Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[Volkodav]

FMD, I hope not. its in line for the woftam prize IMO

The Eagle is a nice piece of kit and I believe they were looking at the former Mitsubishi factory at Tonsley SA as a suitable assembly site, although an article on the Ocolot did mention Edinburgh Park automotive hub as the prefered site for a number of the contenders.

Add to this the fact that this would create jobs in a number of marginal electorates in the south of Adelaide you can't help but wonder if the Eagle will get up.

 

[gf0012-aust]

The Eagle is a nice piece of kit and I believe they were looking at the former Mitsubishi factory at Tonsley SA as a suitable assembly site, although an article on the Ocolot did mention Edinburgh Park automotive hub as the prefered site for a number of the contenders.

I've been lucky enough to go for a spin in an Eagle, they're a nice piece of kit.

Add to this the fact that this would create jobs in a number of marginal electorates in the south of Adelaide you can't help but wonder if the Eagle will get up.

local build and content will be a heavy carrot for any govt assessment - esp this Govt

 

[Abraham Gubler]

If anyone deserves to win the PMV-L it is GDLS and the Eagle. They've been backing the PMV-L concept for five years when no one else but the operators in the field really cared. They brought an early model Eagle to Aust back in 05-06 (can't remember exactly when) and drove it around the country to demonstrate to Army leadership it was a good idea. At this time LAND 121 only wanted some add on armour for G-Wagens for use in theatre.

 

[Waylander]

Reports from A-stan indicate that the Eagle is well liked by the Bundeswehr operaters in country.
Especially compared to all the uparmored G-Wagon versions we have in country.

Seems like it is a fine piece of kit.

 

[Volkodav]

If anyone deserves to win the PMV-L it is GDLS and the Eagle. They've been backing the PMV-L concept for five years when no one else but the operators in the field really cared. They brought an early model Eagle to Aust back in 05-06 (can't remember exactly when) and drove it around the country to demonstrate to Army leadership it was a good idea. At this time LAND 121 only wanted some add on armour for G-Wagens for use in theatre.

You wouldn't have any info on the cancelled Mulgara project from the mid 90's? An armoured Humvee was definately in the mix as was an armoured Rodeo by HSV believe it or not, but I can't remember if the original Eagle was a contender or not.

My old unit was meant to be involved in service trials of what ever was selected with a new Sqn scheduled to be formed to operate it so the projects cancellation was a major disappointment.

From memory mine protection was an important part of the requirement but I am not sure about ballistic protection in general, but as a contempary of Bushmaster I can't help but wonder how close the end result would have been to LAND 121 Phase 4.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

From memory mine protection was an important part of the requirement but I am not sure about ballistic protection in general, but as a contempary of Bushmaster I can't help but wonder how close the end result would have been to LAND 121 Phase 4.

Mulgara LSRV only had a requirement for kit armour - 200 kgs of it - that would be fitted when needed (SEK).

The specification and bidders for Mulgara have been preserved online at:

4WD Project Mulgara

I have a document on my PC (currently out of action thanks to inundation) on the proposed Mulgara recce sqn. From memory the recce sqn was to have five troops each of nine LSRVs.

 

[Volkodav]

Mulgara LSRV only had a requirement for kit armour - 200 kgs of it - that would be fitted when needed (SEK).

The specification and bidders for Mulgara have been preserved online at:

4WD Project Mulgara

I have a document on my PC (currently out of action thanks to inundation) on the proposed Mulgara recce sqn. From memory the recce sqn was to have five troops each of nine LSRVs.

Thanks for that, I see my recollections were only partly correct.

Nothing like LAND 121 Phase 4 but in hindsite, considering much of the Light Horse was reroled to Light CAV using Landrovers, the cancellation of Mulgara was perhaps unfortunate.

 

[Kirkzzy]

If the MRH-90s are truly being reviewed which could see us holding onto the Black Hawks a little longer.. when are the Black Hawks planned retirement in the US? They are about 35 years old or so now so getting on there, yet they are still very capable and renowned worldwide.

 

[justsomeaussie]

The MRAP All Terrain Vehicle (M-ATV) has significant problems with roll over. This combined with hydraulic doors has resulted in a few downing’s. Seating for only 4 people in full rig so isn’t a comparable vehicle to the BM.

Even the Hawkei's doors are very heavy and will cause a major problem if you have to get out quickly in a roll over.

The BM is still a great vehicle and regardless of its cost has been througly effective in ops. Just ask the brits after they were rolling around in the Land Rover Wolfs known as a 'mobile coffin'

Pity the Jackal/Nary had such a poor Australian implementation as it's been quite effective overseas as well.

 

[gf0012-aust]

The MRAP All Terrain Vehicle (M-ATV) has significant problems with roll over. This combined with hydraulic doors has resulted in a few downing’s. Seating for only 4 people in full rig so isn’t a comparable vehicle to the BM.

Even the Hawkei's doors are very heavy and will cause a major problem if you have to get out quickly in a roll over.

Abe might add to this, but my understanding is that the inclusion of side doors on the australian developed vehicles is to meet US MRAP build requirements.

The Australian design specs for similar capability does not include side doors for a reason. (blast issues, integrity issues, operational and doctrine differences in how dismounts work etc...)

