Pulling its weight would be paying in proportion to usage. If NZ wanted 25% of the flying hours, then 25% of the price would be fair.
Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
In the absence of much in the way of news from the Australian DoD (mostly due to a caretaker Defence Minister I'd say) there are reports that the US has released the full EA-18G Growler capability to be acquired by Australia, should we require it...
Defence given lift-off to buy Growler warplanes | The Australian
Defence given lift-off to buy Growler warplanes | The Australian
Interesting that the US have given the go ahead should we require it. I wonder if the Australian government had previously enquired formally into the availability of the possible purchase?
How much would it cost to upgrade the 12 Super Hornets in question to the full EA-18G capability?
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
No idea, but I sincerely doubt that RAAF would be interested in operating half it's Super Hornet fleet as Growlers. The 24x aircraft they've got have to act as our main strike capability, as a Growler if this capability set were to be chosen and as the aircraft for Super Hornet OCU. Then it has air defence taskings and FAC/CAS taskings increasingly too.
That's an AWFUL lot requirements for a single operational squadron...
The Government did formally request access to the Growler capability if we require it. This appears now to be granted...
Yes, you require an ITARs release even if announced as an intended purchase
'twas planned long ago. most ITARs negotiations take 12 months etc... even for manportable gear
t68
Well-Known Member
Would it be F35A might again slip further than planned, bugs given the extra wiring converted and possible their might be another buy be on the cards as replacements for legacy Hornets?
I am still a believer in a 2 type fleet regarding block obsolesce. But if what was put out a while ago about the price Australia will pay (60 million fly away USD) if true might as well go with the better plane from the beginning.
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t68
Well-Known Member
Possible problems with the new hornets at RAAF Edinburgh, not sure what the problem is lead aircraft seems to have practice ordnance on her and the rest in a clean configuration.
Anyone know what happened?
Australian 4WD Action | Forum - View topic - Busted new FA18 'Rhino'? Now with pics!
Anyone know what happened?
Australian 4WD Action | Forum - View topic - Busted new FA18 'Rhino'? Now with pics!
1) the fact that there is a flight rather than the usual single would indicate that they are testing more than just weapons release
2) a flight would indicate that they're heading off to woomera for further work
3) the test dev unit is at Edinburgh, plus the geeks and other sexy bits (JORN cmd etc...)
some of those blokes need to stick to 4wd's...
t68
Well-Known Member
Thought it was a bit strange if that where happening that they would not park them on the hardstand area not near the taxi way near the boundary fence area and put up portable lighting to secure the area and be there a few days.1) the fact that there is a flight rather than the usual single would indicate that they are testing more than just weapons release
2) a flight would indicate that they're heading off to woomera for further work
3) the test dev unit is at Edinburgh, plus the geeks and other sexy bits (JORN cmd etc...)
some of those blokes need to stick to 4wd's...
Interesting i did not know that ARDU was at RAAF Edinburgh i always thought that majority of work was done at RAAF Amberley being based there and weapons testing at Woomera
But you would be in the know GF thanks for the heads up.
RAAF Base Edinburgh: Royal Australian Air Force
http://www.woomera.com.au/documents/WTFCapabilityBrief20May08.pdf
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edinburgh has always been the primary test site due to the proximity of DSTO.
amberley is a super base, but they don't have the geeks, don't have the space warfare or future sensor shops. UAV developments and management is also run out of edinburgh.
one of my colleagues has just scored a geek job for these...
Lucky bugger! Ask him to give boeing a call and order a few containerized Phantom Ray's to play with.
What does it cost to retro fit JSF as UAV again? (just stirring the pot)
hey guys i was just googling ADF procurement and this poped up. i figured you guys might like reading it as much as i did.
Australian Defence Force Regional Air Superiority
Australian Defence Force Regional Air Superiority
OpinionNoted
Banned Member
news regarding jassm-
Massoud splash
Misfiring missiles - doubts emerge over US weapon
* Ian McPhedran
* From: The Daily Telegraph
* September 09, 2010 12:00AM
ANOTHER big ticket American-run defence contract is on the verge of being added to the shame file.
Four years after a $370 million contract to provide the RAAF with a new long-range missile was signed by US giant Lockheed Martin, not a single weapon has been delivered and no "live fire" trials have taken place.
Software integration is again the stumbling block and this time the culprit is the US Navy.
At $1.2 million each, the Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile will provide the RAAF with a long-range strike capability after its fleet of F-111 strike aircraft is retired. The aircraft will be gone within weeks, but there is no sign the missiles will be delivered or functional before next year.
The stealth long-range cruise missile carries a 450kg blast or penetration warhead and has a range of about 350km. An extended version can travel more than 1000km.
It is supposed to be fitted to the RAAF's F/A-18 Hornets and eventually to the new Joint Strike Fighter. Insiders report the problem is that the US Navy is integrating the Australian weapon when it hasn't even ordered the missile for its own use.
