Cambodia & Thailand Hostilities...

[ID-Forever]

It is very common for people who live along the border to speak two languages. Anyway, people from the Northeastern province of Thailand speak Thai as common language. Actually , There are only some peoples from Surin , Buriram and Srisaket province speaking dialect of Kamer at home. No matter language they speak, they always have big smile on their face when talking to the strangers. Nice people

 

[rip]

It is very common for people who live along the border to speak two languages. Anyway, people from the Northeastern province of Thailand speak Thai as common language. Actually , There are only some peoples from Surin , Buriram and Srisaket province speaking dialect of Kamer at home. No matter language they speak, they always have big smile on their face when talking to the strangers. Nice people

I agree they are a great people and they are patriotic and loyal to their country, I only wanted to show that the situation was far more complicated in its internal dynamic than the general discussion seemed to make it. In fact there is probably much more than I know going on behind the seens and driving events. In this part of the world there always is.

 

[ID-Forever]

You are right ....... something confidential. Thailand and Cambodia have agreed a ceasefire but the conflict between two countries still there........ All Quiet on The Eastern Front.

 

[STURM]

There was an AFP photo showing Cambodian troops with a new Kelvar helmet and a 'woodland' type uniform. And of course also the popular Chi-Com style Ak-47 mag chest rig.

 

[T.C.P]

No offence but you have twisted a fact to grind your own axe.
For the alleged "civilian killings", you should explain how these "civilians" die before making a claim that makes it sound like BSF goes on a rampage to kill Bangladeshi civilians. BSF are Indian border guards and many Bangladeshi civilians make regular attempts to cross over into India through the thinly guarded border and thats how they get killed. That being said many Bangladeshis still manage get into India illegally which is unfortunate.
(Bangladeshis comprise the largest illegal immigrant group in Indian states bordering Bangladesh,especially Assam).

This is the standard proceedure no matter which country it is. If you try to run across a border you will get shot down. This doesn't mean BSF has something against bangladeshi civilians, they would stop anyone from crossing the border no matter what nationality, because thats what their job is.

I meant no disrespect to India, but the BSF crimes are now an internationally condemned thing. You say that the BSF have nothing against Bangladeshi citizens then can you explain the 20 deaths 12 confirmed killings by the BSf this year alone. Thousands of Myanmar refugees and immigrants illegally cross into the country the BGB does not make a target practise out of them. The US border guards dont shoot every Mexican alien that they can find. I am not saying that no other border guards agency kills illiegal immigrants but none do it so frequently and continuously like the BSF.
Most of the victims are traders (mainly cattle) who go to India to do business and not to stay. Most of the Bangladeshi citizens crossing iilegally into India go to visit family members, hundreds of thousands of families were seperated during the partition. I am not saying that all the Bangali aliens are innocent, but the BSF's stance that all the people they kill are notorious criminals and that they are doing Bangladesh a favour really irks me.

 

[Chino]

There was an AFP photo showing Cambodian troops with a new Kelvar helmet and a 'woodland' type uniform. And of course also the popular Chi-Com style Ak-47 mag chest rig.

Everyone seems to favor wearing US-style Kevlar helmets and woodland-ish camo.

Malaysia, Thailand, PRC, Taiwan, and now you say Cambodia. Visual ID of enemy combatants gonna get very difficult. Not too long ago, Singapore was dressed like that, too.

 

[DavidDCM]

Cambodia uses a huge variety of camouflage uniforms, ranging from olive drab to various well-known regular camo patterns like Woodland and DPM to modern digital ones. Cambodian special forces even use the Indonesian Kopassus uniform. Perhaps most problematic is that some Cambodian soldiers actually wear the new Thai Army digital pattern, same one as their potential opponents.
Even within a single unit I often spotted several different non-matching patterns.

Cambodia received a lot of military help from China in recent years, and also to a certain degree from the US.

