Australian Army Discussions and Updates

winnyfield

New Member
Canada has 5 CH-47Ds in theater and are looking to sell them rather than bringing them home.

Time for Australia to pull a Largs Bay again.

Chinook helicopters to be sold as Afghan mission ends - CTV News
The Canadian Press
Date: Tuesday Feb. 1, 2011 6:38 PM ET
Chinook helicopters to be sold as Afghan mission ends

OTTAWA — National Defence has put "For Sale" signs on the air force's Chinook helicopters in Afghanistan -- two years after taxpayers shelled out $282 million to buy them.

The department recently sounded out allies in the war-torn country to see whether any are interested in the heavy battlefield transports, purchased second-hand from the U.S. Army.

Some defence analysts suggest Canada might be better served by bringing the choppers home for domestic operations, perhaps improving the search-and-rescue system.

So far there have been no takers for the five CH-147D choppers, which were rushed into Afghanistan after the Manley commission made it a condition of Ottawa continuing the war until 2011.

Canada initially purchased six aircraft in a government-to-government arrangement with Washington, but one was shot down by Taliban small-arms fire in Panjwaii district, west of Kandahar city, last August.

To make up for the loss, Ottawa leased a D model American Chinook for the reminder of the mission. Defence officials refused to say at what cost.

If no buyers are found for the Canadian Chinooks they will be packed up and brought home when the combat mission ends in July, said the general who leads the transition headquarters.

"We're still looking to divest ourselves of them," Brig.-Gen. Charles Lamarre said in a recent interview with The Canadian Press.

"They're going to have to push that through and get them sold before we shut things down. If by chance we don't, we'll still have a responsibility to look after that equipment."

The air force picked up the Afghanistan choppers intending to sell them once the combat mission ended. The decision was made, in part, because there was a new fleet of helicopters on order.

The Conservative government signalled its intention to spend $4.7 billion on 15 new Chinooks a few years ago. The new choppers are latest model -- the F series -- and have been modified with extra-large fuel tanks and improved sensors.

But Rob Huebert of the Centre for Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary said the older Chinooks could serve a vital role in Canada.

They could free some of the newer helicopters for operations in the Arctic, or even bolster the country's hard-pressed search-and-rescue fleet, he said.

"I don't think having too many helicopters is a bad thing," Huebert said. "The type of capability and the type of lift the Chinooks provide can always be put to use here."

Having the surplus Chinooks around would give the military the opportunity during the summer to station one or two of the newer long-range helicopters in the North, where the Harper government has said it wants a more robust presence.

The air force has long had availability and spare parts woes with its CH-149 Cormorant search-and-rescue helicopters, and operations of that aircraft have been restricted to the East and West Coasts.

Huebert said the extra Chinooks could slide into search-and-rescue operations in Central Canada, where the smaller Griffon helicopter has been covering the gap.

The cost of maintaining and operating the older Chinooks might be slightly higher, he said, but likely not prohibitive to the extent that other fleets would have to be shut down.

The air force has said it would be expensive to keep the D model aircraft.

The Defence Department was asked for comment, but refused to discuss the rationale for ditching the helicopters.
 

jeffb

Member
Canada has 5 CH-47Ds in theater and are looking to sell them rather than bringing them home.

Time for Australia to pull a Largs Bay again.

Chinook helicopters to be sold as Afghan mission ends - CTV News
There is no real point buying more Ds after everyone pulls out of Afghanistan, we're getting rid of ours too.

Also if the "unspent billions" were spent on random projects instead of being given back to the government there is no way the government would allocate more money for the projects the "unspent billions" were initially earmarked for. That would be an even worse long-term outcome than the current delays.
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
There is no real point buying more Ds after everyone pulls out of Afghanistan, we're getting rid of ours too.

Also if the "unspent billions" were spent on random projects instead of being given back to the government there is no way the government would allocate more money for the projects the "unspent billions" were initially earmarked for. That would be an even worse long-term outcome than the current delays.
Canada is withdrawing from Afghanistan this year. With the loss of an airframe, the Army may not be able to sustain their current (well, previous) in theatre deployment of two airframes.

If the Canadian Chinooks are in good enough condition and are cheap enough, they can keep the Army's inventory up and act as additional attrition replacements until the ADF withdraw from Afghanistan.
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
The DMO was endorsed by Government a few years ago to keep a watching eye on any second hand Delta model Chinooks that become available for purchase to flesh out the fleet. While their life of type in ADF service may be low the Delta model still has long term value as Boeing accept them as trade ins on new Foxtrot models. Plus of course the value of having an aircraft flying next week as opposed to five years from now is immense.

