Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Blas de Lezo]

I haven’t read anything on the forum about the new contract signed on the 7th of June this year between the RAN and Navantia FABA for the delivery of 3 SCOMBA ( Sistema de COMbate para Buques de la Armada) + a mini suite for training purposes to be fitted to the three AWD’s.

It has surprised me because if I am not mistaken the SAAB 9LV was chosen for the LHD’s on the basis of commonality with the ANZACs.

Are the LHD’s not more likely to operate with the AWD’s for a longer period of time than the ANZACs? Wouldn’t it make more sense to apply that commonality to the AWD’s than the ANZACs?

It would be great if any of you could help me with this pickle.


Thanks

 

[StevoJH]

Its simple arithmatic, the RAN has 8 ANZAC's and will only have 3 AWD's.

More then likely though, its nothing to with operating together and more likely to do with minimising training overheads by having the same system in the LHD's as is in the ANZAC's.

To get the same commonality with the AWD would require the much more expensive Aegis combat system to be fitted to the LHD's.

 

[Blas de Lezo]

Just to clarify, SCOMBA is the equivalent of SAAB 9LV is a systems integrator and control, is fitted to all new ships of the armada from OPV's like the BAM's to the JCI or the F100's, something like this.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/4171/scomba.jpg

It works with aegis or without it, integrates, radar , navs, comms (link 16 and ready for 22) etc. Aegis is not a requirement.

I should have said Combat Management System

 

[StevoJH]

Do the AWD's have it or have they been switched to the SAAB system?

 

[Blas de Lezo]

Do the AWD's have it or have they been switched to the SAAB system?

SCOMBA and its upgrades has been fitted to all new Spanish Armada ships (of certain entity that is) and as a consequence of the contract signed between the RAN and NAVANTIA FABA early this month, it will be fitted to all three Hobart's + a training suite.

That is as much as I can gather from the news on the net and the Spanish media , It has also been mentioned that during August the RAN and Navantia will sign the deal for 10 Landing craft ( incidentally, I do not understand this, I could understand 8, but the other 2??, are they for the Largs Bay??)

 

[Blas de Lezo]

My apologies, it's all a bit confusing, SCOMBA had been mentioned by some of the specialized press but NAVANTIA talks about Internal Comunications Systems so I will go with the latter, it makes more sense.

 

[StevoJH]

The additional two could also be to provide additionals while the others are in maintenance or for training.

 

[alexsa]

Oh good. I thought I was the only one terrified about how this project will go once BAE get their grubby little hands on the platforms...

hwell

No I am on the same page, why the hell they don't simply build the superstructure in Navnatia is beyond me. Then we can simply let BEA stuff up the intergration of systems and not the steel work as well.

 

[alexsa]

I would imagine these things won't be installed until she gets to Australia to reduce the risk of damage during the shiplift.

I have been scratching my head about the pods as they certainly cannot fit them in Williamstown.

 

[icelord]

Run away? Where to if you are midway through a choke point transit such as the Strait of Hormuz or elsewhere?

Even if that were navigationally feasible, fast attack boats could potentially run down a frigate.

As for typhoon, no frigates are fitted with Typhoon, nor are any planned to be (it would be a major modification).
Mini-Typhooon is fitted, but thats just the commercial brand name for automated 12.7mm, a valuable weapons system, but not a foolproof ring of steel.

Having dealt with Mini-T i have to say its great and all, but way too many drawbacks, which is why on FFG-FFH they have mounted 12.7mm to deal with threats. The mini t can provide a good stern fire on FFH in a Radhaz zone, limiting risk to crews future kids, but a mount is able to provide continuous fire and barrel changes when laying constant fire(if the situation arrived)
For me it seems the RAN looks at small surface attack as a minor issue, while most GDP crews train in surface attack, the AWD appear to have no mounts and just Mini-T, leading to a few issues if under constant surface attack by several fast movers.
As always, things break, Typhoon and Mini typhoon and prone to error, computer glitches etc, while the 12.7 design is sturdy as hell as its over 70 years old with minor changes. You can thrash it around and play tough with it and not get any damage (however there are ways to break it, i have 2 U/S 12.7 to prove it)
Its better to have someone closed up on both mount and Mini-T to provide cover, then to have one and wish for the other...

