Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

Found another photo's from Indo-defences for PAL LST concept and PALINDO (shipyard in Batam) for 40m Missiles FAC. Interestingly PAL also come out with concept for 40 m Missiles FAC. Seems it's going to be a tossed-up who's going to win for 40 m Missiles FAC. This can turn out to be big, since Min-def already indicated that bulk for Indonesian Green Water navies will be this 40 m FAC.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Found another photo's from Indo-defences for PAL LST concept and PALINDO (shipyard in Batam) for 40m Missiles FAC. Interestingly PAL also come out with concept for 40 m Missiles FAC. Seems it's going to be a tossed-up who's going to win for 40 m Missiles FAC. This can turn out to be big, since Min-def already indicated that bulk for Indonesian Green Water navies will be this 40 m FAC.

Thanks for posting, do you have technical specs of these projects? The 40m PB looks quite nice...

 

[Ananda]

Thanks for posting, do you have technical specs of these projects? The 40m PB looks quite nice...

Ugghhh..I forgot to get the Brochures from Palindo booth . However the 40m FAC from PAL is more futuristic in design, if seeing Ficantieri sites, For me seems the PAL FAC have shares some atributes with Fincantieri design I've some difficulties with my scanner, but will try to up load the brochures some othertime.

However I think the Tech Specs both design will shares many simmilarities; like the displacement will be in the range of 190 -210 dwt, Diesel propulsions, with operational range will be around 1800 - 2200 nm, Max speed will be around 28 - 32 knots, and will be crewed by 24 - 26 pc.

For crew that size's and compared to the dimmension of this boats, I believe the level of automations will only be moderate for present standard. But anyways, TNI AL haven't facing manning problem, thus moderate automations still acceptable I think.

 

[Ananda]

From Antara News Agency with Google Translate:

Chief of Naval Staff (Kasal), Admiral TNI Soeparno, confirmed that the Navy will do destruction/liquidation of 12 ships of war under the Military Sea Lift Command (Kolinlamil) as part of the sea defense equipment renewal program ..

"Yes, the ships can not operate the machine, we do over-haul, or re-powering. And if you absolutely can not be replaced so we will replace with new supply," he said in Jakarta on Thursday (25/11).

This was conveyed after the transfer of function Commander Military Sea Lift (Kolinlamil), currently there are elements which consisted of six ships LST had an average age of 60-70 years. This ship was due time to be replaced, "he said.

The six LSTs, among others, the KRI Teluk Langsa 501, KRI Teluk Bayur 502, KRI Teluk You're 504, KRI Teluk Tomini 508, KRI Teluk Ratai 509, KRI Teluk Saleh 510, and KRI Teluk Bone 511 former United States Navy made in 1942-1945, of which is used in amphibious operations on the coast of Normandy during World War 2.

On a separate occasion, President Director of PT PAL Harsusanto say until 2014 PT PAL has received a contract from the Department of Defense and the Navy, two submarines, two missile destroyer escort (PKR), 11 units of KCR-40, seven units of a transport tank (LST), 17 units of amphibious tanks, and 25 units under Navy Capacity Rejunevations.

This is just confirmations that Military Sea Lift Command LST's will be replaced by new build LST's from PAL. Thus the model of 117 m LST's that PAL's show in the Indo-Defences seems will come to the productions soon.
The Amphibious forces being divided with those on Regular Fleet and those on Military Sea Lift Command. The LPD's under regular Fleet, whille LST's under Military Sea Lift Command.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesian Marines Planned to Increase BMP-3 Inventory

From TNI-AL sites, with pictures from Kompas and Antara (downloaded from Defense-stuides.blogpsot sites).

After passing the test (test functions) through amphibious operations, the test firing range with various distances and various types amonisi owned the place at Combat Training Centre, Karangtekok, Situbondo, East Java, and witnessed by Defence Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro, Armed Forces Commander Admiral TNI Agus Suhartono, Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Soeparno TNI, Commander of Marine Corps Maj. Gen. (Mar) M. Alfan Baharudin, the Indonesian Ambassador in Russia and the Russian Ambassador in Indonesia, Saturday (11/12) 17 units of modern tanks BMP-3F amphibian type purchased Russian-made Indonesian government official held and complete the weapon system of the Navy Marine Corps.

Test function of the 17th unit amphibious tank landing troops is to ensure all equipment and supplies as well as tank weapons systems operate well and perfect. After testing the function continued with the official handover of BMP-3F from Rosoboronexport, Russia to the Ministry of Defence and Armed Forces and the Navy Marine Corps as a user.

