Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[meatshield]

Does anyone know where the armoured artillery selection is up to? I read about it ages ago but it has all gone quiet.

Also I read in previous pages that the intent is to keep the Chinook C after the F's have shown up. If this is true it would be brilliant news. Those chooks are worth their weight is gold. You only need a few natural disasters to prove it!

 

[RubiconNZ]

Does anyone know where the armoured artillery selection is up to? I read about it ages ago but it has all gone quiet.

Also I read in previous pages that the intent is to keep the Chinook C after the F's have shown up. If this is true it would be brilliant news. Those chooks are worth their weight is gold. You only need a few natural disasters to prove it!

The SP guns have been delayed and according to the recent release regarding the Artillery Regiments with "field" being removed from their titles they will not be in service to 2017ish.

The Chinooks are D's, and I agree it would make excellent sense once the F's come we send the D's to be refitted to F's 13 Chooks would certainly be most welcome in my opinion.

 

[PeterM]

The SP guns have been delayed and according to the recent release regarding the Artillery Regiments with "field" being removed from their titles they will not be in service to 2017ish.

Does this mean the whole procurement process will start over again in 2-3 years?

Are there any new systems emerging in the interim that could become viable options by 2017 (presumably in addition to the AS9 and Pz2000h)?

 

[RubiconNZ]

Does this mean the whole procurement process will start over again in 2-3 years?

Are there any new systems emerging in the interim that could become viable options by 2017 (presumably in addition to the AS9 and Pz2000h)?

My apologies it is 2016 (confused with LP 17) they will be introduced I got my information from the army news

I am interested myself on the status of it. Is 12 guns per Regiment sufficient it seems like an low number. What is the significance of 3 OP batteries and 1 gun battery.

 

[PeterM]

Does this mean the whole procurement process will start over again in 2-3 years?

Are there any new systems emerging in the interim that could become viable options by 2017 (presumably in addition to the AS9 and Pz2000h)?

After some googling.....

I wonder whether the German Donar could become an option?

From reports the Army liked the Pz2000H. The Donar uses the AGM (derived from the Pz2000H), is a lighter and cheaper, air transportable (likely by C-17), has a lower logistical footprint and a crew of two.

Donar 155-mm Self-Propelled Howitzer | Military-Today.com

Interestingly it seems the Donar could have C-RAM capability.
KMW aims to test C-RAM capability on Donar SPH - Jane's International Defence Review

a couple more links I could find
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4206.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/germ...able_technical_data_sheet_specifications.html

 

[Abraham Gubler]

There is no retender for the LAND 17 guns. What has been happening is a lot of time given to the one motivated tendered to develop the Army’s requirement. Called “offer definition”. The army wanted a L52 155mm gun integrated with AFATDS and it didn’t come off the shelf. The SP gun will be the K9 Thunder.

The reorganisation of the field artillery regiment is explained in the Army News article and earlier on in this thread. In short because of the new digital system (AFATDS) as well as digital communications and location systems the old battery has been split into two components: the fire control element and the gun element. The gun elements from the three batteries have then been combined into a single battery.

 

[PeterM]

There is no retender for the LAND 17 guns. What has been happening is a lot of time given to the one motivated tendered to develop the Army’s requirement. Called “offer definition”. The army wanted a L52 155mm gun integrated with AFATDS and it didn’t come off the shelf. The SP gun will be the K9 Thunder.

The reorganisation of the field artillery regiment is explained in the Army News article and earlier on in this thread. In short because of the new digital system (AFATDS) as well as digital communications and location systems the old battery has been split into two components: the fire control element and the gun element. The gun elements from the three batteries have then been combined into a single battery.

Thanks for the update. Another 5+ years after what has been a protracted process is a considerable delay though.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Thanks for the update. Another 5+ years after what has been a protracted process is a considerable delay though.

It wasn’t protracted from government approval (2006) to tender release (2007). For the ADF that was pretty quick! It will be 10 years from Government 1st pass approval for a self propelled artillery system (2006) to initial operating capability (2016). Because of the significant development requirement in this project such time is to be expected. They aren’t just going down to the local artillery park and ordering new guns off the lot.

 

[meatshield]

It wasn’t protracted from government approval (2006) to tender release (2007). For the ADF that was pretty quick! It will be 10 years from Government 1st pass approval for a self propelled artillery system (2006) to initial operating capability (2016). Because of the significant development requirement in this project such time is to be expected. They aren’t just going down to the local artillery park and ordering new guns off the lot.

