floated her own

they'll be twisting and turning the spin faster than Baryshnikov on opening night.
 
gf0012-aust said:
well, if you'd listened to all the fanbois at the time they were predicting the end of western bluewater fleets and USN carriers due to being ponderous moving targets.

I guess the chinese want their own ponderous moving targets.

damn shame that their ASW is still cold war quality.

I'd rather be a USN carrier with nuke subs riding shotgun than a chinese carrier with their current nukes....

it will be interesting to see how all these kids now start defending carrier doctrine now that china "formally" has floated her own

they'll be twisting and turning the spin faster than Baryshnikov on opening night.
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More targets. How glorious. Anything other than a fellow gunner is a target. I note the media keep showing images of the Varyag with it's flight deck still cluttered. Funny when plenty images around of it with nice clean flight deck and looking very tiddly. One thing about the Russians they do know how to design ships with beautiful lines. They fair love the clipper bow design and curves & I for one don't blame them.
 
ngatimozart said:
One thing about the Russians they do know how to design ships with beautiful lines. They fair love the clipper bow design and curves & I for one don't blame them.
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I must confess I do have a soft spot for soviet/russian clipper designs, if they'd ever managed to build QC into their designs they would have been something to crow about.

having seen the inside of a few russian subs and aircraft, those crewmen deserved a medal for even getting inside. agricultural is an understatement. Their big GM battle cruisers were very sexy bits of kit though...
 
gf0012-aust said:
well, if you'd listened to all the fanbois at the time they were predicting the end of western bluewater fleets and USN carriers due to being ponderous moving targets.

I guess the chinese want their own ponderous moving targets.

damn shame that their ASW is still cold war quality.

I'd rather be a USN carrier with nuke subs riding shotgun than a chinese carrier with their current nukes....

it will be interesting to see how all these kids now start defending carrier doctrine now that china "formally" has floated her own

they'll be twisting and turning the spin faster than Baryshnikov on opening night.
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The kids will be yelling that China has / will have (and US and anybody else doesn't have) super-duper carrier killer ballistic missile, don't you know? :D And that China will have naval J-20 super stealth plane that will destroy F-35, SHornets, etc. Or that China will destroy everybody else with supersonic anti-ship missiles, and everybody else has lousy subsonic ones that suck...

There are many ways to spin this, as you've surely seen :D
 
Humming Drone said:
The kids will be yelling that China has / will have (and US and anybody else doesn't have) super-duper carrier killer ballistic missile, don't you know? :D And that China will have naval J-20 super stealth plane that will destroy F-35, SHornets, etc. Or that China will destroy everybody else with supersonic anti-ship missiles, and everybody else has lousy subsonic ones that suck...

There are many ways to spin this, as you've surely seen :D
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Don't get me wrong, I think China has made some extraordinary advances in a generation. I was in Shenzen in 1985 and the largest building was about 5 storeys in height and it was literally a dustbowl town. Now they have literally thousands of hi-rise buildings and the infrastructure to go with it. The chinese paid close attention to what the US did post WW2 and have poured money into infrastructure - and by allowing personal wealth have tapped into the cultural vein of success that has been so long dormant.

The problem however is that the kids haven't seen the other side of the coin and the sheer parochialism leads some of them down a path that a few neighbours would be worried about - irrespective of the soothing words coming down the tube.....

They are still 10 years off having a trained effective navy though, and sending a carrier to trials is not the same as having sea going, blue water, fleet sympathetic effectiveness and combat readiness.

ditto, seeing new technology jet fighters flying is not the same as having a modern coherent airforce

thye're a long way off, but its only a matter of time before they get there. They aren't dummies by any margin. (the fanboi kids might be, but the force planners and future force developers aren't.... :) )
 
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T.C.P da Devil said:
I think the Brah mos is better. It seems now a days whenever some one unveils a new anti shipping missile, they have to label it a carrier killer.
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How can you say Brahmos is better when there are no system specs publicly available? Brahmos is a neutered Yakhont and Brahmos is still not a bluewater guidance asset, the Taiwanese only need a regional response - and this missile is enough to do so

as for the carrier killer issue, ultimately its got little to do with killing carriers, its about the capacity to disrupt and dislocate military force due to latency of threat, and at a vessel size its about drawing an association that an enemy that can kill or mobility kill a 100,000t military asset is also going to be able to do the same to a 250,000t supertanker or 60,000t comtainer asset owned or needed by the other side in time of war.
 
NICO said:
Taiwan's 'Carrier Killer' Aims To Sink China's Carrier - Defense News

Nice touch of Taiwanese to reveal this on the same day China's carrier set to sail. Also nice mural, wonder how long they will display it.:D
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"Journalists inspecting the Hsiung Feng 3 were shocked to see a large mural of the Varyag being attacked by three Hsiung Feng 3 missiles. Two of the missiles impact the carrier's starboard bow and starboard quarter, with a third missile is en route to the ship.

The mural was reminiscent of similar displays at the 2010 Zhuhai Airshow in China, where anti-ship missiles were depicted attacking and sinking U.S. aircraft carriers.”

I bet people in charge had fun creating that display. And they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. :lol3
 
My 2 cents,
Firstly, looking back at all these years of internet discussions relating to Chinese military issues, including Varyag, we can keep on laughing at some extremely wild pro-china claims from the so called "china fan boys".
But at the same time can we forget and ignore the fact that there have been same amount, if not more, ridiculously negative comments about Chinese issues? And what kind of boys are they? Aren't they interesting too?

Ironically, even though those china fan boys had claimed 120 points for china, and now turned out to only have 20 points, at least they are celebrating those 20 points at the moment
and who knows whether they will collect more points in the future.

Secondly, some of those wild china claims were made by western world, often quoting unnamed sources from TW. China fan boys are not the laughing stock in these cases.


Thirdly, is it really that hard to understand that what china does is different from what she and her fan boys say? Isn't she following the same logic behind US's questioning of why china needs an aircraft carrier?

It shouldn't be surprising that china is and will continue to saying "F22 is useless, aircraft carrier is useless,..." whilst building J20 and her own aircraft carrier etc...

:):):)
 
gf0012-aust said:
as for the carrier killer issue, ultimately its got little to do with killing carriers, its about the capacity to disrupt and dislocate military force due to latency of threat, and at a vessel size its about drawing an association that an enemy that can kill or mobility kill a 100,000t military asset is also going to be able to do the same to a 250,000t supertanker or 60,000t comtainer asset owned or needed by the other side in time of war.
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Absolutely right, its a point I have been making for years. I am very aware of how the bulk of US ground forces are transported CONUS to rest of world. I also remember very well the fate of the Atlantic Conveyor en route to the Falklands.

After all, a Heavy Armour or Heavy Mechanised Infantry Division minus Armour is......?

I actually believe that the designation of the former Varyag as a training and research ship is quite genuine as a stepping stone is the real game which are the Indigenous Carriers, which are now being strongly hinted as being under construction. The PLAN seem to be using Russian doctrine as their starting point, which no doubt was a reason for buying Varyag in the first place, as it allowed a high degree of compatibility with Russian systems etc.

The key point is that while the ship is not a particularly advanced Carrier by current definitions, it will serve and ensure a full compliment of trained and experienced crews and airwings, by the time the Indigenous ships and finished and put into service.
 
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