Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[ThePuss]

Cool. Didn't get any external pics you could share?

Will take my camera in tomorrow mate

 

[Aussie Digger]

Will take my camera in tomorrow mate

Sweet. Looking forward to seeing the results.

Cheers,

AD

 

[icelord]

HMAS Perth cold moved today from the C.U.F to Stirling. Looking very complete from the outside, not so much from the inside.

I was lucky enough to get a full tour of the ship, right up into the new Cupola, I even stuck my head out the hatch on to the AN/SPS 49 deck i.e. 07 DECK!....nice view from up there :eek.

Very weird to walk around a class of ship that has basically been my home for a decade and for it to be so VERY different in many places. The OPS room is incredibly more spacious. It still has the foot print as the old one and has quite a few extra consoles in it, but because the consoles are much much thinner (They used to be very fat because of very large CRT screens) there is SO much more room(It used to be a nightmare trying to navigate around the old one at action station). Seriously the design (which is of a total new layout) looks like something out of the latest Star Trek movie....Flat Screen displays and space age looking consoles everywhere ....with just a few 1980's looking ones to stuff up the illusion!.

On another note I was told the plan was to convert the Chiefs mess to into a SS dining room (it's right next to the galley) and have the Chiefs move into the PO's mess(which is aft as you can go without being in the 3 November Fresh Fish Locker) with the bar being extended into the old PO's dining area.......How am i meant to hide from the Chief now! :hitwall

Its hard enough getting someone to respond from the POs mess as it is, without the chiefs in there, meaning you wont ever see a SS except meal times...which is not unusual really

Is there still the talk of reducing the Quarterdeck and placing a mess where bin storage normally is, because thats pretty pointless. Also i heard the Quarter deck itself is now enclosed, that true? And does Perth still run the waist chains or was that a trial? Our Jnrs Rec space became a 8man mess thanx to deployment, and looks to stay that way...joy!

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Its hard enough getting someone to respond from the POs mess as it is, without the chiefs in there, meaning you wont ever see a SS except meal times...which is not unusual really

Is there still the talk of reducing the Quarterdeck and placing a mess where bin storage normally is, because thats pretty pointless. Also i heard the Quarter deck itself is now enclosed, that true? And does Perth still run the waist chains or was that a trial? Our Jnrs Rec space became a 8man mess thanx to deployment, and looks to stay that way...joy!

The imagery of the ASMD upgrade showed the quaterdeck cut outs walled in so there could be space there for something and tough luck to the smokers.

But there is also another effort to stealthy up the waists with mesh screens and this includes the quarterdeck. But I think the RCS project is seperate to the ASMD.

AMT - RCS

 

[LancasterBomber]

Firstly, sorry Lancaster, that my reply has taken this long, I had other matters to attend to.
Yes, I understand that matters to do with defense budgeting are hugely complex, of course, and that procurement cost over runs are often caused by political interference.

Our system is not broken. There are enough 'nutbags' floating around (in society in general) with grossly simplistic views of the world and how to 'spend defence dollars' without adding you to the list.

I know our system is not broken, but, with the debacle regarding the Collins subs build, which affects the sub fleet to this day, (for instance), it clearly shows there is a huge breakdown of communication in the system, does it not?

Then there was the Sea Sprite business, another $1.2 billion lost. As I stated, I understand Gov screws things up for (I presume) your side of the purchasing/logistics chain, but this just keeps happening, huge delays, across the board in our military services, bad equipment purchases, eg soldier boots and backpacks, etc etc etc.

If this sort of incompetence, on whose ever side, was happening in the industry I worked in, that would be a total career ender right there!

By the way, I am not a "nutbag", and the criticisms I have raised here were actually raised by the same members you say I should listen to, ie, defense professionals.

I can only hope, pray, that the "system" is having a good hard and honest look at itself, and is trying to fix the problems inherent in it. Our country needs to be ready for any eventuality, and not in a token way, but in actuality whereby our men and women in active service get the best equipment and hardware cover that can be supplied. The Afghanistan revelations recently, by serving soldiers, suggest this is not happening.

