5th generation aircraft: Is it a real term?

[jessmo24]

There is a debate raging on key publishing ATM discussing the true meaning of aircraft generations. some people are of the opinion that these generations dont even exist.
Most people like me believe that these are the generations.

1st: Jet powered airframes, Guns, subsonic
2nd: Swept wings deltas alumminum alloys, semi-active missiles, radar.
3rd: Analog controls, better radars, better engines, blown flaps, canards,ECM and a host of other aerodynamic advances.
4th: Lifting bodies, BVR, Doppler radar, relaxed stability vortex lift surfaces.
4.5: Advanced avionics, Post stall maneuvering, high AOA. reduced RCS super cruising
5th: VLO, sensor fusion, super cruise, all in the same package.

Please discuss and note my mistakes. Is the entire generations concepts only something made up by We Americans?

Also, Ill add that some publications, like SLD have long articles concerning 5th generation tactics. Leveraging Vth Generation Aircraft

Are we Americans delusional for Thinking The F-22, F-35, T-50, and possibly the J-x could represent a shift?

 

[SASWanabe]

you do realise there were 2 generations of fighter aircraft before the jet engine was invented right?

 

[SpudmanWP]

When most people speak of fighter generations, they are assuming jet fighters as the baseline.

Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - Fighter Generations
Fighter aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jessmo24]

Indeed, that is the case here.

 

[Scorpion82]

Oh Jessmo dude you carry this topic over from forum to forum don't you? What exactly the purpose of this exercise?

 

[jessmo24]

1. Message boards edutain me.

2. I enjoy a lively debate, and strategy page is a little dead.

3. Since this is my 1st post here id like to feel out the community and see if others share my same opinions.

4. Key publishing doesn't welcome discussion like this.. well its more like they didn't welcome me. If this topic bores you they by all means don't let me bother you.

 

[Scorpion82]

I just asked out of interest as it feels a bit like "I'm looking for a forum where everyone shares my opinion". I don't think it is usually welcomed if people carry over discussions from other forums, especially if such discussions has been beaten to death. But maybe it's just me.

On a general note:
Generations may have first been used by the Americans, but they are a useful way to categorize aircraft in general, as it is done with other technological products.

And yes I think the 5th generation, according the US definition, represents a shift in how battles are fought in the air.

 

[jessmo24]

Im starting to realize the community isnt as
big as I imagined. We all frequent the same boards.
Do Herald and Bluewings have accounts here also?

 

[Feanor]

And yes I think the 5th generation, according the US definition, represents a shift in how battles are fought in the air.

As did most previous generations.

 

[SQDLDR]

There is a debate raging on key publishing ATM discussing the true meaning of aircraft generations. some people are of the opinion that these generations dont even exist.
Most people like me believe that these are the generations.

1st: Jet powered airframes, Guns, subsonic
2nd: Swept wings deltas alumminum alloys, semi-active missiles, radar.
3rd: Analog controls, better radars, better engines, blown flaps, canards,ECM and a host of other aerodynamic advances.
4th: Lifting bodies, BVR, Doppler radar, relaxed stability vortex lift surfaces.
4.5: Advanced avionics, Post stall maneuvering, high AOA. reduced RCS super cruising
5th: VLO, sensor fusion, super cruise, all in the same package.

Please discuss and note my mistakes. Is the entire generations concepts only something made up by We Americans?

Also, Ill add that some publications, like SLD have long articles concerning 5th generation tactics. Leveraging Vth Generation Aircraft

Are we Americans delusional for Thinking The F-22, F-35, T-50, and possibly the J-x could represent a shift?

I'm with SASwannabe on this one. I think you've missed the mark. You've failed to include the 2 generations of aircraft BEFORE the Jet. Many examples of those generational advances can be easily found on the internet. Your logic has the Wright Bros, then RamJet engines. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm American, and I'm delusional.

 

[SQDLDR]

As did most previous generations.

And the generational advances will continue into Space.

