Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

FPB Sell to Timor Leste

From Tempo Interactive with Google translate:

TEMPO Interactive, Jakarta - Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro said Indonesia Sells marine patrol boats (fast patrol boat) to Timor Leste. The ship made ​​by PT PAL Indonesia is 30-40 meters in length. East Timor does not need to buy with consideration of large vessels in its territorial reach.

"they'd like to order two ships," Purnomo said after a lunch banquet with President Yudhoyono, Timor Leste Prime Minister Xanana Gusmao at the State Palace on Tuesday (22 / 3).
Purnomo said the purchase of the ship was East Timor's proposed export credits to Indonesia. The Indonesian government Also Provide Agreed and ready to export export credit guarantee agencies through Indonesia (LPEI). In this transaction, Indonesian patrol boats per unit U.S. Sells $ 20 million or around Rp 175 billion.

Also Indonesia received orders three Landing Platform Dock ships, the which cans accommodate helicopters, from the Philippines. This ship is not only Used for Transporting Troops, but Also for disaster management operations. This purchase through a credit facility with the signing of the government to government "But now it has not implemented yet," he said.

After 11 years of Independence, Timor Leste now ready to buy armament from Indonesia. That's show how much things has change. USD 20 mio price tag each is the same neighbourhood that they pay for each Shanghai FPB from China.
Still for me the interesting thing is the claim that Indonesia (in this case PAL) got order from Philipine for 3 LPD. Well if this true then Makasar class really begining to break market especially for developing country.

 

[gvg]

Indonesia eyes locally built warships

The Indonesian government is looking forward to building its own warships in order to strengthen the country's defense systems and reduce its dependence on foreign countries for warships, local media reported on Wednesday.

Next month, state-owned shipbuilding company PT PAL, in cooperation with Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding of the Netherlands, will begin designing light corvettes -- ships designed for anti-submarine warfare -- for the Indonesian Navy in anticipation of their construction in the country. The warships will be the largest ever produced by a local shipbuilding firm.

The government has also given the green light for the building of a submarine beginning in 2014. The sub will be built after the Indonesian government selects the specifications, the type of submarine it desires and which countries will be chosen to transfer the technology to Indonesia.

So far four countries -- France, Russia, Germany and South Korea have emerged as contenders, but the government has not made a decision about which country will be chosen to build the initial sub.

Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro discussed the government' s plans at a ceremony for the handover of a domestically made warship -- the KRI Banda Aceh 593 -- to the Navy in Surabaya, East Java, recently. "The government has decided to build its own submarine. But building a submarine cannot be done hastily because its technology is complicated. We are still designing it, what kind of submarine and what is suitable for Indonesian waters," Yusgiantoro was quoted by the Jakarta Post as saying.

Indonesian Military (TNI) Chief Adm. Agus Suhartono said at the ceremony that Indonesia's waters were distinctive as its western seas were shallow and the east had deep waters, therefore choosing a suitable submarine was essential.

Agus said the initial submarine would be built in the country that possessed the right technology. "The second, the third and the following submarines will be built here and at the same time will be accompanied by a transfer of technology," Agus said.

PT PAL President Harsusanto said his company was ready to build the submarines and the corvette warships as long as it was given a chance to learn. "The proof is the Banda Aceh warship. We turned out to be able to build warships by ourselves. If we can do this, we will also be able to produce others," he said.

PT PAL strives to use local products for defense items built domestically so as to save money. The government promised to continuously renew all TNI defense equipment in stages by the year 2024.

Out of the country's four LPD warships, each with a capacity of 507 personnel, ordered from Daewoo International, two were built in Indonesia by PT PAL and two in South Korea. The ships were 15.4 million U.S. dollars each.

The 125-meter long warships were specially designed to accommodate a 100mm cannon launcher and equipped with a combat information center for its main weapons control system.

The ships are capable of traveling for 30 days and can contain two landing craft carriers, tank carriers, combat vehicles, tactical vehicles, troop carriers and five helicopters.

Source

 

[swerve]

Still for me the interesting thing is the claim that Indonesia (in this case PAL) got order from Philipine for 3 LPD. Well if this true then Makasar class really begining to break market especially for developing country.