So, no Lancaster, I am not assured by your statement that our nation's security needs are covered. All the evidence suggests, even anecdotally on this forum, that our forces have been let down, by successive governments, Labor and Liberal, and the bureacracy, in general, needs a good overhaul, to become more effective to stop unnecessary costs.

On that last point, I do note, after reading the official site for the AWD's, that a new approach is to be made, whereby Gov. service and contractors all have a hands on and share decision making, so another Collins breakdown is avoided. That is a good sign. I trust this approach will be seen across the board in other areas of development and purchase.

I apologise, if I appeared too much of a witch hunter, I am nothing of a sort. However, it is good to find out where people stand and gain some more insight, afterall, this is an open forum of discussion, not a gov site, and I must accept people are what they say they are. Hence, my fair minded approach.

However, I just cannot see anyone successfully defending the ridiculous mistakes made with the Collins and Sea Sprite programmes. Whomever was actually responsible for the major mistakes I hope does not have anything to do with future projects, unless the changes made to organization and communication etc (as with the AWD programme) have eliminated such systemic problems for build projects.

This is my observational opinion based on results, and I am not alone in my criticisms.

cheers,
jay

Wow. Let me rephrase my previous post in clearer terms...

I think you are completely and utterly out of your depth and largely grandstanding on issues, concepts and platforms you have almost zero apparent knowledge or experience.

i.e baseless pejorative nonsense whereby you draw conclusions in an absolute sense based on an utterly trivial understanding.

I love reading everyone's opinions on here mate but you are painting with brush strokes that are far too wide IMO.

 

[LancasterBomber]

HMAS Perth cold moved today from the C.U.F to Stirling. Looking very complete from the outside,

Nice. I will go down have a look tomorrow.

 

[ThePuss]

Here you go Boys and Girls, Not the best quality as I could not find the charger for my camera and had to use my shitty IPhone camera.

View attachment 4267

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Here you go Boys and Girls, Not the best quality as I could not find the charger for my camera and had to use my shitty IPhone camera.

Nice. Looks like the actual CEAFAR/CEAMOUNT radar arrays have not been fitted yet. Good to see that logic prevailed and the CEAMOUNT illuminators were moved up to the cupola for better fields of regards than underneath it.

Did you perchance to see if the quarterdeck cutouts had been filled in?

 

[ThePuss]

Its hard enough getting someone to respond from the POs mess as it is, without the chiefs in there, meaning you wont ever see a SS except meal times...which is not unusual really

Is there still the talk of reducing the Quarterdeck and placing a mess where bin storage normally is, because thats pretty pointless. Also i heard the Quarter deck itself is now enclosed, that true? And does Perth still run the waist chains or was that a trial? Our Jnrs Rec space became a 8man mess thanx to deployment, and looks to stay that way...joy!

Come on!, Parra got a new rec space in 2LZ4 when you lost 3K......you can fit like a whole 5 guys in there at once! so quite your complaining! :finger (Kidding)

Yup the AX is now fully enclosed, in fact it is fully lagged and air conditioned (coldest compartment on the ship apparently). Even the old hatch going down to AFT steering is now flush with the deck. I have not heard anything about a new mess deck there.

Imageshack - 044ka.jpg

And yes PERTH is still set up for the waist chains (Onboard they where calling them curtains). They were not rigged at the moment but in the bellow photo you can see some of the more permanent fittings (it's going to be a complete nightmare loading the Tubes on her! )

Imageshack - 035j.jpg

 

[ThePuss]

Nice. Looks like the actual CEAFAR/CEAMOUNT radar arrays have not been fitted yet. Good to see that logic prevailed and the CEAMOUNT illuminators were moved up to the cupola for better fields of regards than underneath it.

Did you perchance to see if the quarterdeck cutouts had been filled in?

