Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
It’s been a long time since the RAAF had stove piped pilots between strike-recce and tactical fighter. All RAAF fast jet pilots are fully trained in air to air combat as part of the lead in fighter program on the Hawk. Also F-111 pilots get a lot of air to air experience against the Hornet. They may not have been dog fighting them but they certainly weren’t illiterate in ATA. Anyway the aircrews for the Super Hornets are coming from a mix of F-111 and Hornet backgrounds and all are fully trained in air to air with the Super Hornet as part of their conversion to the new aircraft. This issue is a non event.
i didnt realise we had any active aces, could you name one?
Sorry mate but there is no way that the ex pig guys are anywhere near as Adept at A2A as the hornet guys. Will they get there in time. Yes, of course they will. There is a reason why hornet guys have been sent up to 1 & 6 though ( I reckon you would find that if the new platform had a very limited A2A capability they wouldn't be cross pollinating.)
As to what they have done previously - I reckon that you will find even the ex-pig guys will admit their A2A pig experience is not relevant with what an actual fighter can do. Pig - no BVR, no radar, limited WVR, crap turning.....
Yeah I was more railing against the apparent suggestion that the Super Hornets will not have any A2A capability because of the aircrew’s background in the F-111. Of course a pilot with six years experience on the F-111 after conversion to Super Hornet and qualification as an operational pilot will not be the A2A equivalent of someone with six years flying Hornets. But they will have had to meet a basic A2A standard to qualify as a war deployable Super Hornet pilot.
I wouldn't have thought it would be a case of merely the pilots of 1 & 6 sqns transferring all their pilots to the shornet one for one.
The transition and training program has been in place for a year or two now, while the pig capability had to be maintained, pilots would have cycled in and out due to normal turnover, training/career cycles and the best pilots wanting to get at the best machines.
I would have thought that 1 & 6 sqns as they now stand, taking on the shornet, would comprise 50% or less of former pig pilots.
The transition and training program has been in place for a year or two now, while the pig capability had to be maintained, pilots would have cycled in and out due to normal turnover, training/career cycles and the best pilots wanting to get at the best machines.
I would have thought that 1 & 6 sqns as they now stand, taking on the shornet, would comprise 50% or less of former pig pilots.
It would be a good idea to do a search on the posts. we have been over and over and over this when countering some of the commentary provided by APA.
in short simple terms, they were unable to enter complex battlespace with confidence.
for the last 8 years they have had to be profiled and co-tasked with Hornets to ride shotgun
this is besides a number of other logistics issues and the merit of sustaining them
Have you managed to get hold of the RAAF Newspaper for December?
there's a big farewell article inside...
Would even stoop to steal someone else's limelight. Like in the Franklin River episode where the first recce photos were supplied via Miro yet the F-111 ended up in the nation wide front page photos.
t68
Well-Known Member
With F111 retiring and the job being taken over by the Super Hornets, which do not have the range of the F111 and Super Hornets is being superseded by F35A when enough platforms come on line. Is there still a requirement if there was a suitable aircraft available, would the RAAF need a medium strike bomber in its fleet, for instance the planned but cancelled project of the FB22 based on the F22 Raptor. Although B1 Lancer is classed as a heavy bomber and not entirely suited to Australia’s needs but has more than enough range war load we would ever dream of needing. It was designed as a low level penetrator.
At the moment Australia’s capability is with Super Hornet and AGM-158 JASSM and the soon range extending(to give it the range of F111) with A330 MRTT, in the 2025ish Collins replacement and might have a long range cruise missile capability, is this more than Australia would ever need in long range strike capability.
At the end of the day is the need still there if there were more suitable aircraft to buy?
At the moment Australia’s capability is with Super Hornet and AGM-158 JASSM and the soon range extending(to give it the range of F111) with A330 MRTT, in the 2025ish Collins replacement and might have a long range cruise missile capability, is this more than Australia would ever need in long range strike capability.
At the end of the day is the need still there if there were more suitable aircraft to buy?
The long range of the F-111 in terms of strategic employment has been highly overrated in recent years. 1,200 NM radius is great for drawing circles on maps but realistically was never going to be needed to reach some far off target. With a single tanking at 50% fuel the Hornet and Super Hornet with JASSM can strike a target at a 800 NM radius.
Considering the RAAF could only put 12 F-111s into a sortie at a single time and each could only carry two standoff weapons the Hornet/JASSM force can put four times the ordnance at 2/3s the range. So we can actually deliver a lot more ordnance with the new force. When the F-35 comes online the lethality will be improved and so to the range. With JASSM-ER the F-35 will be able to strike targets at 1,400-1,500 NM range with a single tanking at 50% fuel.
This was never a project to be cancelled. USAF considered a type of aircraft called the rapid theatre strike with a 1,500 NM radius at Mach 1.5 and then rejected it in favour of a stealthier, longer range bomber type. To support their concept analysis the contractors provided concept designs. Lockheed looked at turning the F-22 into a bomber and Northrop scaled up their F-23 among other concepts. But they were just paper studies.
Why wouldn’t it be suitable? If we could afford it and it was available it or something like it would be a massive boost to RAAF combat power. In the late 1950s the RAAF was super keen on replacing the 48 Canberras with ~25 Vulcans.
High endurance, low observable ISR and strike: Need? You betcha. Suitable aircraft? Keep watching the skies…
LOL. Strike? What with?
Its in the planning docs
So they haven't taken over the F-111's strike role until the new missile is acquired. And the targetting system. Even then the potential target servicing rate is going to be way down.
They will be the only long range tactical strike asset (autonomous) avail for some time.
depending on target set, target loc, persistence, projection etc... then reload issues twixt subs and air will always have a cutover point...
but it clearly states that subs will be the LR tactical strikers that the F-111's used to undertake.