 

[rip]

I meant no disrespect to India, but the BSF crimes are now an internationally condemned thing. You say that the BSF have nothing against Bangladeshi citizens then can you explain the 20 deaths 12 confirmed killings by the BSf this year alone. Thousands of Myanmar refugees and immigrants illegally cross into the country the BGB does not make a target practise out of them. The US border guards dont shoot every Mexican alien that they can find. I am not saying that no other border guards agency kills illiegal immigrants but none do it so frequently and continuously like the BSF.
Most of the victims are traders (mainly cattle) who go to India to do business and not to stay. Most of the Bangladeshi citizens crossing iilegally into India go to visit family members, hundreds of thousands of families were seperated during the partition. I am not saying that all the Bangali aliens are innocent, but the BSF's stance that all the people they kill are notorious criminals and that they are doing Bangladesh a favour really irks me.

A nation that doesn’t defend its borders will in time stop being a nation. I think we can all agree that the loss of so much live is a terrible thing when people do not respect borders. The degree of response a nation will use to defend the integrity of its borders is directly connected to its lack of confidence in maintaining control of its borders and preserving the integrity of the state and the inverse to its certainty of its general strength and health.

India may very well be an up and comer in the world but on average it is still very poor and underdeveloped. It also has several border conflicts all around it and several serious internal violent political movements of which it must sturggle. I think that their action can be best explained by these challenges and their lake of resources to deal with them in a more systematic and refined ways.

 

[STURM]

Everyone seems to favor wearing US-style Kevlar helmets and woodland-ish camo.

Malaysia, Thailand, PRC, Taiwan, and now you say Cambodia. Visual ID of enemy combatants gonna get very difficult. Not too long ago, Singapore was dressed like that, too.

Thai troops are now mainly using a new digitial design, introduced about 3 years ago. Prior to the new digital pattern, Singapore's camo was a woodland variation of the U.S. ERDL design. Vietnam's troops, despite the introduction of a new kelvar type helmet, still largely use the Vietnam war era pith helmets, which provide much, much less protection but are more comfortable than kelvar helmets .

Malaysia's current camo pattern [introduced about 13 years ago] is described by collectors as the 'zebra' pattern. The Malaysian 'zebra pattern has also been applied to armoured/soft skinned vehicles and artillery, using IR resistant paint. Prior to this a 'brushstroke' pattern was used by Malaysia for many years, based on and sharing many similiarities with the WW2 Denison pattern, Rhodesian 'brushstroke' and the Belgian 'moons and ball's. The RMN's Paskal uses a locally made copy of the U.S. 'woodland' and the MMEA uses the U.S. ACU. In terms of numbers of different camo patterns used, the Philippines and Indonesia top the list in ASEAN.

 

[DavidDCM]

You sure, I think Cambodia surpasses both Indonesia and the Philippines easily. I know at least 11 different Cambodian camo patterns from the limited picture database available, but only 7 or 8 different ones in the Philippine and Indonesian forces, respectively.

---

On a different note, we should put the India-Bangladesh discussion in a separate thread.

 

[STURM]

You sure, I think Cambodia surpasses both Indonesia and the Philippines easily. I know at least 11 different Cambodian camo patterns from the limited picture database available, but only 7 or 8 different ones in the Philippine and Indonesian forces, respectively.

If I had to guess I would say that some Cambodian units are un-officially issued with patterns sourced from Thailand, but that until recently most units were issued with the commonly seen olive drab ones. The Cambodians also have a DPM variant. The photo from AFP which I mentioned shows a new, previously unseen 'woodland' type camo which I'm certain is from China. China has also supplied East Timor with a 'lizard' pattern.

Didn't know you were interested in camo. If you're interested in an online camo society, with members from around the world, pls PM me and I'll provide the details.

 

[DavidDCM]

Oh, I'm not really a camo buff, it's just one part of the whole thing and I try to stay up to date. Also it often helps to identify a unit. But thanks for the offer

 

[Chino]

China, too, has a wide variety of camo.

However, this is understandable as there are so many different geographical regions in such a big land mass. What I find most interesting is that their SF in past pictures were seen wearing a camo very similar to the AFP standard issue camo.

And I believe China's massive textile industry produces much camo cloth for export or made to order.

 

[STURM]

China, too, has a wide variety of camo.

However, this is understandable as there are so many different geographical regions in such a big land mass. What I find most interesting is that their SF in past pictures were seen wearing a camo very similar to the AFP standard issue camo.