Nope the CEAFAR/CEAMOUNTS are most definitely fitted...I've been inside the cupola. They take up very little room and you could swing a cat in there. They had to make the cupola as big as they did so the you plonk the AN/SPS 49 on top.

As to the Quaterdeck please see my last post . This was infact done around a year ago, before PERTH went into the ASMD upgrade.


A couple more pikkies linked bellow
http://img841.imageshack.us/i/036pp.jpg/

http://img193.imageshack.us/i/031ca.jpg/

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Nope the CEAFAR/CEAMOUNTS are most definitely fitted...I've been inside the cupola. They take up very little room and you could swing a cat in there. They had to make the cupola as big as they did so the you plonk the AN/SPS 49 on top.

Yeah I'm familiar with how small the back end of the CEAPAR arrays are. But I was thinking they weren't there based on the unfamiliar external appearance. It would appear that the arrays have a radome type cover fitted to protect them from the elements. This explains the larger external mould line and the smooth surface instead of the array of circular antennas.

The next big step for the Anzacs is the replacement of the EW and VSR (SPS-49) so the cupola may get even bigger…

Interesting that Peth has all the RCS attenuation with the new top hamper, waist screens and quarterdeck coverings but still has the old style rounded gun house for the Mk 45. These rounded gun houses are major RCS hot spots and have been replaced by angular houses in new production Mk 45s. Perhaps this needs to be swapped out for one of the five RAN Anzacs that have the low RCS gun house otherwise Perth is not going to have much of a RCS reduction from all the other changes.

Thanks for the pictures.

 

[ThePuss]

Yeah I'm familiar with how small the back end of the CEAPAR arrays are. But I was thinking they weren't there based on the unfamiliar external appearance. It would appear that the arrays have a radome type cover fitted to protect them from the elements. This explains the larger external mould line and the smooth surface instead of the array of circular antennas.

The next big step for the Anzacs is the replacement of the EW and VSR (SPS-49) so the cupola may get even bigger…

Interesting that Peth has all the RCS attenuation with the new top hamper, waist screens and quarterdeck coverings but still has the old style rounded gun house for the Mk 45. These rounded gun houses are major RCS hot spots and have been replaced by angular houses in new production Mk 45s. Perhaps this needs to be swapped out for one of the five RAN Anzacs that have the low RCS gun house otherwise Perth is not going to have much of a RCS reduction from all the other changes.

Thanks for the pictures.

True , but all the ANZAC's are going to get the same treatment so there will always be three with the old "Round" mount. Maybe if the navy is serious they need to purchase three new "Square" Shield's....(not the entire gun just the shield). Should only be a couple of million a pop and as a maintainer you have about three times the room to work in and you can even go out one of the two doors (impossible on the "Round" mount) I LOVE THE SQUARE SHIELD! :heart

 

[icelord]

Come on!, Parra got a new rec space in 2LZ4 when you lost 3K......you can fit like a whole 5 guys in there at once! so quite your complaining! :finger (Kidding)

Ahem, the rec space in 2LZ4 became EBC mess for deployment, which is now staying that way as extra mess bunks. Will remain so more trainee bunks is my guess, but these guys can head to Kilo messing and live with the rest of the crew, rather then there own 'private' quarters.

Dibbys, Comms mess in Echo lost tv shelf for new bunk nd locker for translater while we were away(the term "chainsaw" was best to describe 1 of these guys, as im end corner and still heard him at all hours) It got down to how many people could we squeeze onboard, would not surprise me if 01F becomes a mess at some point.

Yup the AX is now fully enclosed, in fact it is fully lagged and air conditioned (coldest compartment on the ship apparently). Even the old hatch going down to AFT steering is now flush with the deck. I have not heard anything about a new mess deck there.

