What chopper is this

[SQDLDR]

So in essence gf0012-your concurring with all I posted? The Strike Force was more detailed then their letting us know (Naturally). The Heli, as your stipulating isn't anything "new". The planned destruction was executed as "planned"- in that the event was necessary-as it was. The tail section was "outside" the compound wall, 'unknowst' to the SEALS? Your stating that Thermite as opposed to C4 was used (or any other explosive).
The one thing you post that I find somewhat unreasonable is to believe the Safe House was "painting" the target as opposed to being "caught" with that equipment-the designator is not large, but it isn't small-and the **** Military would know what it was if they 'found' it. My guess would be that the assets in the safe house probably left before the Strike Force arrived on scene; for their own safety, and that they had accomplished their mission. Which, again, I'm not suggesting that that even happened-the 'painting'-but it sounds more then reasonable to me-and has been done in the past extensively.
Kudos for your thought provoking reply!!

 

[gf0012-aust]

So in essence gf0012-your concurring with all I posted? The Strike Force was more detailed then their letting us know (Naturally). The Heli, as your stipulating isn't anything "new". The planned destruction was executed as "planned"- in that the event was necessary-as it was. The tail section was "outside" the compound wall, 'unknowst' to the SEALS? Your stating that Thermite as opposed to C4 was used (or any other explosive).

yes, as thermite is used to cause a catastrophic burn through. C4 is catastrophic and kinetic, not the same effect. thermite grenades are kept on sensitive ewarfare or crows assets for the same reason. its immediate, its destructive and theres minimal chance of anything being recoverable as the heat is intense. its also what they used to destroy the insides of Abrams tanks in GW1 if they couldn't be recovered and teams were unable to stay and support a recovery.

The one thing you post that I find somewhat unreasonable is to believe the Safe House was "painting" the target as opposed to being "caught" with that equipment-the designator is not large, but it isn't small-and the **** Military would know what it was if they 'found' it. My guess would be that the assets in the safe house probably left before the Strike Force arrived on scene; for their own safety, and that they had accomplished their mission. Which, again, I'm not suggesting that that even happened-the 'painting'-but it sounds more then reasonable to me-and has been done in the past extensively.
Kudos for your thought provoking reply!!

the building could have been painted from a fixed artifact prior to extracting the observer

it could also be painted from any of the reo team on standby.

so yes there is probably agreement of sorts - I don't see the actual inserts doing it as they don't need to, there are a multitude of ways for it to be achieved without compromising the incoming teams.

 

[SQDLDR]

yes, as thermite is used to cause a catastrophic burn through. C4 is catastrophic and kinetic, not the same effect. thermite grenades are kept on sensitive ewarfare or crows assets for the same reason. its immediate, its destructive and theres minimal chance of anything being recoverable as the heat is intense. its also what they used to destroy the insides of Abrams tanks in GW1 if they couldn't be recovered and teams were unable to stay and support a recovery.



the building could have been painted from a fixed artifact prior to extracting the observer

it could also be painted from any of the reo team on standby.

so yes there is probably agreement of sorts - I don't see the actual inserts doing it as they don't need to, there are a multitude of ways for it to be achieved without compromising the incoming teams.

Multiple Thermites' would be my answer; as well as the minimization of the 'noise' from an explosion (kinetic) of the detonating materials-the fuel explosion would be after the fact. However, lest you believe I'm an idiot-I would have ventured to say that anyway.
However, asides from what you've posted above-your not sharing much on what your estimate of the Heli is or could be? care to expand on that?

 

[gf0012-aust]

However, asides from what you've posted above-your not sharing much on what your estimate of the Heli is or could be? care to expand on that?

I've got a personal view but thats not the same as what someone like Gremlin29 may think - and he's far better placed to provide a technical insight.

 

[StevoJH]

SQDLDR,

I doubt it matters what side the tail rotor it on, it would do the same job either way.

It just depends on which side of the tail they decide to run the shaft from. They could even build the engines to run the opposite way to normal (ie. rotor direction) and alter it to get the exact same lift effect by reversing the angle of the rotors.

Not a major issue.

With regard to painting the target, is it really necessary? Exact geographical co-ordinates (GPS) plus photos so they can recognise the building could suffice I would have thought.

 

[gf0012-aust]

With regard to painting the target, is it really necessary? Exact geographical co-ordinates (GPS) plus photos so they can recognise the building could suffice I would have thought.

the target co-ord can be locked in without any additional assets painting it.

that requirement hasn't been needed for some years...

 

[Mikestro]

It looks like this chopper was developed in NY at the Sikorsky’s Hawk Works facilities near Elmira, N.Y. The have a history low-volume production runs of custom Black Hawks and low-noise survilance aircraft.

Indications Of Hawk Works In Stealth Helo | AVIATION WEEK

Also efforts were made to remove/ obscure from google earth rather innocuous regional airports in the NY area.

Spook Central: Stealth Helo HQ?

 

[Gremlin29]

There would be no need to laze for the assaulters as this was a deliberate operation.

As I mentioned before, this was definately a UH-60 derivitive evidenced by the photos and I highly doubt that the 160th SOAR is using them.