 

[spoz]

Naval Aviation doesn't want a seperate MSH platform and will happily replace its MRH90s with additional MH-60Rs.

Or, say, 10 or so Sierras.....

 

[spoz]

the AWD appear to have no mounts and just Mini-T, ...

The AWD is fitted with Typhoon (not mini) and a number of 12.7mm mounts

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Or, say, 10 or so Sierras.....

Navy Aviation want a common fleet. The boxes in the back of the MH-60R can be removed allowing it to become a cargo helo. While the MH-60S has better lifting ability it has a range of airframe differences which complicate their training and sustainment if you are a small user. Even if the MRH 90 comes along nicely and enters service Naval Aviation will still want to replace it with additional MH-60Rs. The chances of that are low (much higher if the MRH 90 does a full Seasprite or Collins) but that is still their policy intent.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

The AWD is fitted with Typhoon (not mini) and a number of 12.7mm mounts

The Hobart class have two 25mm Typhoons mounted on the bridge wings. Which strikes me as a terrible place to put them. They will have limited firing arcs and will interfere with the bridge crew doing their thing. This is however where the Spanish have two very old 20mm guns (1930s Mauser guns) but their role is over the bow shoots and saluting fire not stablisied close in defence. There are a few places they could place12.7mm HMGs on flex mounts on the AWDs but it doesn't appear to have built up positions with armour and the like as on the frigates and amphibs. Since it has a pretty crowded topside it won't be easy fitting in at least four good pos. for HMG mounts. It will however have the Mk 15 Mod Phalanx with optical sight and programs for engaging small boats. This ought to keep any bad little boats away from the aft end of the ship.

 

[spoz]

Since it has a pretty crowded topside it won't be easy fitting in at least four good pos. for HMG mounts. It will however have the Mk 15 Mod Phalanx with optical sight and programs for engaging small boats. This ought to keep any bad little boats away from the aft end of the ship.

Hence the mounting of the typhoons abaft the bridge wings. There are "at least four good pos for HMG mounts".

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Hence the mounting of the typhoons abaft the bridge wings. There are "at least four good pos for HMG mounts".

I understand that the Typhoons want to be facing forward with the Phalanx aft. But the bridge level position is going to mess with the bridge. A better solution would be to raise them up above the bridge. This would also improve their forward arcs. This would obviously require a lot more design effort and engineering. Locating them where the Mausers were was simply default.

 

[Kirkzzy]

Not wanting to intrude on the current convo (don't mind me, just posting a link). But if anyone is interested in seeing some shots of the LHDs/BPE other than just plans and non-panning shots of just one side of the ship I have a video with some great rotational 360 degree shots of the JC 1. I actually realised that this video shows the ship from a lot of angles, that I hadn't seen before. Also really shows how large the ship is, in terms of height and length I myself was slightly amazed.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQn4lzCqAXA"]YouTube - ‪Portaaviones mas Grandes de la Armada 2011‬‏[/nomedia]

Anyway do continue..

 

[Jhom]

Not wanting to intrude on the current convo (don't mind me, just posting a link). But if anyone is interested in seeing some shots of the LHDs/BPE other than just plans and non-panning shots of just one side of the ship I have a video with some great rotational 360 degree shots of the JC 1. I actually realised that this video shows the ship from a lot of angles, that I hadn't seen before. Also really shows how large the ship is, in terms of height and length I myself was slightly amazed.

YouTube - ‪Portaaviones mas Grandes de la Armada 2011‬‏

Anyway do continue..

She really looks badass on that video

 

[Ozymandias]

Australian Government, Department of Defence - Stephen Smith MP

Defence minister announces Force Posture Review (see link)

Somehow I don't see the ADF having permanent bases in the Pilbara to protect the mines and gas rigs. They'd never attract enough personnel to staff such bases, and the ones they do get would get poached by the resources companies.

I can see a US brigade stationed in the NT, and a USN destroyer flotilla at FBW.

 

[weegee]

She really looks badass on that video

Yeah I hear that the Canberra's are going to be huge it will be a sight seeing 2 in Sydney at the same time, someone on here has been saying for a long time that not many people seem to grasp the size of these ships this video showed their size for sure.