Modern Military of Vietnam

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
If the Mig-35 will be there at all, it has been rejected by the Indians and unless Russia places large orders for them the air craft is dead.
Has it been rejected by the Indians? I would imagine it would have made news...

Either way it is likely to be ordered by the VVS (due to the LFI requirement). If it can win export orders from Vietnam that may give it a new lease on life. Although I can't see Vietnam ordering any until it becomes readily available.

I don't see anything wrong with replacing the large number of MiG-21 with a smaller number of Su-30MK2 or Su-35S.
 

Triumf

New Member
Has it been rejected by the Indians? I would imagine it would have made news...

Either way it is likely to be ordered by the VVS (due to the LFI requirement). If it can win export orders from Vietnam that may give it a new lease on life. Although I can't see Vietnam ordering any until it becomes readily available.

I don't see anything wrong with replacing the large number of MiG-21 with a smaller number of Su-30MK2 or Su-35S.
Vietnam needs light/medium multirole fighter for point defence, so Su-30/35 are not suitable. Personally, I prefer JAS-39C/D or F-16C/D Block 52 for MiG-21 replacement. But some political reasons...
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Vietnam needs light/medium multirole fighter for point defence, so Su-30/35 are not suitable. Personally, I prefer JAS-39C/D or F-16C/D Block 52 for MiG-21 replacement. But some political reasons...
There's also the issue of logistics, interoperability on a technological level, munitions, etc.
 

Triumf

New Member
By 28 Feb 2011, Vietnam people’s Air and Air defense force has:

1. Aircraft:
- 8 Su-30MK2 (and up to 40 Su-30MK2/MK3 on order, delivery between 2011-2015)
- 6 Su-27SK (and up to 6 Su-27SKM secondhand on order, may be included in 1 $ bil contract of 12 Su-30MK2 signed Feb 2010)
- 3 Su-27UBK
- 2 Su-27PU
- 85 MiG-21Bis
- 15 MiG-21UM
- 43 Su-22M4
- 9 Su-22UM3K
- 23 L-39Z
- 28 Yak-52
- 15 An-26
- 8 An-2TD
- 1 M-28 Skytruck
- 4 Mi-171 (SAR role)
- 24 Mi-17/Mi-172
- 29 Mi-8/Mi-8T
- 13 UH-1
- 7 Ka-28 ASW
- 1 Ka-32T
 
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T.C.P

Well-Known Member
Has it been rejected by the Indians? I would imagine it would have made news...

.
I brought this thing up in the IAF thread and also had discussions on it in other forums and most people think that the Fulcrum's absence at the Aero India means its out.

Back to topic, if the Mig-35 isn't canceled then it would be great for Vietnam. It could be their first aircraft with an AESA radar and thrust vectoring(if they choose to have thrust vectoring). I am no expert but I think that due to its similarity to the Mig-29K the Mig-35 can be great for anti shipping roles as well.
 

Triumf

New Member
What about Mil Mi-24, Triumph? Did you miss? And the Eurocopters ??
Mil Mi-24 already out of service. Eurocopters acttually belong to Ministry of National Defense, but are used for civil services (in case of war...).

P/S: My name is Triumf (S-400 Triumf SAM system) not Triumph.
 

VNcitizen

New Member
Mil Mi-24 already out of service. Eurocopters acttually belong to Ministry of National Defense, but are used for civil services (in case of war...).

P/S: My name is Triumf (S-400 Triumf SAM system) not Triumph.
So the VPAF replaces the role of Mi-24 by Mi-17x and Mi-8 in some cases?? I think to get some Mi-24s remains is not too bad, what are the reasons??
 

mk25

New Member
There is no need for helicopter; it does not serve Vietnam any purpose. If Vietnam has any hope of winning a modern conflict (especially against China) or at least build a deterrent force for her enemy to think twice about attacking her, a strong air force and anti-aircraft missile systems are the must-have. I don't see how that can be accomplished unless Vietnam's modern fighter fleet has at least a 1 to 3 ratio vs the Chinese's fleet. Also, Vietnam must have like 10 batteries of S-300PMU2 and 1000 48N6E2 missiles that will give her the ability to intercept Chinese cruise missiles:mad:
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
If Vietnam has any hope of winning a modern conflict (especially against China) or at least build a deterrent force for her enemy to think twice about attacking her, a strong air force and anti-aircraft missile systems are the must-have. I don't see how that can be accomplished unless Vietnam's modern fighter fleet has at least a 1 to 3 ratio vs the Chinese's fleet.
Vietnam's main concern with regards to China are clashes errupting over the disputed Sratleys, not a full scale high intensity war, which Vietnam cannot win.
 

mk25

New Member
Vietnam's main concern with regards to China are clashes errupting over the disputed Sratleys, not a full scale high intensity war, which Vietnam cannot win.
That's why I think in order for Vietnam to win a full scale high intensity war against China or at least try to prevent China from ever thinking about launching one against Vietnam, a strong deterrent airforce and anti-aircraft missile systems are the must-have. :duel Right now, China's modern aircraft fleet outnumbered Vietnam like 30 to 1; Vietnam also does not have many missiles to intercept cruise missiles either.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I don't agree about 100. That would be ridiculous. But a few more PMU2's probably wouldn't hurt. They have impressive ranges, and could conceivably project their engagement envelopes into enemy airspace. Vietnam could contest air superiority without having to actually fly aircraft into the space in question.