"The US Navy owns the software and won't release it to the RAAF," a source said.
This is a common problem with weapons purchased from the United States.
An Australian F/A-18 Hornet is at the USN's China Lake air weapons station in California's Mojave Desert waiting for the first "live" fire trial.
Once that is completed tests will be conducted at the Woomera range in South Australia before the weapon is delivered to the RAAF.
The JASSM has been successfully fitted to US Air Force F-16, B-1, B-2 and B-52 aircraft, and is to be added to the F-15 fighter.
Massoud splash
Misfiring missiles - doubts emerge over US weapon
* Ian McPhedran
* From: The Daily Telegraph
* September 09, 2010 12:00AM
ANOTHER big ticket American-run defence contract is on the verge of being added to the shame file.
Four years after a $370 million contract to provide the RAAF with a new long-range missile was signed by US giant Lockheed Martin, not a single weapon has been delivered and no "live fire" trials have taken place.
Software integration is again the stumbling block and this time the culprit is the US Navy.
At $1.2 million each, the Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile will provide the RAAF with a long-range strike capability after its fleet of F-111 strike aircraft is retired. The aircraft will be gone within weeks, but there is no sign the missiles will be delivered or functional before next year.
The stealth long-range cruise missile carries a 450kg blast or penetration warhead and has a range of about 350km. An extended version can travel more than 1000km.
It is supposed to be fitted to the RAAF's F/A-18 Hornets and eventually to the new Joint Strike Fighter. Insiders report the problem is that the US Navy is integrating the Australian weapon when it hasn't even ordered the missile for its own use.
"The US Navy owns the software and won't release it to the RAAF," a source said.
This is a common problem with weapons purchased from the United States.
An Australian F/A-18 Hornet is at the USN's China Lake air weapons station in California's Mojave Desert waiting for the first "live" fire trial.
Once that is completed tests will be conducted at the Woomera range in South Australia before the weapon is delivered to the RAAF.
The JASSM has been successfully fitted to US Air Force F-16, B-1, B-2 and B-52 aircraft, and is to be added to the F-15 fighter.
i'm afraid that isnt a 'news' article, as the author is simply trolling nonsense as usual
this is the first link from google, but there would be later ones
LM's JASSM-ER Missile Maintains Perfect Success Rate with Latest Flight Test - ASDNews
(Orlando, FL., November 11, 2009) -- The Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile-Extended Range (JASSM-ER) successfully completed its sixth flight demonstration in a recent test at White Sands Missile Range, NM. The JASSM-ER program is now six for six flight test successes.
"JASSM-ER's test successes are a result of a dedicated team effort," said Col. Stephen Demers, JASSM Program Manager and 308th Armament Systems Group Commander. "We've built an impressive missile with an unrivaled capability for our Warfighters."
During the latest successful flight test, the missile was released from a B-1B aircraft and flew a preplanned course to collect data, and then destroyed the designated target.
edit, it seems it willl be fielded in 2013
VIDEO: Air Force JASSM ER cruise missile -- No need for an ER - As The Croft Flies
this is the first link from google, but there would be later ones
LM's JASSM-ER Missile Maintains Perfect Success Rate with Latest Flight Test - ASDNews
(Orlando, FL., November 11, 2009) -- The Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile-Extended Range (JASSM-ER) successfully completed its sixth flight demonstration in a recent test at White Sands Missile Range, NM. The JASSM-ER program is now six for six flight test successes.
"JASSM-ER's test successes are a result of a dedicated team effort," said Col. Stephen Demers, JASSM Program Manager and 308th Armament Systems Group Commander. "We've built an impressive missile with an unrivaled capability for our Warfighters."
During the latest successful flight test, the missile was released from a B-1B aircraft and flew a preplanned course to collect data, and then destroyed the designated target.
edit, it seems it willl be fielded in 2013
VIDEO: Air Force JASSM ER cruise missile -- No need for an ER - As The Croft Flies
weasel1962
New Member
Re:
Actually, Jack, that's the -ER version not the baseline version ordered by the RAAF.
Lockheed Martin Delivers the 1,000TH Joint Air-To-Surface Standoff Missile to the U.S. Air Force | Lockheed Martin
Amazing that some "insider" should state "it hasn't even ordered the missile for its own use". By Apr 2010, 1,000 JASSM missiles have already been delivered to the USAF (and I believe some RAAF as this was up to lot 7 [raaf lots should be 6-7]).
Australia's Defence Material Organisation Signs Contract For Lockheed Martin's JASSM for Air 5418 - Follow on Standoff Weapon
The deliveries were scheduled for 2009 onwards. So how can it be 4 years late when it was scheduled for 2009? How can it be for the F-111 when it was initially slated for the F-18.
Its just journo sloth. Too lazy even to read official press releases.
Actually, Jack, that's the -ER version not the baseline version ordered by the RAAF.