As to the immediate replacement of the scuttled Chook this will be filled by Coalition assets in theatre. The aircrew are all seriously injured and won't be returning to work tomorrow without an airframe to fly. The lack of an airframe will have to be addressed when the next raise/train/sustain cycle comes around.
 

the road runner

Active Member
The aircrew are all seriously injured and won't be returning to work tomorrow without an airframe to fly.
Was the chook shot down by enemy fire ......was it operator error......failure of the systems.I have yet to see any comment from Defence stating the cause of the incident.Dose anyone know what happened to the chook?
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
New ADF leadership has just been announced by the Minister.

Australian Government, Department of Defence - Stephen Smith MP

All appointments are to be recommended for three years and to take effect from 4 July 2011.

Lieutenant General David Hurley, AC, DSC to be the Chief of the Defence Force.

Air Marshal Mark Binskin, AO to be the Vice Chief of the Defence Force.

Rear Admiral Ray Griggs, AM CSC RAN to be the Chief of Navy.

Major General David Morrison, AO to be the Chief of Army.

Air Vice-Marshal Geoff Brown, AM to be the Chief of Air Force.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
ADM: Diggerworks delivers updated SCE for MTF 3

zooommggg.. future stuff.

Looks like multicam, were finally using it for our regular troops. Cool :D

Anyone got any details though on what exactly (the equipment) the soldiers will be deploying with.
The full list??? We'll be here all night typing that out...

This new announcement basically refers to the new multi-cam uniform, new TBAS (tiered body armour system, designed for multiple levels of protection/mobility depending on the task at hand) plus new ballistics glasses which provide optical and laser protection as well as some level of ballistic protection.

It also has new webbing designed to integrate with the TBAS and the system integrates with the enhanced combat helmet, the SPR - soldiers personal radio and the upgraded "poo rifle" (brown/tan coloured) F-88 rifle.

Boots remain an issue with a considerable number of Chief of Army approved non-issue boots available for use and often preferred to the "Terrors" on issue...
 

riksavage

Banned Member
Fighting season.... if its anything like last year we quite possibly have to expect more.
The fighting season this year will be one of the costliest if you believe many of the senior commanders on the ground, it's make or break time. More boots on the ground means a higher risk of casualties. New offensives expanding out from established safe areas sown with IED's. UK and Aus have been losing almost one soldier KIA per day, the US even more. The Taliban know they don't need to seize ground just increase the attrition rate thereby weakening resolve on the home front forcing a peace agreement.
 

Kirkzzy

New Member
The fighting season this year will be one of the costliest if you believe many of the senior commanders on the ground, it's make or break time. More boots on the ground means a higher risk of casualties. New offensives expanding out from established safe areas sown with IED's. UK and Aus have been losing almost one soldier KIA per day, the US even more. The Taliban know they don't need to seize ground just increase the attrition rate thereby weakening resolve on the home front forcing a peace agreement.
You know, when I look at this war and then at Vietnam... I just see so many similarities. Guerrillas war... Taliban trying to win the political war at home... no direct threat (conventional.. losing A-stan means terrorists will use it as a nest) to countries' involved so opposition at home is mounting... We are vsing a foe that we don't know the size of... we have the technology and equipment... when one of them dies more take their place.. etc..
 

riksavage

Banned Member
You know, when I look at this war and then at Vietnam... I just see so many similarities. Guerrillas war... Taliban trying to win the political war at home... no direct threat (conventional.. losing A-stan means terrorists will use it as a nest) to countries' involved so opposition at home is mounting... We are vsing a foe that we don't know the size of... we have the technology and equipment... when one of them dies more take their place.. etc..
Casualties in Afghanistan are very low compared to Vietnam and Korea (engagements with similar levels of combat), unfortunately the media never reflect this fact and subsequently every death becomes a catalyst for reigniting the withdrawal argument. Unfortunately now Osama is dead the reason for being in A-Stan is greatly diminished in a lot of peoples eyes.

The Taliban will try and use this faltering resolve to encourage a draw-down whilst the indigenous security forces remain weak and poorly led. They will focus all their efforts this season on increasing the death toll amongst the Nato allies even if it results in zero tactical gain and high loss rates amongst its foot soldiers.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
You know, when I look at this war and then at Vietnam... I just see so many similarities. Guerrillas war... Taliban trying to win the political war at home... no direct threat (conventional.. losing A-stan means terrorists will use it as a nest) to countries' involved so opposition at home is mounting... We are vsing a foe that we don't know the size of... we have the technology and equipment... when one of them dies more take their place.. etc..
The key difference is Afghanistan was a santuary for terrorists who sought to bring down our way of life through deliberately targeting and killing thousands of innocent civilians and likely will be again if we withdraw. Vietnam on the other hand wanted self determination without a colonial master and set about rebuilding their nation as soon as the conflict was over.
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
The similarities between the Afghanistan and VietNam Wars are: both are wars, both involve some insurgent activity, both have America involved and both are misunderstood by the greater majority of observers. That’s about it really.
 

