Indian Army News and Discussion

[Twinblade]

Whats the reason behind this? lack of trained pilots or engineers to maintain the chopper?, lack of funds? or something else?

Smallest and the least trained air wing, least number of flying hours, lack of a proper logistics trail unlike IA, IN, IAF, least priority given by suppliers (second rate force status, unlike the big boys), besides BSF, ITBP, Assam Rifles etc fail to attract as many bright men as navy, army and airforce do.

 

[T.C.P]

Smallest and the least trained air wing, least number of flying hours, lack of a proper logistics trail unlike IA, IN, IAF, least priority given by suppliers (second rate force status, unlike the big boys), besides BSF, ITBP, Assam Rifles etc fail to attract as many bright men as navy, army and airforce do.

Why doesn't the BSF just hand over the choppers to the IAF. In our country all police, Fire service and civil defense, BGB and other paramily air assets are maintained by the real Military, mostly by the BAF.

 

[vivtho]

Ironically, Arjun has been made possible by massive international support, German consultancy on design, (rumored) British help on gun and armor (hence the armor named after Kanchbaugh where DRDO facility is placed, as in an obivious hint to Chobham Common, Surrey) German engine and transmission, Israeli help on FCS and ammunition. Its an MBT version of frankenstein's monster :

A lot of that money will also be used to cover infrastructure expenses. You can calculate the cost of any product in many ways ... the easiest way is just to count how much the raw materials and labour cost to build a single unit ... the other way is to add infrastructure and R&D costs to the mix and then divide it by the planned number to be built. The second method is more commonly used for new developments ... which is how you get people saying "the B-2 bomber costs $2.2 billion" ... actual unit cost is 'only' $830 million the rest is the R&D costs added to the buy.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Twinblade]

A lot of that money will also be used to cover infrastructure expenses. You can calculate the cost of any product in many ways ... the easiest way is just to count how much the raw materials and labour cost to build a single unit ... the other way is to add infrastructure and R&D costs to the mix and then divide it by the planned number to be built. The second method is more commonly used for new developments ... which is how you get people saying "the B-2 bomber costs $2.2 billion" ... actual unit cost is 'only' $830 million the rest is the R&D costs added to the buy.

Just my 2 cents.

OK, i get it, could be a case of DDM reporting like "lca project finally on track with 1500% cost escalation"

 

[Twinblade]

New short-range missile test July-end

.... Called Prahar, the missile has a range of 150 km. Six missiles can be loaded on to a single launcher........


Prahar will fill the gap between the Pinaka and the Russian-made Smerch, and the larger missiles.
The Pinaka, also produced by the DRDO, is a multiple-rocket launcher system. The missile has a maximum range of 40 km, and the system, mounted on a truck, can fire 12 rockets in 44 seconds. Smerch has a range of 90 km.

I am confused, is it a long ranged MBRL or a short ranged tactical missile ?

Image of prahar at def expo 2010

 

[vivtho]

OK, i get it, could be a case of DDM reporting like "lca project finally on track with 1500% cost escalation"

On such a project you'd also have to factor in inflation. A quick back of the envelope calculation shows that over a 20 year period a steady 7% rate of inflation would be responsible for a 360%+ increase in cost.

 

[webmaster]

Arjun Tank Production lines may be idle for approx 30 months

By P. Chacko Joseph | February 23rd, 2011

What stopped you from posting a link or source of that article? This is warning to YOU and others, please post source and/or link with any news that you post for discussion. The rules about this issue are already pretty clear and established so any further violations would result in temporary or perm ban:

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

Its better to find and confirm the news from main stream news sources and link to it or if you can't link it, at least cite it in your posts. I wouldn't bother posting articles up FOR DISCUSSION that are written by Chacko Joseph as I've received complaints that they do not want their articles proliferated or discussed. hwell So, look for other sources to backup your discussions, please. If its not reported elsewhere, its likely not a news item anyway!

Thanks and enjoy!

 

[Twinblade]

Army set to place order for 248 more arjun main battle tanks

The order, which could be placed in late-2011 itself, will come as a huge boost to the Arjun production line at the Heavy Vehicles Factory at Avadhi, on the outskirts of Chennai, as the same was expected to be terminated due to a lack of interest shown by the Indian Army.