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Abe might add to this, but my understanding is that the inclusion of side doors on the australian developed vehicles is to meet US MRAP build requirements.

The delay in fitting the side door is one of the reasons why the Bushmaster didn’t win any early MRAP orders. The side door was developed before MRAP but for the ‘Ute’ version (so many different names) which needs a side door for access (no rear door).

The Australian design specs for similar capability does not include side doors for a reason. (blast issues, integrity issues, operational and doctrine differences in how dismounts work etc...)

But then in the pre production testing found out they needed some sort of side access for the driver to pass back and forth IDs and written orders. So a small access hatch was built in under the right side window.

 

[winnyfield]

If the MRH-90s are truly being reviewed which could see us holding onto the Black Hawks a little longer.. when are the Black Hawks planned retirement in the US? They are about 35 years old or so now so getting on there, yet they are still very capable and renowned worldwide.

The US inked a deal a few years back to buy at least a thousand new build UH-60Ms - glass cockpit, better engines etc.

Sweden has a FMS request for 15 UH-60M at $546m - their NH90 delays
(Sweden to Buy UH-60M Blackhawk Helicopters for Afghanistan | News at DefenseTalk)

 

[justsomeaussie]

I was under the impression that Thales had moved away from the name "Copperhead" and was sticking with "Bushmaster Dual Cab Utility Vehicle". So they seem to be using the name Bushmaster as the core platform then building from there. The dual and single cab varients do seem to whole a lot of uses.

We've even been hearing reports of concepts of them rolling them mortars on the back.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I was under the impression that Thales had moved away from the name "Copperhead" and was sticking with "Bushmaster Dual Cab Utility Vehicle". So they seem to be using the name Bushmaster as the core platform then building from there. The dual and single cab varients do seem to whole a lot of uses.

Yeah the Copperhead name has gone tha way of the original name: Armoured Combat Support Vehicle (ACSV). Now just called UV or Dual Cab UV. The UV versions are quite different to the original Bushmaster PMV-M in other areas apart from the flat bed.

We've even been hearing reports of concepts of them rolling them mortars on the back.

Been done before...

 

[Gracchus]

Query re: LAND 400 and possible future army structure:

I understand that the breakdown of wheeled vs. tracked vehicles and the location of these vehicles within particular units is still TBD. However, is it correct to assume that each future infantry battalion will have its own complement of ~30 tonne PMVs, in addition to the lift provided by the ~40 tonne LAND 400 IFV (potentially located in a separate lift squadron within a projected armoured cavalry regiment)?

If the battalion has access to "pools" of each vehicle type (IFV for close combat, PMV for organic/operational mobilty), will each battalion be likely to have (or require) a normal establishment of PMVs sufficient to lift all three infantry combat teams, considering that they will be spending much of the time operating from the heavier IFV?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

[Kirkzzy]

I am also interested in hearing an answer for the above post, would be a great insight into future force structure.

Another thing I really want to know is, when are the Tigers scheduled to be deployed to Afghanistan?

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I am also interested in hearing an answer for the above post, would be a great insight into future force structure

All discussed in the back history of this thread (last few months) and the marine corps thread in the navy forum.

PS Admin post to remove instant notification spam setting.

 

[Dropkick]

ADF Eurocopter Tiger

**Not Dropkicks words, But Agree**

While this discussion likely should be in the Army thread if it continues on, all the same...

The Tiger, at least at the time the programme was tendered, was projected to have a lower operating cost than AH-64 Apaches IIRC. Which was one of the reasons why the Tiger won out vs. AH-1 Cobras and AH-64 Apaches. Unfortunately, it seems that the information presented by Eurocopter seems to have been somewhat less than accurate.

IMO though what is even worse, is that since the Tiger was still in development, the Aussie Tigers have not yet reached IOC, since they are apparently still waiting for flight certification in France. Worse still, is that the ADF is so far commited to them, that Oz is not apparently in a position to cancel the programme and place an order for Apaches or Cobras.

With all of that going on, I am a bit less concerned about having to fold/unfold the rotors. Get the helis operating first, then worry about modding the bits to make ops from the LHD's easier later.

If GF, AD or Abe could take a look at the above and confirm if the rumours and recollections I have are accurate more or less, I would appreciate it.

-Cheers

 

[t68]

Interesting video of a soldiers view through their own camera of a commando raid in today’s daily Telegraph (Sydney)
I believe more of these should be made available to the general public, to show the valuable but dangerous missions or diggers are accomplishing in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan war exclusive - a soldier's view of hell | The Daily Telegraph

 

[rossfrb_1]

Cirit 70mm missile for ADF?

There's a rumour going round the boards that the ADF are looking at the Turkish Cirit 70mm laser guided rocket. If true, I would imagine for the Tiger ARH.

It's even made it is far as wikipedia
([ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roketsan_Cirit"]Roketsan Cirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Cirit_AH-1W.JPG" class="image"><img alt="Cirit AH-1W.JPG" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/Cirit_AH-1W.JPG/320px-Cirit_AH-1W.JPG"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/6/69/Cirit_AH-1W.JPG/320px-Cirit_AH-1W.JPG[/ame])
Can anybody add any more legs to the story?

cheers

rb