Lockheed Martin Delivers the 1,000TH Joint Air-To-Surface Standoff Missile to the U.S. Air Force | Lockheed Martin
Amazing that some "insider" should state "it hasn't even ordered the missile for its own use". By Apr 2010, 1,000 JASSM missiles have already been delivered to the USAF (and I believe some RAAF as this was up to lot 7 [raaf lots should be 6-7]).
Australia's Defence Material Organisation Signs Contract For Lockheed Martin's JASSM for Air 5418 - Follow on Standoff Weapon
The deliveries were scheduled for 2009 onwards. So how can it be 4 years late when it was scheduled for 2009? How can it be for the F-111 when it was initially slated for the F-18.
Its just journo sloth. Too lazy even to read official press releases.
I know this is a change of subject, but it is something that has concerned me for years.
Back in the '60's. the RAAF had some 40 Australian assembled Canberra Light Bombers, and 112 Australian assembled Mirages 111'.s. With the retirement of the F111;s, we will have some 70 FA18;s and 24 F/A 18F's, until such time as the F35's arrive to replace the F/A18's.
Now it should be obvious to one and all that like the RAN, the RAAF has been allowed to downsize. Australia has grown considerably since the '60's, by maybe 20%. The RAN and RAAF should also have grown in proportion, not shrunk.
The F111 should have been retired 10 - 12 years ago, and we should now be considering an upgrade to its replacement. The F/A-18 should have been replaced about the time it was realised the bodies were wearing out, some 5 years ago. And I see we are going to replace our 18 Orions with 8 aircraft. Another example of downsizing.
I know some will argue that the replacement aircraft are far more capable than the previous aircraft, but is'nt that always the case?
Again, we should be increasing the size of our air force and navy to reflect the growth of our population and economy.
Back in the '60's. the RAAF had some 40 Australian assembled Canberra Light Bombers, and 112 Australian assembled Mirages 111'.s. With the retirement of the F111;s, we will have some 70 FA18;s and 24 F/A 18F's, until such time as the F35's arrive to replace the F/A18's.
Now it should be obvious to one and all that like the RAN, the RAAF has been allowed to downsize. Australia has grown considerably since the '60's, by maybe 20%. The RAN and RAAF should also have grown in proportion, not shrunk.
The F111 should have been retired 10 - 12 years ago, and we should now be considering an upgrade to its replacement. The F/A-18 should have been replaced about the time it was realised the bodies were wearing out, some 5 years ago. And I see we are going to replace our 18 Orions with 8 aircraft. Another example of downsizing.
I know some will argue that the replacement aircraft are far more capable than the previous aircraft, but is'nt that always the case?
Again, we should be increasing the size of our air force and navy to reflect the growth of our population and economy.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
RAN and RAAF are not alone. Army has shrunk overall too (ELF be damned!) and it's qualitative edge has been allowed to diminish significantly (there is no longer a capability within Army that provides over-match within the SEA region, with the possible exception of SOCOMD... Even our M1A1 and LAND 17 projects at best will allow us to catch up to regional capabilities already extant, though in FAR smaller quantities...)
Our defence budget keeps rising, but the force we possess that is qualitatively sufficient to allow it to deploy to a modern battlespace keeps shrinking. One wonders where all that money is going...
RAAF submitted a proposal to "grow" to a fifth operational fighter squadron to adequately support the Army's "Enhanced Land Force" expansion a couple of years back. Such would have brought us back to a force level of about 120x tactical fighters.
The outcome of this request can be seen by all and sundry...
Of course our capability is far greater today than it has been in years gone by, but there is no doubting the fact that RAAF's operational fighter strike capability has reduced in quantity over the years.
I actually consider it extremely lucky that they've managed to stay at 4x operational fighter squadrons. The RAAF itself recommended reducing it's capability to only 3x F/A-18A/B+ Hornet Squadrons in the 2000 White Paper, with the alleged overall capability improved with the addition of long ranged standoff missiles, greater PGM capability and a handful of new air to air refuellers.
Thank god the much maligned Brendan Nelson had the foresight to insist upon acquiring the Super Hornets or RAAF would be hard pressed arguing their much touted "over match" status within SEA. Given our defence structure is still largely defined by the structure that Paul DIBB enabled to be put in place, it doesn't say much for the Australian Governance of Defence, that it's primary strategy no longer achieves it's aim (obvious over match of air and sea capabilities to defend the air-sea gap and mobile land based forces designed to defeat "limited incursions".)
JASSM is a good missile (provided Defence ever manage to complete it's integration on the Hornets...) and JDAM's are top shelf PGM's no doubt about it, but they don't do much for concurrent operational capability...
OpinionNoted
Banned Member
australias population-
1960 -10.39 m
1965 -11.38 m
1970 -12.66 m
according to the australian population clock now-22,476,299
thats an increase of just on 100% since 1965
down sized mbt fleet with 59 abrams on account of having same gun foot print as 90 leopards.