Hypothetical Cold War Invasion

[GI-Gizmo]

1980 Soviet Situation . . .

The unfolding events of the Soviet Union invading across Western Europe all the way to threatening an invasion of Britain would be anything but spectacular. By 1980 the Soviet economy had apexed and was in downfall fast. Leonid Brezhnev was in the last years of power over a stagnate economy, the technological division between the West and the USSR was apparent to everyone by then, near-Stalinist reforms, suppression of freedoms and a general backwards momentum in almost every area had the Soviet Union barely holding it together. The people under Communist rule were suffering and could see the prosperity of the West. To say that the majority of them would not question why they were initating a war, fighting freedom and obeying the people lying to them and keeping them oppressed would be naive. If the Soviet Union had initiated a war against the West in 1980, it most likely would of only hastened their demise. I realize the hypothetical question was what the defense of Britain, particularly London, would have looked like, but I had to give my opinion of what the big picture outcome of the war would of probably been. I don't think the 1980 Soviet armed forces would of made it to the French coast in order to threaten Britain with a conventional invasion. That is assuming that is where the invasion is coming from in this hypothetical scenario. They obviously had a numerical advantage, especially in armor, but the differences in technology were already so great by 1980 that the armored slug-fest in Central Europe would of probably decimated entire prongs of attack of Soviet armor. Throw in NATO airpower, especially US air assets, and the combined arms defenses put up by the Western forces would not be an easy wall of resistence to roll over.

 

[Feanor]

The unfolding events of the Soviet Union invading across Western Europe all the way to threatening an invasion of Britain would be anything but spectacular. By 1980 the Soviet economy had apexed and was in downfall fast. Leonid Brezhnev was in the last years of power over a stagnate economy, the technological division between the West and the USSR was apparent to everyone by then, near-Stalinist reforms, suppression of freedoms and a general backwards momentum in almost every area had the Soviet Union barely holding it together. The people under Communist rule were suffering and could see the prosperity of the West. To say that the majority of them would not question why they were initating a war, fighting freedom and obeying the people lying to them and keeping them oppressed would be naive.

As someone who was born in Russia, and who has very many relatives that lived under the USSR, let me assure you, you were thoroughly mistaken. What you say can in some extent be applied to the latter half of the perestroika. But in 1980 the situation was very different. The patriotic fervor that the invasion of Afghanistan (for example) inspired, was absolutely phenomenal. It was such that the Soviet Army had to turn down volunteers.

If the Soviet Union had initiated a war against the West in 1980, it most likely would of only hastened their demise. I realize the hypothetical question was what the defense of Britain, particularly London, would have looked like, but I had to give my opinion of what the big picture outcome of the war would of probably been. I don't think the 1980 Soviet armed forces would of made it to the French coast in order to threaten Britain with a conventional invasion. That is assuming that is where the invasion is coming from in this hypothetical scenario. They obviously had a numerical advantage, especially in armor, but the differences in technology were already so great by 1980 that the armored slug-fest in Central Europe would of probably decimated entire prongs of attack of Soviet armor. Throw in NATO airpower, especially US air assets, and the combined arms defenses put up by the Western forces would not be an easy wall of resistence to roll over.

As an opinion that's fine, but as a statement of fact highly debatable (at best). The most honest answer is that none of us actually know (or can know, or even can accurately predict) what would have happened. Especially given that the war plans of the time period are still thoroughly secret.

 

[GI-Gizmo]

. . . 1980 Soviet Army . . .

I did not mean to come off as though I know with absolute confidence that that would of been the outcome of a 1980 Soviet invasion across Europe and threatening Britain. I was simply stating my opinion of one possible situation. The internal Communist condition of 1980 obviously differs greatly from the restructuring (perestroika) of the late 1980s and early 1990s.
I was not at all comparing the mentality and operational capacity of the Russian army fighting the first Chechen war to the 1980 Soviet Army fighting a hypothetical war in Europe. Nobody, not even the people in charge of the forces back then or military historians specializing in the late Cold War could really say what would of happened. The scope of the possible struggle between the two sides is so massive, so many variables and so many possible ways of fighting it is impossible to guess any outcome. The hypothetical sutuation states that alot of NATO troops are on Christmas leave, Soviet forces prepared the invasion under the cloke of massing for Winter Exercises and that the Soviets have made it far enough to threaten Britain.
I'll try to stick to the actual subject of this thread and think about my opinion to that situation.

 

[Lostfleet]

Well, any invading army would have trouble getting through London traffic

I am really an amateur on this subject, but I want to share my opinion as well,

It seems to me, without total air supremacy, a Soviet invasion using both amphibious forces and air divisions would be very difficult. Also a single entry to UK via Scotland as suggested before would present the invading force some difficulties in time management. If the invasion of UK is planned, time is the essential element in this scenario. Although there might not be any support from continental Europe NATO allies ( in this scenario) there is still US in the whole picture. So Soviet forces must invade UK in such a swift time that US forces can not react to it.

That is why, they need to enter the country from multiple points and manage to capture or destroy most of the ports and airfields that are not under their control at the quickest time.

US has a very big Airlift capability and a very big civilian air fleet reserve, so on the smallest hint of an invasion of UK they may bring reinforcements ( at least Light Infantry forces) which might not be much at the beginning but it could aid to stall Soviet Advances.

If the invasion has a single front then it is easier for the defense forces to join however if it is multiple small fronts and include large urban areas ( as London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool) then they would have difficulty to from into effective defense line.

As I mentioned the urban areas, any invasion today or 30 years ago will have tremendous effect on the civilian forces. In WW2 many of the people did not have private transportation however since the 70s most of the European cities have many of their residence supplied with a car. So the threat of a Soviet invasion of a city would make the civilians block every existing road, so both the invading force and defending force would be effected by this. In this situation, invading force would have some advantage as the defending force will take more time to re-group. Therefore the invading force has more chance to fight on equal terms as it will take some time to bring all of their forces to the island.

Ireland is also a big issue here, even if all access to England and Scotland is cut-off, Ireland would be a jumping point for US Forces so any invasion of UK must be planned with all of the Isles effectively isolated from allied forces.

 

[kato]

So the threat of a Soviet invasion of a city would make the civilians block every existing road, so both the invading force and defending force would be effected by this.

Only if you don't prepare for it. In Germany, the entire road network in wartime would be broken down into a "Base Military Road Network" and a "Base Civilian Road Network". Running in parallel. The expection was that - both in nuclear or conventional warfare - there would be roundabout 5-7 million people on the move west, or about 10% of the German population. The road network was prepped for such a move, and areas in the West were equipped with additional infrastructure (auxiliary hospitals, food reserves etc) activated in wartime to handle the additional load.

 

[Lostfleet]

I never knew of that, Army has to act quickly to organize such a road diversion once the war threat is very near,

In case of Britain do you know any such plans?

( By the way thank you for your link on the other forum, i will try to find a German speaking friend to translate them)