BMP-3F amphibian tanks produced Russian armored fighting vehicle is perfect both in terms of technology and the needs of today's battles. At the trial in a variety of terrain and weather, tanks of this type showed satisfactory results. Various amonisi used from 100 mm, 30 mm, 7.62 mm and 81 mm smoke grenade accuracy showed a very precise and almost perfect. Reach shots as far as 4000 meters in which the ten target areas located in Puslatpur successfully destroyed appropriately.

BMP-3F amphibian tanks have undergone improvements, particularly for the ability to maneuver at sea with the addition of Snorkel (air circulation when maneuvering at sea space forces remain normal), improvement in the dome shield to withstand the waves and waves of sea water for tanks remained stable to the invasion beaches. With a few improvements, BMP-3F to combat all-terrain vehicles and offset by defensive maneuvers and a more resilient.

BMP-3F applicated new weapons (artillery, rockets and cannon) with automatic firing control system and be able to shoot right from all types of weapons both during the maneuver / move because it uses a controller that technologically advanced automatic shooting (pattern system stabilizers new technology). Construction weaponry BMP-3F is the combination in a single component (single-turet): cannon, 100 mm caliber rocket launchers, automatic cannon caliber 30 mm and 7.62 mm caliber submachine. This integration allows the warrior tank crews can choose models that are available for the use of weapons associated with the situation, as well as battlefield conditions, depending on the selected target to be destroyed both targets on land, sea or air.

BMP-3F weighs approximately 18.7 tons, length 8 m, width 3.5 meters and 2.5 meters high, capacity 10 men crew consisting of 3 tanks and 7 crew weapons, speed on the muddy field 45 km, 70 km on the highway, 10 km in the water and able to walk backwards with a speed of 20 km. While the ability to cruise 600 km, in the mud 12 kilometers and cruising on the water 7 hours. BMP-3F Tank has some special features such as construction (chassis) that allow for modernized, in addition to easy maintenance and efficient pemelihanaannya.

According to Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro, Tank BMP-3F amphibian tanks which are the most modern technology is owned by the TNI and the last generation produced by Russia. Delivery of the 17 BMP-3F Tank unit is part of the Long Term Development Plan military posture to meet the principal military power. "To enhance the ability of Marine Corps combat vehicles of the Navy, we still need 95 tanks like BMP, ie, 81 units type BMP-3F, 10 units of type BMP-3FK, and 4 units of type BREM-L. Will we meet this need gradually in times to come, "he said.

Well, if he plans for 95 BMP-3 including command versions (BMP-3FK) and Logistics/Maintenances (BREM-L), then BMP-3 set to replaced not only PT-76 but also AMX-10P.

 

[gvg]

From AntaraNews

TNI asks Netherlands to support frigate building project

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - The National Defense Forces (TNI) has asked the Dutch government to consistently support the development of a light frigate by Indonesian ship-building company PT PAL.

"Yes, we have asked the Dutch to be more consistent in supervising the development of the ship as there are things that PT PAL cannot yet do," TNI spokesman Commodore Iskandar Sitompul said here on Tuesday.

PT PAL is developing a light frigate-type missile destroyer under supervision of Dutch ship-building company Schelde.

Asked about the program after he had attended a closed-door meeting between TNI Commander Admiral Agus Suhartono and Dutch ambassador Tjeerd F De Zwaan, Sitompul said Dutch consistency in helping carry out the program was needed.

"This is done in the framework of revitalizing national defense industry especially PT PAL to meet the needs of TNI weaponry including a light frigate," he said.

The Indonesian navy is striving to improve its combat power in the framework of meeting its minimum strength requirements by modernizing its weaponry. Right now it has 154 warships of various types and the number is to be increased to 274.

With regard to that the defense ministry has launched a light fregat destroyer development program in cooperation with the Netherlands. The ministry expects to build 20 units.

The program is estimated to cost US$220 million and take four years to finish.

Besides discussing the frigate development program they had also disucssed various matters relating to the two countries` bilateral relations including the relations between the two countries` armies, he said.

ANTARA News: TNI asks Netherlands to support frigate building project

 

[Ananda]

India's Offer ??

From Media Indonesia with Google Translate :

JAKARTA - MICOM: Government of India offers joint missile production to Indonesia. The offer was made Chief of Staff of Indian Navy Admiral Nirmal Kumar Verma during an official visit to Mindef, Jakarta, Tuesday (11 / 1).