W.J

New Member
prospective Australian artilleryman...

i am currently in year 12 in NSW and would like to leave school ASAP and join the army.

I am interested in the artillery as i find it interesting and it has a minimum service period of 2 years. after that period i would like to become a combat engineer ( that job is not recruiting atm). could i have some feedback on the feasability of my plan.Could i have information on the daily routine as an artilleryman in the australian army and an outline of the training course at puckapunyal(the only info i can find on the website is that it lasts 4 weeks).
i am specifically interested in the post training routine. Any insider in put from serving members would be welcome.::)

many thanks in advance WJ

EDIT:how much input will i have to where i am posted after training?
 

Abraham Gubler

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I am interested in the artillery as i find it interesting and it has a minimum service period of 2 years. after that period i would like to become a combat engineer ( that job is not recruiting atm). could i have some feedback on the feasability of my plan.
I don’t know about Artillery ECNs having a minium service of two years, I would imagine it’s like the rest of the Army where you sign up for at least three years. If you want to be a combat engineer you are much better off joining the Engineers as one of their other ECNs like survey or construction engineers. It will be much easier for you to simply do a second ECN qualification to combat engineer rather than a corps transfer from Artillery to Engineers.

Could i have information on the daily routine as an artilleryman in the australian army and an outline of the training course at puckapunyal(the only info i can find on the website is that it lasts 4 weeks).
i am specifically interested in the post training routine. Any insider in put from serving members would be welcome.::)
Artillery has returned their training of gunners into two streams: gun numbers (bunnies) and operators/observers who control the fire of the artillery units. The gun bunny course is a month long but the operator course 14 weeks and observer course 12 weeks. There are also air defence, UAV and radar operators. The Gun Bunny operates the actual artillery system which effectively means loading it, pushing it, lifting it and cleaning it at the initial entry level. ECN training is a mix of classroom, simulator and field training. The gun number course focuses on the operation of the guns and ammunition. The new guns have embedded radios and computer systems but I don’t think the basic ECN course covers much of this.

There is no daily routine in a combat unit. All services typically start work early (6ish) and knock off early (4ish). Thursday arvos is usually unit physical training. Each day will be set out with different training, maintenance, qualifications and so on. When you deploy on field exercise you will be lucky to get two hours sleep a night. But don’t worry this is only for three week blocks and you do get used to it.

EDIT:how much input will i have to where i am posted after training?
If you’re single, none, if you are married, very little.
 

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
i am currently in year 12 in NSW and would like to leave school ASAP and join the army.

I am interested in the artillery as i find it interesting and it has a minimum service period of 2 years. after that period i would like to become a combat engineer ( that job is not recruiting atm). could i have some feedback on the feasability of my plan.Could i have information on the daily routine as an artilleryman in the australian army and an outline of the training course at puckapunyal(the only info i can find on the website is that it lasts 4 weeks).
i am specifically interested in the post training routine. Any insider in put from serving members would be welcome.::)

many thanks in advance WJ

EDIT:how much input will i have to where i am posted after training?
Agree with what Abe said. When you sign up fulltime, you have a ROSO - return of service obligatio to fulfill.

Army has to spend a heap of money to train you up, so it wants a return for it's investment, ie: service from you.

You are most unlikely to be allowed a Corps transfer within in your first 4 year obligation, unless you are in possession of some critical skill perhaps that Army needs elsewhere, like a surgeon or some such, which I'm guessing you probably aren't... :D

If I would you I would pick the corps you tuly want and stick with it. You are going to be quite unhappy if you pick a Corps 'you only want to do for a while' as your wants and Army's wants often conflict but youve agreed to Army's conditions upon joining and thet get their way...

Which leads to my next point. You do get a choice of postings when you join. Your choice and Army's choice will match 'extremely' closely...

:)

If your choice is Darwin or Townsville...
 

W.J

New Member
thanks for the info guys...

from what you have said i have applied to be a bunnie. the defence jobs website advertises the artillyman job as a job that has both 2 and 4 year terms of employment so i will opt for the 2 year option. Im not overly concerned with where they send me as i live in a fairly small country town and i will take this as a ticket out of here... but ive read that as a artillryman i can choose from sydney, brisbane, townsville, or darwin(listed in order of preference).

i think i will put one of my job preferences as one of the other engineering roles...

is a corps transfer possible after your ROSO? would i be prefered over someone with no experience?


PS. i tryed to post a link to show the jobs i was interested in but i think the forum is blocking me in case im a spammer or something....
 
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