StevoJH is correct, it doesn't really matter what side the tail rotor is on or which direction the main blades turn. US helicopters main blades turn counterclockwise as viewed from above, all others turn clockwise.

 

[Davyd]

But the position of the tail rotor on whatever side of the helo is dictated by which direction the main rotor spins, to counter the auto rotation the helo's engine hub inherently generates right? So this is to say the USA just develops all their helo with hubs that spin in that direction.

I would believe this is one of a small brace of whatever UH-60mod the US has in its' black inventory, most likely using lessons learned from the Commanche (among others). I simply find it interesting that the Army indeed does have something black like the Air Force does. Notice how it's always the Air Force that has to do the 'black project unveiling'? The Navy or Army never have anything. That being said - wonder if this helo really is an Army asset. Perhaps a MH-60mod or SH-60mod? After all, it was carrying SEALs. I should think that if any given service has specifically trained men for specific ops, they ought to have the equipment to back up every aspect of said ops.s

 

[gf0012-aust]

But the position of the tail rotor on whatever side of the helo is dictated by which direction the main rotor spins, to counter the auto rotation the helo's engine hub inherently generates right? So this is to say the USA just develops all their helo with hubs that spin in that direction.

its been stated that the tail was flipped. the stabilators are FSW, thats whats confusing people who are only familiar with regular helo layouts

I would believe this is one of a small brace of whatever UH-60mod the US has in its' black inventory, most likely using lessons learned from the Commanche (among others). I simply find it interesting that the Army indeed does have something black like the Air Force does. Notice how it's always the Air Force that has to do the 'black project unveiling'? The Navy or Army never have anything. That being said - wonder if this helo really is an Army asset. Perhaps a MH-60mod or SH-60mod? After all, it was carrying SEALs. I should think that if any given service has specifically trained men for specific ops, they ought to have the equipment to back up every aspect of said ops.s

all black events have been supported by SOAR. its "not" army, navy, airforce at that level as they do purple black support

they do have the equipment to support these events, they have for the last 25 years. the only difference is that now its a "surprise" to the general public as they left part of one behind

the nightstalker (SOAR) role is to support that community - its not service specific.

 

[Gremlin29]

The tail rotor is mounted on whatever side the designers choose, based on varioius design decissions. ALL versions of the UH-60 have a tail rotor that is in fact mounted on the starboard (right side as viewed from the rear of the aircraft) side. It is not predicated on the direction of rotation of the main rotor blades. The AH-1 Cobra's tail rotor is mounted on the starboard, even though it uses the basic drive train of the UH-1 Huey which has a port mounted tail rotor.

The 160th is sharing our ramp on this deployment. I literally park right next to their little birds. They are not a black ops unit any longer, they are grey ops. My comment is not intended nor should it be construed to mean that I don't have the utmost respect for the 160th SOAR, because I totally respect them and the fact that you don't just get assigned to them, you assess just like they do in SF.

That said, if there is a true black ops Army aviation unit that doesn't exist, although I could be wrong I would bet $100 this nonexistant unit is the actual operators of this intersting Blackhawk variant. I'm just sayin....

 

[gf0012-aust]

The tail rotor is mounted on whatever side the designers choose, based on varioius design decissions. ALL versions of the UH-60 have a tail rotor that is in fact mounted on the starboard (right side as viewed from the rear of the aircraft) side. It is not predicated on the direction of rotation of the main rotor blades. The AH-1 Cobra's tail rotor is mounted on the starboard, even though it uses the basic drive train of the UH-1 Huey which has a port mounted tail rotor.

The 160th is sharing our ramp on this deployment. I literally park right next to their little birds. They are not a black ops unit any longer, they are grey ops. My comment is not intended nor should it be construed to mean that I don't have the utmost respect for the 160th SOAR, because I totally respect them and the fact that you don't just get assigned to them, you assess just like they do in SF.

That said, if there is a true black ops Army aviation unit that doesn't exist, although I could be wrong I would bet $100 this nonexistant unit is the actual operators of this intersting Blackhawk variant. I'm just sayin....

160th have had chinooks in afghanistan... I don't see it as a stretch that they're still flying black as they've been seen flying blackhawks and chinooks for the last 5 years - they've done trade with coalition forces. that dosn't mean that others are there. not all participating SF bring their own "trucks". Aust, UK and obvbiously the US being an exception to the rule

 

[t68]

Don’t know how to take this article, but if it is true looks like relations between the two countries will take another hit after the Obama raid and questions raised about ISI.

Pakistan arranged examination of crashed U.S. stealth chopper by Chinese engineers, report

If the Chinese did have access wonder how much information they could recover with out physically studying the parts in a lab back in China.

 

[localhost127]

Don’t know how to take this article, but if it is true looks like relations between the two countries will take another hit after the Obama raid and questions raised about ISI.

Pakistan arranged examination of crashed U.S. stealth chopper by Chinese engineers, report

If the Chinese did have access wonder how much information they could recover with out physically studying the parts in a lab back in China.

if it was that important, wouldn't there have been a UAV targeting vs the remains?