I'm surprised Vietnam hasn't gone for more as of right now. There are a ton of bargain bin priced refurbs available, with the PMU2 upgrade not being all that expensive.
 

mk25

New Member
10 batteries of PMU2 and 1000 of its missiles are nice but it's not enough to contest air superiority against someone like China who has hundred of modern fighters and load of standoff cruise missiles. The Chinese can launch stand off cruise missiles at the S-300 or even S-400 (if we get them in the future) and air bases of Vietnam so the anti-aircraft missile systems will have their hands full trying to defend themselves and the airbases. The Chinese can add to the equation by launching fighters to attack the S-300 missile sites that's why S-300 is not enough to contest air superiority of China. Vietnam also needs more fighters to intercept these Chinese fighters but at the moment the gap between two countries is so big like 30 to 1 in favor of China:(
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well the S-300s would have to be intergrated with point SAM-SPAAGs, and linked to a single command point. But at the end of the day a country the size of Vietnam can only do so much against a country the size of China.
 

VNcitizen

New Member
I don't agree about 100. That would be ridiculous. But a few more PMU2's probably wouldn't hurt. They have impressive ranges, and could conceivably project their engagement envelopes into enemy airspace. Vietnam could contest air superiority without having to actually fly aircraft into the space in question.

I'm surprised Vietnam hasn't gone for more as of right now. There are a ton of bargain bin priced refurbs available, with the PMU2 upgrade not being all that expensive.
:)) why do you know that we hasn't gone, we have planned and just wait, maybe not just only S300PMU ;), our current S300, who know they have upgraded or not :))

I don't appreciate the idea of having too much, just having enough weapons to deter the enemy. Every plan to mordenize the army has to base on economical, polictical and strategical conditions.

Vietnam doesn't need to have much much much weapons, we can't race with China, everyone knows that. And a full-scale war is a disaster for us, making another war is a crime. The best is that we can protect our interests without provoking a war and the determination of that is not base on the amount of weapons but the mind, the thinking and the best strategy.

Having the most modern weapons but with suitable amount, that's good at this time.
 

mk25

New Member
:)) why do you know that we hasn't gone, we have planned and just wait, maybe not just only S300PMU ;), our current S300, who know they have upgraded or not :))

I don't appreciate the idea of having too much, just having enough weapons to deter the enemy. Every plan to mordenize the army has to base on economical, polictical and strategical conditions.

Vietnam doesn't need to have much much much weapons, we can't race with China, everyone knows that. And a full-scale war is a disaster for us, making another war is a crime. The best is that we can protect our interests without provoking a war and the determination of that is not base on the amount of weapons but the mind, the thinking and the best strategy.

Having the most modern weapons but with suitable amount, that's good at this time.
How can Vietnam protect her interest against China when the military of Vietnam is so weak?
 

Chino

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
10 batteries of PMU2 and 1000 of its missiles are nice but it's not enough to contest air superiority against someone like China who has hundred of modern fighters and load of standoff cruise missiles. The Chinese can launch stand off cruise missiles at the S-300 or even S-400 (if we get them in the future) and air bases of Vietnam so the anti-aircraft missile systems will have their hands full trying to defend themselves and the airbases. The Chinese can add to the equation by launching fighters to attack the S-300 missile sites that's why S-300 is not enough to contest air superiority of China. Vietnam also needs more fighters to intercept these Chinese fighters but at the moment the gap between two countries is so big like 30 to 1 in favor of China:(
Erm... has it occurred to you that perhaps China doesn't want to attack Vietnam (or any other neighbouring countries)?

Who wants their own neighbourhood turned into a war zone while they are (both China and Vietnam) feverishly building their economies.

Before you say Spratlys, The Spratlys isn't "REAL" territory for anyone - Vietnam nor China. They are nothing but useless pieces of rocks that no one, not even the Chinese, are willing to go to war over. Despite appearances, I may add. It's all bluff.

...

If you look at the size of China versus the amount of decent warplanes they have, their airforce size is inadequate. They are barely able to defend themselves against a small but powerful country like Russia.
 

idiana

New Member
Before you say Spratlys, The Spratlys isn't "REAL" territory for anyone - Vietnam nor China. They are nothing but useless pieces of rocks that no one, not even the Chinese, are willing to go to war over. Despite appearances, I may add. It's all bluff.
Spratly belongs to Philippines, a nearest distance to the coastline of Philippines.

The largest island 'Itu Aiba' of Spratly is occupied by Taiwan, it is a serious violence.

Btw. Philippins never used force at Spratly like the other occupant.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
small but powerful country like Russia.
This brought a smile to my face...

But your larger argument is true. In the sense that China and Vietnam aren't going to be at war anytime soon. I would disagree with regards to power balance more broadly. I think Vietnam should continue to maintain the capability to hold of the Chinese.
 

idiana

New Member
This brought a smile to my face...

But your larger argument is true. In the sense that China and Vietnam aren't going to be at war anytime soon. I would disagree with regards to power balance more broadly. I think Vietnam should continue to maintain the capability to hold of the Chinese.
right, soon happen a clash at Spratlys, they clashed once in 1980s year.

China and Vietnam shared many bloody war ever since, because of border conflict. The last one was in 1979 and 1985 by their shared borderline.
 
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