"India wants to offer cooperation. Well, the extent of our abilities because of many times they offered to us Brahmos missiles. It has created and offered to us. However we already buy the Yakhont missile. Still hopefully we can have co-operation forward," said Mindef Public Relations Head.

Well this is first time Mindef source admitted they already buy Yakhont (for the Navy). India continue to push for Brahmos, which again keep me wandering why India seems going on solo on this. The Russians seems more willing to market Yakhont rather than Brahmos to us. Same thing with Pakistan that comming offering FC-1/F-17, whille the Chinese when comming to us offering other stuff like J-10.

Are Russian and Chinese not supporting their partner in marketing their (Joint) products ??

 

[Ananda]

Funding for Dewaruci Replacement being set

From Republica online with Google Translate:

REPUBLIKA.CO.ID, JAKARTA - Navy Headquarters allocates Rp720 billion (USD 80 million), for procurement of high-mast sailing ship replaces the ship KRI Dewaruci. "Age KRI Dewaruci is now 58 years old. So it was time to retire and with that much money. We need to substitute ," said Kasal Admiral TNI Soeparno in Jakarta, Wednesday (12 / 1).

Soeparno Kasal explained, KRI Dewaruci created in 1952 by HC Stulchen & Sohn Hamburg, Germany and was first launched on January 24, 1953. In July 1953, steered the ship from Germany to Indonesia by the cadets and cadet AAL to be a cadet training ship of the Navy.

KRI Dewaruci with a length of 58.30 meters, 9.50 meters wide hull, the draft of 4.50 meters, and 847 tons deadweight, has been equipped with advanced navigation systems and computerization.
Ship type "Barquentin" has three main pillars with 16 screens. In addition, the ship is equipped with a diesel engine-powered PK 986 with a maximum speed of 10.5 knots.

Until now the Headquarters of the Navy are still doing the assessment to a number of countries capable of making such high-mast sailing ship KRI Dewaruci. Admiral Soeparno hope KRI Dewaruci replacement can already be operationalized in 2014.

"Later, KRI Dewaruci would still be used. But for missions that are not too heavy shipping in the country," he said. Aside from being a training ship for Navy cadets, then Dewaruci muhibahnya each year in the series also runs RI diplomatic missions in foreign countries

Well it seems the Old Girl will be keep afloat after retirement, and not becoming Museum piece or even being scrap. This also confirm the replacement for this High Mast traning ship will come from outside Indonesia (seems aiming to Europe), thus neglected using local Phinisi High Mast design. Seems the Navy concluded that local High Mast design is not suitable enough for cross the ocean trip (which Dewaruci and the Replacement expected to do).

 

[STURM]

Had a close look at the Dewaruci in 1990 during the International Fleet Review in Penang. Beautiful ship.

Are there any parts of KRI Irian on display at museums or was the whole ship sent for scrap?

 

[Ananda]

Had a close look at the Dewaruci in 1990 during the International Fleet Review in Penang. Beautiful ship.

Are there any parts of KRI Irian on display at museums or was the whole ship sent for scrap?

KRI Irian ? Well it's all load, stock and barrel scrap right away on early 70's. Getting rid KRI Irian, and Mig 21 seems the deal that Soeharto's struck with the US on the early time he's in power. USAF souces admitted some of early Mig-21 examples they have (to test) come from Indonesia.

Well some sources in TNI-AU says that they actually think can maintain those Mig-21 up until late 70's when F-5 came, so it's rather sorry Soeharto decided that those Mig-21 was to be sent away or grounded right away. However not for KRI Irian. Even on the best of time in the 60's, TNI AL has difficulty to operated that Sverdlov class cruisers properly.

 

[STURM]

KRI Irian ? Well it's all load, stock and barrel scrap right away on early 70's.

Thanks. I was wondering if perhaps a turret or something from the Irian had been preserved at a museum. If i'm not mistaken there is a preserved Whiskey SSK at Surabaya.

 

[Ananda]

Thanks. I was wondering if perhaps a turret or something from the Irian had been preserved at a museum. If i'm not mistaken there is a preserved Whiskey SSK at Surabaya.

Well the only thing that being preserved from KRI Irian is the model of that ship in the Armed Forces museum. The existances of that ship I believe was politically sensitive in the region at that time, and I believe Soeharto simply want to get rid of that ship to gain some leverage with the US.