So far, the Army has placed an order for 248 tanks of the Mark-I and Mark-II versions.

and there were people who said that the production will be capped at 248 :/

 

[Twinblade]

Auto cos, L&T vie for Army’s $10-bn combat vehicle order

Ashok Leyland (ALL), Larsen & Toubro (L&T), Bharat Forge, Tata Motors and Mahindra & Mahindra (M&M) are among those who have bid for a $10-billion (R44,000 core) defence ministry contract to supply combat vehicles for the Indian Army. The size of the tender is comparable to the one for combat aircraft being finalised by the ministry.

The FICV's will be made in both wheeled and tracked configuration, winner will make 2/3rd's of the order, 1/3rd to will be made by the runner up. MoD will invest 80% in to the developmental cost. Tie ups with foreign partners are welcome as long as the domestic partner holds 70 %.

A total of 2610 units are planned to replace 700+1900 older BMP-I & BMP-II. Abhay IFV and Tarmour IFV shall remain as tech demo units.

 

[kay_man]

Please help

What stopped you from posting a link or source of that article? This is warning to YOU and others, please post source and/or link with any news that you post for discussion. The rules about this issue are already pretty clear and established so any further violations would result in temporary or perm ban:

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

Its better to find and confirm the news from main stream news sources and link to it or if you can't link it, at least cite it in your posts. I wouldn't bother posting articles up FOR DISCUSSION that are written by Chacko Joseph as I've received complaints that they do not want their articles proliferated or discussed. hwell So, look for other sources to backup your discussions, please. If its not reported elsewhere, its likely not a news item anyway!

Thanks and enjoy!

i haven't posted that!!!
i haven't visited DT forum for a long time
is there a possibility that some one has hacked my account?
Please help.

 

[Twinblade]

Maiden test of Prahaar successful

The maiden flight test of ‘Prahaar’, a quick-reaction, short range tactical missile with a range of 150 km, was successfully conducted on Thursday morning from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chanidpur, Orissa.

The test was carried out at 8.15 a.m. from Launch Complex-III at ITR by missile scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which designed and developed the weapon system to replace unguided rockets of short range and meet the services requirement for such a battlefield weapon system.

DRDO sources told The HIndu soon after the launch that the mission was a success and met all the objectives. The single-stage, solid-fuelled missile zeroed in onto the pre-designated target in the Bay of Bengal with a high degree of accuracy. All the radars, electro-optical systems and telemetry stations, besides a ship located in the vicinity recorded the entire event.

The missile launcher is supposed to carry 6 of these missiles on one truck (pretty much like MBRL). This missile will replace Prithvi ss-150 liquid fueled missiles. Prahar system is also rumored to be much cheaper as compared to Prithvi, so it can be inducted in massive numbers and used as a a long ranged MBRL

 

[dragonfire]

There was a News article i read recently (cant find link now) that IA is raising a new Special Forces Battalion - 11th SF Battalion to cater to the requirements of the North East Sectors. Has anyone got updates on this, it wasnt apparently reported widely. Will the unit be raised fresh or will it be a conversion of some existing unit ?

 

[dragonfire]

Maiden test of Prahaar successful



The missile launcher is supposed to carry 6 of these missiles on one truck (pretty much like MBRL). This missile will replace Prithvi ss-150 liquid fueled missiles. Prahar system is also rumored to be much cheaper as compared to Prithvi, so it can be inducted in massive numbers and used as a a long ranged MBRL

The intent is to have a capability between MBRLs and Medium Range Missiles like the Prithvi, also the Prithvi's range starts at 150 km to 350 kms for the land based variants and the ship based two stage Dhanush upto 750 kms.

A liquid fueled missile should not be considered for a quick reaction tactical weapon or as an ABM. So over a period of time if the Prahar can take over from Prithvi for the Short range and Tactical Battlefield support role it should be better.

So the development of Prahar if it is going to be developed into a comprehensive platform is going to be interesting considering that it has come as a surprising initiative from Indian missile designers

 

[exported_kiwi]

Army set to place order for 248 more arjun main battle tanks




and there were people who said that the production will be capped at 248 :/

So they've actually fixed the shortcomings of this MBT?
(Mods) I live in China, I have little time except for one liners these days, and y'all, please bear with me! The net gestapo are alive and well here!

 

[Twinblade]

So they've actually fixed the shortcomings of this MBT?
(Mods) I live in China, I have little time except for one liners these days, and y'all, please bear with me! The net gestapo are alive and well here!