The internal section of the Qtr deck is what ive heard, where bins go. On that good luck closing it with garbage all the time.
The air con would struggle in MEAO though, Flt deck does hit 52-55 on a good day, think our best was 68-70. with PO's and birdies mess underneath, boundary cooling was all day event. As we discovered, Air con works great in cold climates...struggles in the heat.

And yes PERTH is still set up for the waist chains (Onboard they where calling them curtains). They were not rigged at the moument but in the bellow photo you can see some of the more permanent fittings (it's going to be a complete nightmare loading the Tubes on her! )

im puzzled by the set up, Does it really reduce that much RCS i mean it seems limited to change a steel plate for a guard rail. Good luck to Perths Greenies while ammunitioning next year on the torpedos...

Many thanks for the pics, may get a chance in the future to see it at work

 

[ThePuss]

Ahem, the rec space in 2LZ4 became EBC mess for deployment, which is now staying that way as extra mess bunks. Will remain so more trainee bunks is my guess, but these guys can head to Kilo messing and live with the rest of the crew, rather then there own 'private' quarters.

Dibbys, Comms mess in Echo lost tv shelf for new bunk nd locker for translater while we were away(the term "chainsaw" was best to describe 1 of these guys, as im end corner and still heard him at all hours) It got down to how many people could we squeeze onboard, would not surprise me if 01F becomes a mess at some point.



The internal section of the Qtr deck is what ive heard, where bins go. On that good luck closing it with garbage all the time.
The air con would struggle in MEAO though, Flt deck does hit 52-55 on a good day, think our best was 68-70. with PO's and birdies mess underneath, boundary cooling was all day event. As we discovered, Air con works great in cold climates...struggles in the heat.


im puzzled by the set up, Does it really reduce that much RCS i mean it seems limited to change a steel plate for a guard rail. Good luck to Perths Greenies while ammunitioning next year on the torpedos...

Many thanks for the pics, may get a chance in the future to see it at work

WOW you have lost the 2L rec space back into a mess deck( mind you back in the day it used to be a 4 berth).....I thought you where talking about the old rec space in 3K (showing my age :rel).

Bins will have to go onto the waist, like we used to do during RELEX, Can't keep them internal.

NOTE to non NAVY/ANZAC sailors...I appologise about this very important (for just two of us here) conversaton and promise to bring it to a close.........in 3,2,1...well maybe

By the way Icelord they are not replacing guard rails for steel plate....something a little more Fancy than Steel , Nuff said.

 

[StevoJH]

By the way Icelord they are not replacing guard rails for steel plate....something a little more Fancy than Steel , Nuff said.

Carbon Fibre or Fibre glass or something?

Edit: not sure how those would go for splinters if the ship actually ever got shot at though.....

 

[ThePuss]

Carbon Fibre or Fibre glass or something?

Edit: not sure how those would go for splinters if the ship actually ever got shot at though.....

Sorry "Secret Squirrel" stuff ....But it's not there to stop splinters

 

[icelord]

Sorry "Secret Squirrel" stuff ....But it's not there to stop splinters

wink wink, nudge nudge say no more say no more...

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Sorry "Secret Squirrel" stuff ....But it's not there to stop splinters

I provided the link the RCS screens project summary further up the thread.

AMT - RCS

AMT worked closely with the RAN's system matter expert for RCS in DSTO, to complete the design using woven stainless steel ring mesh sliding screens, similar to successful installations for the South African Navy (SAN) and Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN).

Not too secret...

 

[gf0012-aust]

I provided the link the RCS screens project summary further up the thread.

AMT - RCS



Not too secret...

the problem is that with respect to some of the capabilities - even if they are in the public domain insiders cannot comment in the public domain. even if it is blindingly obvious.

I've seen people lose their clearances for public comment even though it was available open source.

 

[Ozymandias]

the problem is that with respect to some of the capabilities - even if they are in the public domain insiders cannot comment in the public domain. even if it is blindingly obvious.

I've seen people lose their clearances for public comment even though it was available open source.

Is AMT therefore an insder who is in breach of their obligations by having it on their website?