Those whiskey on the other hand some of them still operational until early 80's when 209 from German come to replace them. They can survive nearly 20 years partly by canibalizing some of the fleet and using western parts (like dry battery from UK).

 

[STURM]

The existances of that ship I believe was politically sensitive in the region at that time, and I believe Soeharto simply want to get rid of that ship to gain some leverage with the US.

I think the Badgers and SA-2's operated by AURI and the Whiskey's, would have been more politicly sensitive.Even before the break in relations with the USSR, the Irian I believe was hardly putting to sea. The reason was most probably difficulties in getting spares and that she was maintenance intensive and expensive to support. A thaw in relations with Uncle Sam led to Indonesia getting 4 Claude class frigates.

 

[Ananda]

I think the Badgers and SA-2's operated by AURI and the Whiskey's, would have been more politicly sensitive.Even before the break in relations with the USSR, the Irian I believe was hardly putting to sea. The reason was most probably difficulties in getting spares and that she was maintenance intensive and expensive to support. A thaw in relations with Uncle Sam led to Indonesia getting 4 Claude class frigates.

Well, on the abbility yes, TU-16 and Whiskey supposedly more worrying than one Sverdlov class cruiser. However that Sverdlov cruiser represent an ocean going offensive capabilities (at least for the 60's). Something that US at that time did not want any SEA country had.
Just like you said, and I said also previously, even in the best time, KRI Irian was already difficult to maintain for TNI-AL. However Whiskey subs seems be compromised between Soeharto and the US to be maintain since it's only Patrol SSK anyway, and even by late 60's already considered obsolete.

 

[STURM]

However Whiskey subs seems be compromised between Soeharto and the US to be maintain since it's only Patrol SSK anyway, and even by late 60's already considered obsolete.

After Suharto was toppled and relations were improved with Uncle Sam, I'm not sure if the Soviets continued to provide spares for the Whiskeys [the first regional country to operate subs was Thailand which purchased 4 Mitsubishi made submarines]. At a time when the armed forces of Malaysia and Singapore consisted of only light infantry battalions, patrol boats and light transport planes, the military of Indonesia in the early 60's was very impressive.

 

[Ananda]

After Suharto was toppled and relations were improved with Uncle Sam, I'm not sure if the Soviets continued to provide spares for the Whiskeys [the first regional country to operate subs was Thailand which purchased 4 Mitsubishi made submarines]. At a time when the armed forces of Malaysia and Singapore consisted of only light infantry battalions, patrol boats and light transport planes, the military of Indonesia in the early 60's was very impressive.

Ahh you mean after Soekarno's toppled and Soeharto's secured the office . I've been read some old soviet sources and western analyst on the time of transitions from Soekarno to Soeharto.
The Soviet in the beginning still want to support Soeharto especially since The Indonesian Communist Party hardliners that involved with 1965 coup mostly leaning to Beijing and not Moscow. Moreover on early years, Soeharto choose Adam Malik a long time Socialist that quite friendly to Moscow as his foreign minister.

But it soon change by 69-70 when Soeharto decided that even Moscow friendly socialist (not communist) can't be tollerate on his New Order regime. Indonesian Armed forces by the 60's is quite impresive for the region standard at that time (infact until now, TNI has not fully back to 60's relative posture), however it's also hard to maintain properly by Indonesian Economics at that time. Afterall it's maintained by Soviet subsidies and some even by US subsidies, proved on Soekarno's ability in Diplomacy to coerce as much as he can from the two Superpowers.

 

[STURM]

Ahh you mean after Soekarno's toppled and Soeharto's secured the office .

Sorry, yes I meant Sukarno. I sometimes mix up the two names . .
Which is the proper spelling used in BI - Soeharto or Suharto? Of the 3 services, the AURI I believe was the most pro-communist at the time of the attempted communist take over in 65.

Did you watch the movie 'A Year of Living Dangerously' ? Got a copy recently of ''Confrontation, the War with Indonesia'' by Nick Van Der Bijl. It's a good read and worth buying.

 

[Ananda]

Sorry, yes I meant Sukarno. I sometimes mix up the two names . .
Which is the proper spelling used in BI - Soeharto or Suharto? Of the 3 services, the AURI I believe was the most pro-communist at the time of the attempted communist take over in 65.