I agree. If true, it's a very interesting development.

Ever since I found out about the Makasar class, I've thought it's pretty well ideal for some countries. It may not have the high-end systems or quality of accommodation of a new W. European LPD, & it's a bit slow, but I reckon it's an immensely better buy than an old, clapped-out secondhand LPD or LST, which is the alternative at that price. It should be cheaper to operate, & will have much more life.

Should be extremely useful for disaster relief & for transport to remote places with poor or non-existent ports, as well as being capable, if ever needed, of landing troops, AFVs, etc.

The Philippines is an obvious customer. Short of money, & with lots of islands.

 

[Ananda]

I agree. If true, it's a very interesting development.

Ever since I found out about the Makasar class, I've thought it's pretty well ideal for some countries. It may not have the high-end systems or quality of accommodation of a new W. European LPD, & it's a bit slow, but I reckon it's an immensely better buy than an old, clapped-out secondhand LPD or LST, which is the alternative at that price. It should be cheaper to operate, & will have much more life.

Should be extremely useful for disaster relief & for transport to remote places with poor or non-existent ports, as well as being capable, if ever needed, of landing troops, AFVs, etc.

The Philippines is an obvious customer. Short of money, & with lots of islands.

The design actually is a modular one. You can put whatever systems and accomodation that the customers choose. It's frame and hull build to modern LPD standard, but what you're going to put will depends on your wallet.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

From Tempo Interactive with Google translate:



After 11 years of Independence, Timor Leste now ready to buy armament from Indonesia. That's show how much things has change. USD 20 mio price tag each is the same neighbourhood that they pay for each Shanghai FPB from China.

Would it be the KCR 40 Nasional or the FPB 38 (last picture)?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I agree. If true, it's a very interesting development.

Ever since I found out about the Makasar class, I've thought it's pretty well ideal for some countries. It may not have the high-end systems or quality of accommodation of a new W. European LPD, & it's a bit slow, but I reckon it's an immensely better buy than an old, clapped-out secondhand LPD or LST, which is the alternative at that price. It should be cheaper to operate, & will have much more life.

Should be extremely useful for disaster relief & for transport to remote places with poor or non-existent ports, as well as being capable, if ever needed, of landing troops, AFVs, etc.

The Philippines is an obvious customer. Short of money, & with lots of islands.

The KRI Banda Aceh 593 (delivered to TNI-AL at 21 March 2011), the latest one. I think its a good choice if Filipina orders one of this class....

 

[StevoJH]

If the price in that article is correct, The Indonesian Navy paid less for an LPD then the RAN paid for each Armidale Class Patrol Boat...

 

[Kirkzzy]

If the price in that article is correct, The Indonesian Navy paid less for an LPD then the RAN paid for each Armidale Class Patrol Boat...

-sigh- damn Aussie prices.

 

[weegee]

If the price in that article is correct, The Indonesian Navy paid less for an LPD then the RAN paid for each Armidale Class Patrol Boat...

Those patrol boats look smaller than the armidale's don't they? Maybe that is the price difference?

 

[StevoJH]

Those patrol boats look smaller than the armidale's don't they? Maybe that is the price difference?

The Makassar class LPD's are considerably larger then an Armidale class Patrol Boat.

Armidale Class
Class and type: Patrol boat
Displacement: 270 tons
Length: 56.8 metres (186 ft)
Beam: 9.5 metres (31 ft)
Draught: 2.25 metres (7.4 ft)
Propulsion: 2 x MTU 16V M70 2,320 kW diesels driving twin propellers
Speed: 25 knots (46 km/h; 29 mph)
Range: 3,000 nautical miles (5,600 km; 3,500 mi) at 12 knots (22 km/h; 14 mph)

Makassar class
Type: Landing Platform Dock
Tonnage: 8400 tons
Displacement: 7,300 tons standard displacement, 11,394 tons full displacement
Length: 122 meters ~ 125 meters (for Indonesian version)
Beam: 22 meters
Height: 56 meters
Draft: 4.9 meters
Decks: (Tank Deck); 6.7 meter,(Truck Deck); 11.3 meter
Propulsion: CODAD, 2 shafts, 2 x MAN B&W 8L28/32A diesel rated at 2666 BHP/1960 kW@ 775 RPM
Speed: Maximum: 16 knots, Cruising: 14 knots
Economy: 12 knots
Range: 30 days, up to 10,000 Nm

Ref: Wikipedia

 

[weegee]

The Makassar class LPD's are considerably larger then an Armidale class Patrol Boat.