And I believe China's massive textile industry produces much camo cloth for export or made to order.

Yes Chinese companies export a lot of camo for military users. They also export almost perfect copies of hard to source camo from several countries [some of these are often passed off as original issue unforms by dealers to collectors]. There are also Chinese made copies of camo that are common and easier to source such as the U.S. 'chocolate chip' 1st Gulf War desert pattern, the U.S. 3 colour desert pattern and the U.S. ACU. For it's own troops, China also has a copy of the German 'flecktarn', the colours are a bit brighter though. It has also produced a copy or a version of the French 'lizard' camo which was exported to East Timor.

In the past it was Russia that had a large number of different camo patterns, but the Russian army is now standardising it's camo, though in Georgia it was still common for Russian troops from the same unit to be wearing different types of camo. I'm not sure if it's still the case but up to a few years ago, even security guards at some Russian banks wore camo.

 

[ManilaBoy]

Renewed fighting erupted today along the contested border killing 3 Thai soldiers and 3 Cambodian soldiers... :coffee

Five dead in Thai-Cambodia border clash - Channel NewsAsia

 

[rip]

FYI, I am currently reading a very good book on Cambodia that has given me more insight into the history that is driving today’s circumstances between Thailand and Cambodia. The book is called Cambodia’s Curse: (the modern history of a troubled land), by the Pulitzer Prize winner Joel Brinkley just published. I recommend it. I have learned a lot and I have lived in both Cambodia and Thailand.

 

[ManilaBoy]

Continued fighting on saturday resulted in 4 more military casualties, 3 from Cambodia and 1 from Thailand...The 2 day toll stands at 10 soldiers killed from both nations.

 

[Chino]

FYI, I am currently reading a very good book on Cambodia that has given me more insight into the history that is driving today’s circumstances between Thailand and Cambodia. The book is called Cambodia’s Curse: (the modern history of a troubled land), by the Pulitzer Prize winner Joel Brinkley just published. I recommend it. I have learned a lot and I have lived in both Cambodia and Thailand.

Please share some insights.

I was on a boat off Phuket for 7 days in year 2000. The Thai-Muslim rasta-looking boatman wore a Thai army belt. When asked, he said he served National Service as a Thai SEAL. He talked about killing Cambodians during his service, probably early-90s.

They have a history of bad blood, I think.

 

[rip]

Please share some insights.

I was on a boat off Phuket for 7 days in year 2000. The Thai-Muslim rasta-looking boatman wore a Thai army belt. When asked, he said he served National Service as a Thai SEAL. He talked about killing Cambodians during his service, probably early-90s.

They have a history of bad blood, I think.

I wish I could give you some great insight as to the hostility but I cannot.

But what I can tell you are that the primary concerns of the leaderships is money, on both sides. Most of the trade between Cambodia and Thailand over the last 20 years has been government sanctioned crime. Where the Cambodian government operatives, (whatever fraction or parity) who was in charge of a peculiar area of the country raped the land of it valuable hardwoods, gems, and historical treasures and with the help of the almost as corrupt, Thai Generals sold them on the black market. Screwing the Cambodian people at every chance they get.

It is very well documented. Remember that they act like criminals because they are criminals and this is not a racist remark. The people themselfs that suffer under these selfish greedy murdering thugs are good people that deserve so much better. In Cambodia they conduct their political discussions by hand-grenade. Fact.

 

[STURM]

In a space of 25 years Thailand has had border clashes with all of it's neighbours excluding Malaysia, then again it has no territorial disputes with Malaysia. It's clashes with Laos and Myanmmar were more intense and serious that they are presently with Camodia, involving strike missions flown by F-5E's, heavy armour and artillery. A main part of the problem I think at present is that all lot of the firefights are a result of units in the field making certain moves that are misintrepeted by the either side as provocative or aimed at seizing a local advantage in some areas rather than being part of some master plan at a higher level.

Rip, does the book mentioned anything about the KPNLF and other factions receiving training in Thailand during the civil war and Vietnamese presence in Kampuchea/Cambodia in the 1980's?