Did you watch the movie 'A Year of Living Dangerously' ? Got a copy recently of ''Confrontation, the War with Indonesia'' by Nick Van Der Bijl. It's a good read and worth buying.

In Bahasa Indonesia new pronounciations (new means after 70's) the right spelling is Suharto. 'u' in the old pronounciations was spelled 'oe', just like 'c' was spelled 'tj' and 'j' was spelled 'dj' in the old ones. The new pronounciations was aimed to reduced 'dutch' influences on modern Bahasa Indonesia.

AURI was not 'pro' communist..but more 'pro' Soekarno..or AURI full with more Soekarnoist Nasionalist. At that time the Soekarnoist Nationalist tended to be more 'friendly' with Indonesian Communist party due to their 'Revolutionary' nature. It's not surprising since AURI officers hyrarchies consists more on youngers people then the other two services, especially the Army. Thus they tended to be more revolutionary compared to more conservative Army.

Suharto breakdown on the Air Force when he's comming in to the power, related with the deal he has with US, and also with his insistances to clamp down the Air Force as the last bastion of Soekarnoist idea in the Armed Forces. Only after he's confidence that the Air Force already in the hand of his selected officers, he began to build the Air Force again.

Thanks for your suggestion on the books, will try to find it here.

 

[Ananda]

Yakhont Trials

From Antara News Agency http://www.antaranews.com/berita/243374/tni-al-akan-uji-persenjataan-strategisnya with Google translate:

JAKARTA - The Navy will test a number of strategic weapons. Like the missile to ensure the readiness of major weapons systems equipment and personnel dimension of the sea in anticipation of threats following the emergence of the strategic environment that occurred.

"Test of weaponry was intended to improve the management, maintenance, repairs in order to achieve optimal preparedness," said Chief of Staff of the Navy (Kasal) Admiral TNI Soeparno on the sidelines of the TNI leadership meeting Navy (KSAL) 2011 in Jakarta, Tuesday (25 / 1).

He added that one of the strategic weapons to be tested is Yakhont Russian-made missiles. Some reliability Yakhont missiles that are not owned antipermukaan previous Navy is Yakhont has a maximum speed of up to 2.5 Mach. Plus Yakhont have a range of very distant, unsparing 300 kilometers.

"The two last capabilities, which until now has not held our ranks of anti-ship missile navy. Yakhont can be fired from Surabaya to target in Yogyakarta," said Kasal.

As is known Navy already has MM38/40 Exocet missiles, Harpoon and C802. But beyond that, Yakhont have weights and dimensions are somewhat laregr in its class. The price of a unit Yakhont estimated to be about 1.2 million U.S. dollars.

Currently, 16 KRI already installed Yakhont missiles on ships of six frigates and 10 species in corvette warships. Each frigates set of eight units Yakhont, corvettes, while as many as four units. Installation is conducted entirely by PT PAL in Surabaya.

The trial will be conducted in the Indies Ocean in February

Well according to this info from Navy (TNI-AL), PT. Pal already sucessfully system integrated Yakhont in to 16 of their ships, in which 6 are ex Dutch Van Speijk frigates, and 10 ex East German Parchim corvetes.

Yakhont is considerable larger than Exocet or Harpoon, so I've doubt on the accuracy of those Journalist interpretations, especially on how many Yakhont that TNI AL ships can carry.

I suspect since Van Speijk it self only Mid-Size Frigates (and based on latest Nato standard can also catagorize as Light Frigates), they each can only take four, whille Parchim can only take two. Van Speijk is Chopper equiped, thus 'theoritically' it's helicopters (currently NBO-105) can be equiped for Mid-Range correction for Yakhont. I don't know if Yakhont can be fully optimised from Parchim Corvetes.

 

[STURM]

Well according to this info from Navy (TNI-AL), PT. Pal already sucessfully system integrated Yakhont in to 16 of their ships, in which 6 are ex Dutch Van Speijk frigates, and 10 ex East German Parchim corvetes.

Vey interesting news. With the Yakhont the TNI-AL now has the longest range and fastest ASM in the region [not sure if the Vietnamese navy intends on fitting Klub to it's Kilos in the future], off course it all depends on having OTHT to exploit the Yakhont's long range. I very much doubt something like Link Y will be compatible so a Russian data link will most probably be needed.
Apart from the NB-105s, the 737s can also be fitted with data links for OTHT.

Another problem in taking long range shots I think will be in identifying targets, which may be challenging in areas such as major sea lanes which contain lots of commercial shipping.