Armidale Class
Class and type: Patrol boat
Displacement: 270 tons
Length: 56.8 metres (186 ft)
Beam: 9.5 metres (31 ft)
Draught: 2.25 metres (7.4 ft)
Propulsion: 2 x MTU 16V M70 2,320 kW diesels driving twin propellers
Speed: 25 knots (46 km/h; 29 mph)
Range: 3,000 nautical miles (5,600 km; 3,500 mi) at 12 knots (22 km/h; 14 mph)

Makassar class
Type: Landing Platform Dock
Tonnage: 8400 tons
Displacement: 7,300 tons standard displacement, 11,394 tons full displacement
Length: 122 meters ~ 125 meters (for Indonesian version)
Beam: 22 meters
Height: 56 meters
Draft: 4.9 meters
Decks: (Tank Deck); 6.7 meter,(Truck Deck); 11.3 meter
Propulsion: CODAD, 2 shafts, 2 x MAN B&W 8L28/32A diesel rated at 2666 BHP/1960 kW@ 775 RPM
Speed: Maximum: 16 knots, Cruising: 14 knots
Economy: 12 knots
Range: 30 days, up to 10,000 Nm

Ref: Wikipedia

UM yeah I would say so just by a little bit though :

 

[StevoJH]

UM yeah I would say so just by a little bit though :

The Armidales also only have a design life of 15 years (lightweight aluminium construction). Which means they'll need replacing between 2020 and 2023.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Steel is cheap and air is free. Aluminium is expensive and so is Australian labour.

Theres a pretty big difference in systems and fit out.

I think the OCV concept with a 3,000t ship isn't a bad idea. Esp if we can get it for simular prices.

 

[Ananda]

Steel is cheap and air is free. Aluminium is expensive and so is Australian labour.

Theres a pretty big difference in systems and fit out.

I think the OCV concept with a 3,000t ship isn't a bad idea. Esp if we can get it for simular prices.

Just wandering, I know the attractiveness for Alluminium superstructures for light weight naval vessels like OPV, or FPB. Even now, the new generations locally build Indonesian FPB like KCR 40 and FPB 38 uses extensive alluminium as superstructures.

However are those present day alluminium are more adaptable for Naval standard ? Considering the Sheffield in the Falkland war, many 'pundits' at that time say that if Sheffield used less Alluminium for their superstructures, then it's possible she still can be salvage after hit by Argentinian exocet.

Or just because the OPV's and FPB's considered has to be light enough, and relatively cheap that extensive Alluminium still can be considered acceptable ?

 

[SASWanabe]

Steel is cheap and air is free. Aluminium is expensive and so is Australian labour.

Theres a pretty big difference in systems and fit out.

I think the OCV concept with a 3,000t ship isn't a bad idea. Esp if we can get it for simular prices.

i was under the impression the navy was looking for a vessel upto 2000t... and theyre expected to cost atleast 150m each...

 

[StevoJH]

Just wandering, I know the attractiveness for Alluminium superstructures for light weight naval vessels like OPV, or FPB. Even now, the new generations locally build Indonesian FPB like KCR 40 and FPB 38 uses extensive alluminium as superstructures.

The superstructure doesnt have to withstand the same forces as the hull, and using an aluminium superstructure reduces weight, resulting in increased stability and a larger margin for upgrades off the same sized hull.

However are those present day alluminium are more adaptable for Naval standard ? Considering the Sheffield in the Falkland war, many 'pundits' at that time say that if Sheffield used less Alluminium for their superstructures, then it's possible she still can be salvage after hit by Argentinian exocet.

The first T42's were built to a very low budgets and had constraints such as not having redundancy with regards to fire fighting equipment and power, thats probably why she was lost. Do any of the British members know if this was later rectified?

