Yeah, but it'll actually work. As long as it is flying missions at night it is operational in my book. The paperwork can catch up later. It'd already be flying in Afghanistan if we really wanted it to - there's not much call for attack choppers after dark.
You would know that the availability of an aircraft that hasn't even officially reached IOC yet... how exactly?
the punchline is IOR - that can be the deployment trigger - IOC is so broad in can and does mean anything that the stakeholder and their sponsor determine. ie they draw the line in the sand as to when the project manager can start to "let go"
They don't even have HOT integrated? The German UHTs can fire HOT right now and I would have expected the French HAD to be capable of employing it, too. After all they have them in stock and ready. HOT should be ok for everything they encounter in Lybia.
IOC has little to do with availability rates just that the aircraft and operating unit is all signed off in its baseline capability. You could be all singing and all dancing but not be able to do one thing out of a list of 100 things so not reach IOC. You would need a limited release but the unit would still be very capable.
You need a lot of equipment in the aircraft to control a missile like HOT (SACLOS guidance). The Tigre HAD doesn't have the space for these black boxes because it carries the 30mm gun and ammunition. Hellfire guidance is much simpler and only needs software in existing computers and a LD unit in the sensor ball.
Because I work with them. It might amaze some people on the internet, but there are actually people that use all the equipment that gets talked about on forums such as this.
I've got a few mates in 1 Avn, and have worked the Tigers a fair bit. Ex HAMEL last year was the first time I had worked with them under pretty much operational conditions. They destroyed >60% of the OPFOR armour, so they were handy to have around - they saved my arse from OPFOR ASLAVs a couple of times. They couldn't fly by night, but otherwise they were good to go. They did completely stuff up the live fire though, and delayed the attack for an hour or so, although that was the DPRACs fault as much as theirs.
I'd be interested to see/hear how the Tigers are integrated with the Longbow equipped Apache's. Will they operate independently, or will the Tigers leverage of the Longbow's surveillance radar? With only four Apache's assigned to Ocean, attaching a single Apache to a flight of Tiger's must surely improve the situational awareness of the group?
a bit more than night/instruments, but you can get me on PM for that discussion
If OPFOR had this:
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUUeqSseERo"]YouTube - 2K22M Tunguska-M1 Russian Anti Aircraft‏[/nomedia]
Things might have been different for deh Tigerz.
Well, if you talk to 2/14 they reckon they shot down every Tiger that they saw anyway (the CO called in a 'kill' on a Tiger from his 0.50 cal from about 5000m away and got very upset when it was turned down). Mind you, 2/14 also reckoned they stopped cold the assault across the cease fire line (lead by a squadron of tanks no less), so I wouldn't put too much faith in their reporting.
I do know the Tigers enjoyed great success shooting down the enemy 'Havocs' (which looked remarkably like Kiwi UH-1Hs).
I think Australia still has a long way to go in training up effective umpires for these large exercises, as generally the only people available are the numpties that units want to get rid of for a month or so.
I do know the Tigers enjoyed great success shooting down the enemy 'Havocs' (which looked remarkably like Kiwi UH-1Hs).
I think Australia still has a long way to go in training up effective umpires for these large exercises, as generally the only people available are the numpties that units want to get rid of for a month or so.
Hi,
I was wondering what the Tigers were employing to 'shoot' down the 'Havocs'
I was under the impression that Aussie Tigers were not equipped with Mistral.
Do they train as if they had Mistral or were they simulating the use of Hellfires or 30mm against the Havocs?
cheers
rb
I don't imagine there'd be many issues in using Hellfire/30mm against slow-flying air targets such as helicopters... if I recall correctly in the Gulf there was even an instance where a Paveway that'd been targeted on a grounded helo didn't get there until after the helicopter had taken off, but the target was still lased so it hit it anyway (bearing in mind the target was in a hover and the Paveway was obviously coming from above at quite a speed by that stage)... if that's true I don't reckon Hellfires would have too many problems. Just guessing though, Raven would be the man with the answer... 
With the extremely advanced and very capable force of "notional weapons" that the ADF is equipped with of course!!!
I remember a friend of mine, an ex 5/7 RAR (when it was still 5/7) platoon commander and now a Major at the Canungra training centre spoke very proudly of "notionally" defeating an M1A1 tank platoon in the early 2000's through employment of his equally notional Javelin ATGW section. This happened some years before the decision had been made to even acquire Javelin...
Hence the old joke about not being able to afford any training ammunition so the soldiers go out bush and yell "bang" at each other. This works fine until ne soldier yells "bang" at another soldier one day and he refuses to die. The fellow who "shot him" is very upset and confronts the DIrecting Staff and says "I shot him but he won't die. That's against the rules."
The DS looks at the guy questioningly and the guy shrugs and says in reply, "I'm a tank"...
ADF conducts a surprisingly large amount of training in this fashion...
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Two Australian soldiers died in Afghanistan Moday per the Defence site. One was killed by an Afghan soldier he was mentoring while on guard duty.
The seconday was killed when the Army Chinook crashed. Fortunately the other Australian personnel aboard appear to be in decent condition.
I do have to wonder though, what will become of the Australian Chinook force, since IIRC the ADF only has (had?) ~6, with 1-2 deployed to support Operation Slipper.
My condolences to the families, and as Monday was the US holiday Memorial Day, may the soldiers rest in peace.
The seconday was killed when the Army Chinook crashed. Fortunately the other Australian personnel aboard appear to be in decent condition.
I do have to wonder though, what will become of the Australian Chinook force, since IIRC the ADF only has (had?) ~6, with 1-2 deployed to support Operation Slipper.
My condolences to the families, and as Monday was the US holiday Memorial Day, may the soldiers rest in peace.
My god.. so soon, I really don't want a repeat of June-August 2010... (speaking of which, it is now nearly a year ago pretty much) No wonder, fighting season definitely has started.
I to wonder what the ADF will do about its chinook force...
R.I.P to the diggers and condolences to the families.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Yes another sad day for the ADF and so close on the heels of losing another ADF member to an IED only a week ago.
Whilst I have never served, I follow defence matters very closely due to my family's military history.
My grandfather on my father's side fought in the Boer War, my grandfather on my Mother's side fought at Gallipoli, was wounded, but survived.
My father and all my Uncle's were in the AIF during the 2nd World War.
So yes again, another sad day.
As to the CH-47D's, I believe that usually 2 of the 6 that are in service, are in Afganistan during the "fighting season", so the loss will certainly be a strain.
The 6 CH-47D's are being replaced, or starting to be replaced, by 7 CH-47F's, but the first of the F's, I believe, is not due for another 3 years.
Is replacing 6 (now 5) with 7, enough? Probably not when you consider what has happened yesterday.
I don't know if the remaining 5 D's will be retired or remanufactured to F's to increase the fleet size
Hmm.. could possibly give the government evidence that 7 is not enough and that 12-20 is more acceptable. (15-20 being if we really wanted to fork out some serious cash.. although 12 is just fine)
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Yes, just what I was thinking.
Maybe with all the "unspent" $Billions that defence gave back to the government from their budget allocation (or even a supplementary allocation), the government could go to the US and ask them to give up some production slots (just like the US has with the C-17 and F/A18F's and probably will do if we select the MH60R's) for a close friend.
Could we get an early delivery of some F models, Impossible?, I think not if we asked the question.