Blas de Lezo
Member
Much much better, video on the top right corner of the pageGreat! The sliced video will have to do... Great picture image too...
Navantia bota el «Canberra», el primer megabuque para Australia
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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Navantia bota el «Canberra», el primer megabuque para Australia
Alonso Quijano
New Member
:dbanana
Australia purchase F-35B?
Australia purchase F-35B?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #4,986
After the 3 weeks i've just had...you have no idea how much worse it is and alots being held back from the brass....the fleet has flaws....
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #4,987
Wow, i go away for 3 weeks and the whole RAN falls apart and gives hope in such a small timeframe....
The things that annoyed me with the Decomm of Manoora(FINALLY!) and announcements of "GAP" measures is the politicising of it. The idea that a bay would be a GAP measure is BS! JP2048C seeks a replacement for the 3 Amphib, with the idea being Kanimbla and Tobruk(at the time of ordering) would be replaced by LHD 1(canberra) then manoora by 2(adelaide). After that a Heavy lift ship based on a bay class would be acquired, and with UK SDSR announcment many of us straight away picked up that buying a bay would save a step that was exactly what we wanted. Yet Def Min declares this as a "new" idea to plug the gap, even though we were eventually going to get it...or were we? was this a budget scape goat that once the LHDs were here, we could cut it from planning and look proactive on Defence budgetting.
The idea of sharing with the kiwis is insulting and demeaning to RAN AND RNZN in that we need the kiwis to do our ampbhib ops, and RNZN has nothing better to do with HMNZS Cantuberry. It seemed to come out of left field, as if someone in the hallway before the press conference mentioned it as a joke...and its felt that way within the RAN. If and when the kiwis come over here im sure they will be just as baffled by the decision.
As with the state of the RAN, we can get more then 2 surface combatants to sea, its lasting that may be an issue. Ex Triton storm I (see FCP-East for old timers) kicked off and was completed with 4(thats FOUR!) ships at sea, 2 FFG 2 FFH. In the west we expect 3 more at sea to join our fun and games. However, the ships do have major issues that have not been addressed, and if somethings not done soon, then more then 2 will be at "extended readiness"...a cop out for lack of money/time for docking 12mths before going into dock. I find it amazing they say theres not enough crew availaible but ive just spent 3 weeks with 110% capacity crew, with some sleeping on Cots where available. And we still get more emails for more available crew, especially with manoora alongside and a whole crew to spread across working ships. to jump and down saying theres no people available comes down to poor management of personnel.
As for the Launch of the LHD...cheers for the Video, gives hope to a capable Amphib fleet in the future, its just the present we need to worry about
The things that annoyed me with the Decomm of Manoora(FINALLY!) and announcements of "GAP" measures is the politicising of it. The idea that a bay would be a GAP measure is BS! JP2048C seeks a replacement for the 3 Amphib, with the idea being Kanimbla and Tobruk(at the time of ordering) would be replaced by LHD 1(canberra) then manoora by 2(adelaide). After that a Heavy lift ship based on a bay class would be acquired, and with UK SDSR announcment many of us straight away picked up that buying a bay would save a step that was exactly what we wanted. Yet Def Min declares this as a "new" idea to plug the gap, even though we were eventually going to get it...or were we? was this a budget scape goat that once the LHDs were here, we could cut it from planning and look proactive on Defence budgetting.
The idea of sharing with the kiwis is insulting and demeaning to RAN AND RNZN in that we need the kiwis to do our ampbhib ops, and RNZN has nothing better to do with HMNZS Cantuberry. It seemed to come out of left field, as if someone in the hallway before the press conference mentioned it as a joke...and its felt that way within the RAN. If and when the kiwis come over here im sure they will be just as baffled by the decision.
As with the state of the RAN, we can get more then 2 surface combatants to sea, its lasting that may be an issue. Ex Triton storm I (see FCP-East for old timers) kicked off and was completed with 4(thats FOUR!) ships at sea, 2 FFG 2 FFH. In the west we expect 3 more at sea to join our fun and games. However, the ships do have major issues that have not been addressed, and if somethings not done soon, then more then 2 will be at "extended readiness"...a cop out for lack of money/time for docking 12mths before going into dock. I find it amazing they say theres not enough crew availaible but ive just spent 3 weeks with 110% capacity crew, with some sleeping on Cots where available. And we still get more emails for more available crew, especially with manoora alongside and a whole crew to spread across working ships. to jump and down saying theres no people available comes down to poor management of personnel.
As for the Launch of the LHD...cheers for the Video, gives hope to a capable Amphib fleet in the future, its just the present we need to worry about
No, its not on the horizon. Given the UK has pulled out of the B's its even more unlikely. Hopefully we will get to work with the USMC and their F-35B's. There may be some UAV's that can be launched from the LHD.
We seem to be heading for block obsolences again.
Atleast we have 2 LHD's underconstruction and theres atleast 1 real option for the 3rd sealift, and any single one of them would be better than the entire amphib fleet right now.
they are, but i understand there has been some problems marinising them
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #4,990
They are but the issue arises with folding and spreading the rotors. Aussie tigers were not purchased when the LHD became part of Strategic planning, as such heavy use at sea was never mentioned.
If i recall it takes quite some time to spread, same with blackhawks. Seahawks, MRH90 are designed for heavy sea use so this is not a problem. If someone has timings id love to hear them.