Or just because the OPV's and FPB's considered has to be light enough, and relatively cheap that extensive Alluminium still can be considered acceptable ?

Thats the thing though, the electronics and weapons fitout on the Armidale class made them very expensive ships, the RAN would have been better off spending the money on larger steel OPV's with the same electronics and weapons fitout, probably wouldn't have been any more expensive and they'd last longer.

 

[rip]

The superstructure doesnt have to withstand the same forces as the hull, and using an aluminium superstructure reduces weight, resulting in increased stability and a larger margin for upgrades off the same sized hull.



The first T42's were built to a very low budgets and had constraints such as not having redundancy with regards to fire fighting equipment and power, thats probably why she was lost. Do any of the British members know if this was later rectified?



Thats the thing though, the electronics and weapons fitout on the Armidale class made them very expensive ships, the RAN would have been better off spending the money on larger steel OPV's with the same electronics and weapons fitout, probably wouldn't have been any more expensive and they'd last longer.

The Aluminum verses the use of steel debate in the superstructures of warships has been going on for years. I am a steel man myself but Aluminum does have its advantages in both maintenance and in the way that it effects a ships sea keeping ability as it then effects its stability as a weapons platform.

First, steel is cheaper both in materials used and in the production process. That is why it is used in all the big cargo haulers. But commercial ships nowadays only last from between fifteen to twenty years before they are replaced with new usully biger ships, skimping on the maintenance of them to save money, while Warships are expected to last up to thirty or more years.

Aluminum has far better corrosion fighting properties above the water line and require less upkeep for use in superstructures. but its disadvantage are is its ability to withstand battle damage. It is less less less resistance to penetration and it softens when in a fire at a lower temperature than steel.

The great change in warship design principals happened after WW II when after with the creation of atomic weapons the idea that armor in warships was a useless asset became common though there where other advantages not stated. That is how they thought back then abot warship desine. I don't agree but I don't get to order warships. Going into all the reasons and the tactical realities of that time might be interesting to those that are interested but the reality of today is simply that it has become the standard way of doing things and nobody that counts within the decision tree that buys warships, cares to change their ways.

 

[Ananda]

Yakhont Installation in KRI Oswald S.

First picture on Yakhonts installations on board KRI Owa (Oswald S.) one of the Van Speijk as the first vessel equiped with Yakhont. This missiles will be conducting test firing before the end of the month.

The Picture from Antara News Agency sources. The pictures confirm that Yakhont installations on KRI Owa are VLS, located on the side of Van Speijk aft hanggar. The Installations, and syatem integrations conducted locally by PT. PAL in their Surabaya's facility.

On other news, TNI-AL confirm 2 of the Van Speijk already near Somali waters, due to hijacking of one Indonesian Frieghters. But the military recue operations seems going to be abandoned, due to the fact the hijackers manage to bring the Indonesian cargo ship to the protected port, before the fregats come to the waters. The Government now goes to negotiations stage instead.

Those two news show that the 6 Van Speijk already back in to their full operational readiness and will be maintained at least untill 2020.

 

[Ananda]

Yakhont Test Fire

Pictures from Vivanews.Com

On 20th of April 2011 at 10:30 AM (western Indonesia time), KRI OSwald Siahaan, one of 6 Van Speijk fregats in TNI AL inventory sucessfully fires Yakhont missile to a target (decommisioned US build LST) 250 Kilometers from the fregat.

From the Pictures it's clear the possitions of Yakhont VLS on the side of Aft Hanggar.

 

[Ananda]

Sea-Cat Modfification

On the same occasion with the test firing of Yakhont, the same Van Speijk Frigate also test fire, locally modified Sea Cat. The modified Sea Cat now being fired from the Aft of the Frigate (from previous possitions above hanggar) on singgle launching pad. On the test two singgle launching pad for Sea Cat being prepared on the Aft possitions of the Frigate.

It's still not clear what the extend of modifications, besides installations and Launching Pad. However some unconfirmed report told that the moddifications also include replacing old propelant, and Electronic sensors. The report claim that modified sea cat performed better than Mistral that being procured as the replacement of Original Sea Cat in the first place.