Yes, (reportedly) there are dozens of modifications, improvements and design changes in the tank but there are no open source details out yet. Last year, DRDO in its desperate move called for a try out against T-90. A few Mk1 tanks, tweeked with some of the Mk2 features (esp LAHAT missile) were found to be performing ok in a much controversial result. Regardless of the controversies, it went on to prove that
A. The program was not hopelessly beyond salvage, as earlier claimed
B. Corners were cut to import T-90's and had the army been more patient with arjun, T-90 numbers could have been restricted.
C. Revealed army's pathetic indifference to product development.

 

[kay_man]

The intent is to have a capability between MBRLs and Medium Range Missiles like the Prithvi, also the Prithvi's range starts at 150 km to 350 kms for the land based variants and the ship based two stage Dhanush upto 750 kms.

A liquid fueled missile should not be considered for a quick reaction tactical weapon or as an ABM. So over a period of time if the Prahar can take over from Prithvi for the Short range and Tactical Battlefield support role it should be better.

So the development of Prahar if it is going to be developed into a comprehensive platform is going to be interesting considering that it has come as a surprising initiative from Indian missile designers

The Prahaar is not nuclear capable as of today at least.
It is meant to compliment the Smerch an in the future may replace it as an indigenous long range artillery.
The nuclear capable variant seems like the obvious development in the future but today at least the prahaar cannot carry a nuke which is generally in excess of 500kgs

 

[dragonfire]

The Prahaar is not nuclear capable as of today at least.

Wasnt stating that the Prahar is nuclear capable or otherwise. However it is important to consider a solid fuel quick reaction missile for Anti Ballistic Missile Defence, unlike the Prithvi which is liquid fueled. Fueling a missile means time is spent in readying it for Pre-Launch prep and that time would be lost against an incoming Ballistic Missile. Similarly for offensive purposes, fueling a missile is also time lost which could benefit the intended target, as well as it being a dead give away. Fueling missiles in the open is also prone to Satellite recon.

The nuclear capable variant seems like the obvious development in the future but today at least the prahaar cannot carry a nuke which is generally in excess of 500kgs

If the missile can be used for nuclear delivery then it might be explored. However due to the current range and intent of the missile it is not a suitable strategic weapon for a first or second strike. The best it can be used for would be to target battle formations with a low yield tactical nuke, or a specific military target, however cruise missiles would be better suited for the same.

It is meant to compliment the Smerch an in the future may replace it as an indigenous long range artillery.

While it will certainly play a complimentary role to the SMERCH and other MBRLs it wouldnt replace artillery would it, it could serve as a more accurate complimentary weapon for precision strike.

 

[kay_man]

Wasnt stating that the Prahar is nuclear capable or otherwise. However it is important to consider a solid fuel quick reaction missile for Anti Ballistic Missile Defence, unlike the Prithvi which is liquid fueled. Fueling a missile means time is spent in readying it for Pre-Launch prep and that time would be lost against an incoming Ballistic Missile. Similarly for offensive purposes, fueling a missile is also time lost which could benefit the intended target, as well as it being a dead give away. Fueling missiles in the open is also prone to Satellite recon.

.

ooh ok.
and by the way prahaar looks very similar to AAD missile. when i saw the video i almost mistook it for the AAD.

 

[dragonfire]

and by the way prahaar looks very similar to AAD missile. when i saw the video i almost mistook it for the AAD.

Yes it does look similar to the AAD.

It also shares similar - same dimensions and weight as per open source info. It could be very well be sharing the same lineage having been developed for one purpose and being utilised for multiple needs decreasing overall development and production costs for parallel systems.

The PAD is basically an enhanced and re-purposed Prithvi Missile

 

[T.C.P]

Arjun lining up to be world's most expensive tank

India's Arjun (Lion) Mk II main battle tank will cost US$8.02 million per unit, defence minister AK Antony has told his nation's parliament. The French ADIT agency notes this makes the indigenous Indian design the world's most expensive tank to date.

By comparison, a new Abrams M1A2 cost the US$6.2 million in 1999. Indian media last week reported the first batch of Arjun Mk II's are likely to enter series production by 2015. Development of the Arjun reportedly started in 1972 with a production decision following in 1996 and a production order for 124, costing US$471.2 million, placed on the Indian Ordinance Factory's production facility at Avadi in 2000.

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18660:arjun-lining-up-to-be-worlds-most-expensive-tank-&catid=50:Land&Itemid=105


This really is expensive, I guess this is because too few are being ordered.