 

[jessmo24]

I'm with SASwannabe on this one. I think you've missed the mark. You've failed to include the 2 generations of aircraft BEFORE the Jet. Many examples of those generational advances can be easily found on the internet. Your logic has the Wright Bros, then RamJet engines. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm American, and I'm delusional.

I said, or meant to say JET aircraft. I thought the fact that I was talking about jets was pretty self explanatory.

 

[SQDLDR]

There is a debate raging on key publishing ATM discussing the true meaning of aircraft generations. some people are of the opinion that these generations don't even exist.
Most people like me believe that these are the generations.

1st: Jet powered airframes, Guns, subsonic
2nd: Swept wings deltas aluminum alloys, semi-active missiles, radar.
3rd: Analog controls, better radars, better engines, blown flaps, canards,ECM and a host of other aerodynamic advances.
4th: Lifting bodies, BVR, Doppler radar, relaxed stability vortex lift surfaces.
4.5: Advanced avionics, Post stall maneuvering, high AOA. reduced RCS super cruising
5th: VLO, sensor fusion, super cruise, all in the same package.

Please discuss and note my mistakes. Is the entire generations concepts only something made up by We Americans?

Also, Ill add that some publications, like SLD have long articles concerning 5th generation tactics. Leveraging Vth Generation Aircraft

Are we Americans delusional for Thinking The F-22, F-35, T-50, and possibly the J-x could represent a shift?

There is a debate raging on key publishing ATM discussing the true meaning of aircraft generations. some people are of the opinion that these generations don't even exist.
Most people like me believe that these are the generations.

I'm sorry. I guess I didn't see that part in your lead statement; which I cut and paste above.
Most observers plot the 'generational' movement from conception to "today". Hence the remark about the Wright Bros.
I guess I'm in the minority, as I'm only a newbie 'round these parts.
If your plot point starts with the Me-262, then your "flight line" holds some water.
Your plot points 4 and 4.5 are melded.
If Analog FCs include "fly-by-wire". Is the future digital?
Does the 6th gen tech include:
HSST-Scramjet Tech, UCAV's, service ceilings above 65K, Plasma/Laser Weapons Systems, Integrated VLO, CAD/M, Robotics/NanoTech.
Just asking.

 

[Masquerader]

In his 1990 paper "A Troubling Past: Air Force Fighter Acquisition since 1945", aviation historian Richard P. Hallion defined a 5th-generation jet fighter by the following characteristics:

Refined supersonic aerodynamic design, including canards and variable geometry wings; fourth- and fifth-generation engines; stability augmentation; mixed-gun air-to-air missile (AAM) armament; terrain-following radar for low-level high-speed flight; radar search and fire control; infrared sensors; heads up displays (HUD); laser ranging and targeting; wide range of air-to-surface missiles, bombs, and rockets, including precision-guided munitions. Mach 1.4-2.5.

The same paper also grouped the F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, Mirage 2000, Tornado, MiG-29, and Su-27 into a 6th-generation fighter category defined by the following traits:

Combined the characteristics of the fifth-generation fighters with advances in propulsion, radar (multiple target track-while-scan, look-down/shoot-down), sensor, and electronic flight control technology to generate highly maneuverable, highly agile aircraft that can be swing-roled for air-to-air and air-to-ground missions. Fifth- or sixth-generation gas-turbine engines; engine thrust-to-weight ratios in excess of one; ability to attain supersonic speeds without afterburning; sustained high-G flight, and controllability below 70 knots at angles of attack exceeding 70 degrees. High degree of energy efficiency. Mix of cannon and missile armament, coupled with diverse air-to-ground weaponry. Mach 1.8-2.5.

If Hallion's definition of fifth- and sixth-generation fighters is followed, the F-22, YF-23, F-35, Su-57, J-20, and J-31 would constitute a so-called "7th-generation fighter" category because were designed to use stealth (although the F-22 also features supercruise capability like the F-15, F-14, MiG-29, and Su-27).