The lack of ability to fold would lead to less helos taken onboard, which for any commander of Amphib is not ideal as more helos more options and utlility.
Was the Tiger not ordered before the decision to buy the Canberra's? So marinisation didn't form part of the tender evaluation process (or folding rotors specified for non-marinised airframes, same as UK Apache)?
I wouldn't like to move rotary assets about below decks with rotors open in inclement weather. How expensive would it be to change the rotar hub and incorporate folding rotors? Have the French specified marinised Tigers for use off their Mistral's?
i was under the impression WAH-64s were marinised....
when you think about it, really what are we getting from the Tigers over other A/C? at ~40m a pop you would think everything came as standard
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
While this discussion likely should be in the Army thread if it continues on, all the same...
The Tiger, at least at the time the programme was tendered, was projected to have a lower operating cost than AH-64 Apaches IIRC. Which was one of the reasons why the Tiger won out vs. AH-1 Cobras and AH-64 Apaches. Unfortunately, it seems that the information presented by Eurocopter seems to have been somewhat less than accurate.
IMO though what is even worse, is that since the Tiger was still in development, the Aussie Tigers have not yet reached IOC, since they are apparently still waiting for flight certification in France. Worse still, is that the ADF is so far commited to them, that Oz is not apparently in a position to cancel the programme and place an order for Apaches or Cobras.
With all of that going on, I am a bit less concerned about having to fold/unfold the rotors. Get the helis operating first, then worry about modding the bits to make ops from the LHD's easier later.
If GF, AD or Abe could take a look at the above and confirm if the rumours and recollections I have are accurate more or less, I would appreciate it.
-Cheers
She will be piggybacked to Melbourne on the MV Blue Marlin
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Blue_Marlin"]MV Blue Marlin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:MV_Blue_Marlin_carrying_USS_Cole.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/MV_Blue_Marlin_carrying_USS_Cole.jpg/250px-MV_Blue_Marlin_carrying_USS_Cole.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/3/32/MV_Blue_Marlin_carrying_USS_Cole.jpg/250px-MV_Blue_Marlin_carrying_USS_Cole.jpg[/ame]
JoeMcFriday
New Member
On the Blue Marlin's website, they make a note that only the starboard casing is fixed.
Perhaps they can conveniently accommodate 'Canberra' fore and aft but a look at what their ships have carried 'askance' makes the LHD look a very simple job by comparison.
Fleet :: Dockwise :: Exceptional Transport Management
Cheers,
Mac
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
That's pretty spot on as I recall. Apparently "accidentally" misleading Defence twice (Tiger and MRH-90) on support costs and developmental risk is not enough to get you disqualified from tendering for yet another platform with massive developmental risk...
I suppose looking on the bright side the Tiger having a high carbon fiber reinforced polymer content reduces wear and tear caused by salt
The fitting of folding rotors IMO should be standard across all light/medium platforms, not just because of the LHD factor, but also for moving airframes in the back of a C17/An124 to and from deployments in support of troops assigned to a country's QRF. You donlt want to be delayed on the ground fitting and certifying blades when your resIdent QRF battalion needs CAS pronto in a NEO or similar scenario.
I am not sure if this is new or not but it's one of the better LHD videos I have seen
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SccVR2XhKyU&feature=related"]YouTube - LHD "Canberra Class", built by NAVANTIA & BAE SYSTEMS for Australian Navy.[/nomedia]
As to how the LHD's will transfer to Melbourne, I believe they will get skull dragged here by a Ocean Tug. People continually quote that the MV Blue Marlin will "Piggy Back" the LHD's but I cannot see how they will ever fit onto her back. A 231m long LHD will simply not fit on top of a 217m (TOTAL LENGTH) Semisubmersible with out putting the LHD on a catastrophic angle (In the photo's of the USS Cole on the back of MV BM she looks like she is on one hell of an angle and a Arleigh Burke is only 2/3 thirds of the length of an LHD at 155m).
I also don't understand why people seem to think she needs to be piggybacked even if a suitable vessel exists. A LHD Hull is a water tight hydro dynamically streamed vessel that unlike a holed vessel like the USS Cole or a un hydro dynamically streamed oil rig, She can be easily towed by large Ocean going Tugs..... My two cents out
My first chance to see the launch vid's today Simultaneously gave me a both a lump in my throat and a lump in my pants:
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SccVR2XhKyU&feature=related"]YouTube - LHD "Canberra Class", built by NAVANTIA & BAE SYSTEMS for Australian Navy.[/nomedia]
As to how the LHD's will transfer to Melbourne, I believe they will get skull dragged here by a Ocean Tug. People continually quote that the MV Blue Marlin will "Piggy Back" the LHD's but I cannot see how they will ever fit onto her back. A 231m long LHD will simply not fit on top of a 217m (TOTAL LENGTH) Semisubmersible with out putting the LHD on a catastrophic angle (In the photo's of the USS Cole on the back of MV BM she looks like she is on one hell of an angle and a Arleigh Burke is only 2/3 thirds of the length of an LHD at 155m).
I also don't understand why people seem to think she needs to be piggybacked even if a suitable vessel exists. A LHD Hull is a water tight hydro dynamically streamed vessel that unlike a holed vessel like the USS Cole or a un hydro dynamically streamed oil rig, She can be easily towed by large Ocean going Tugs..... My two cents out
My first chance to see the launch vid's today Simultaneously gave me a both a lump in my throat and a lump in my pants
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