I read one time the Duch wanted to swap surplus Pz2000 for bushmasters. Sounded like a good deal at the time. Not sure how many bushmaster they wanted, may have been in the hundreds.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I read one time the Duch wanted to swap surplus Pz2000 for bushmasters. Sounded like a good deal at the time. Not sure how many bushmaster they wanted, may have been in the hundreds.

no, both were outright buys. its not possible for govt to buy on that basis unless its govt to govt - and the govt cannot swap a commercial asset from a vendor to facilitate another sale.

 

[Volkodav]

I see that the USMC is planning 4 MPC (Marine Personnel Carrier) battalions as a supplement to the AAV btns. Who would like to bet which ever design is selected for the MPC becomes a (or the) front runner for the relevant phase of LAND 400?

 

[RubiconNZ]

I see that the USMC is planning 4 MPC (Marine Personnel Carrier) battalions as a supplement to the AAV btns. Who would like to bet which ever design is selected for the MPC becomes a (or the) front runner for the relevant phase of LAND 400?

Is this to replace the USMC LAV 25's?

 

[Kirkzzy]

I've recently been going through really old Land 125/ Project Wundurra news. And the last info I can find on recent developments on the later phases are about 2 or 3 years ago. I've gone to the DMO website, but has there been any news on phase 3 or 4? All the high tech stuff we saw in the initial trials in the early 2000s.

 

[meatshield]

Can someone tell me why we only bought 50 odd M1's. Seams like a small number compared the 100 odd leopards from a few decades ago.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Can someone tell me why we only bought 50 odd M1's. Seams like a small number compared the 100 odd leopards from a few decades ago.

The 100 odd Leopard 1s were brought to equip two armoured regiments but only one was raised. The 50 odd Abrams were brought for only one armoured regiment.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Is this to replace the USMC LAV 25's?

Nope to replace MRAPs and to supplement Amtracs for land mechanisation.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I've recently been going through really old Land 125/ Project Wundurra news. And the last info I can find on recent developments on the later phases are about 2 or 3 years ago. I've gone to the DMO website, but has there been any news on phase 3 or 4? All the high tech stuff we saw in the initial trials in the early 2000s.

That high tech stuff is being realised via the BMS-D (Elbit) which is being rolled out with 6RAR for trials and the new EF88 networked infantry combat weapon which has just finished development and is awaiting pre-production orders. These along with new armour will comprise Soldier Enhancement Version Two (SE v.2) of Land 125.

 

[Kirkzzy]

That high tech stuff is being realised via the BMS-D (Elbit) which is being rolled out with 6RAR for trials and the new EF88 networked infantry combat weapon which has just finished development and is awaiting pre-production orders. These along with new armour will comprise Soldier Enhancement Version Two (SE v.2) of Land 125.

Thanks for that Abraham, got a bit lost in old posts. Seems 6RAR is equipped first a lot of the time, for example with the original F88.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Thanks for that Abraham, got a bit lost in old posts. Seems 6RAR is equipped first a lot of the time, for example with the original F88.

Because its easy to do so. 1 and 2 (2/4) RARs are/were the high readiness units, 5 (5/7) and 7 RAR are mechanised and 3 RAR parachute. All of these battalions have historically had additional training/readiness commitments. 6 RAR is the spare, so to speak. A lot of this has changed in recent years but still 6 RAR comes out as being the easiest battalion to use for trials. In this case big city location (Brisbane) and Bushmaster IMVs provides the best opportunity to trial the new LAND 200 battle management system.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Can someone tell me why we only bought 50 odd M1's. Seams like a small number compared the 100 odd leopards from a few decades ago.

1 Armoured Regiment's Orbat includes 3x combat teams equipped with 13x vehicles per team, with 2x additional vehicles attached to Regimental Headquarters.

Sub-total - 41 vehicles.

The School of Armour is equipped with 11x vehicles to meet Army training requirements. (Individual training requirements).

Sub-total - 52 vehicles.

Army Logistics Training Centre is equipped with 2x vehicles. (Maintenance training).

Sub-total - 54 vehicles.

Attrition and repair (deep maintenance pool) fleet comprises 5x vehicles.

Total - 59x vehicles.

That is what 1 Armd Regt had when the Leo AS1's were in-service too. Nearly half the Leo fleet were never actually issued to a unit, for reasons best known to Government...