Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[LancasterBomber]

the geeks sometimes need the reality check though - for too long they have designed capabilities looking for a platform and not the other way around - ie a capability around a future identified requirement. however, they do an amazing job, DSTO geeks have made advances in acoustic warfare that the americans (eg) didn't think possible.

Yeah you are right and know a hell of lot more than me in this area but I think you have to allow the 'field of dreams' business model (i.e build it and they will come) to run free particularly in these bleeding edge areas. Its the same with robotics and I guess artificial intelligence.

The market and CONOPS isn't always their waiting for you from the beginning. That doesn't render the research any less important.

Look at what Colin Angle has achieved. If he didn't blindly sink his teeth into robotics in 1990 (Post MIT) he would never of been in a position to pounce on the IED market which boomed in Iraq in 2002.

You have to let the geeks run riot but then you need this other group of "connectors" who have the strategic mindset to marry innovation to asymmetric threats. We have to always be ready to re-write CONOPS.

Sub design is obviously a very different ball park to little plug and play 'modular' weapons platforms in Iraq.

 

[gf0012-aust]

You have to let the geeks run riot but then you need this other group of "connectors" who have the strategic mindset to marry innovation to asymmetric threats. We have to always be ready to re-write CONOPS.

Sub design is obviously a very different ball park to little plug and play 'modular' weapons platforms in Iraq.

Agree but heavily laced with caution.

I spent a number of years playing with NAVSEA, DARPA, SAIC, DSTO, CSIRO and the original DERA. I've played in UDT, ballistics and the ewarfare space.

you're talking about herding cats... its easier said than done, and the geeks can have very very narrow interest spans - and that can be part of the problem. some clearly only want to play with the gucci kit, and they don't have the readies to follow through a weapons system development through to IOC - let alone FOC

 

[Blas de Lezo]

Just a quick message, not wanting to post oneliners, a quick visit to fotosdebarcos.com :: Índice to see the progress of HMAS Camberra.

[ame]http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af297/senalero101/Agosto%2010/100824-Camberra-319.jpg[/ame]

Best regards.

 

[Blas de Lezo]

For some reason the link does not work so... here is the link

fotosdebarcos.com :: Ver tema - HMAS Camberra

 

[StingrayOZ]

Nice pics, the side profile picture shows shes comming along quiet nicely...

One of the best defence decisions ever IMHO.

 

[the road runner]

Nice pics, the side profile picture shows shes comming along quiet nicely...

One of the best defence decisions ever IMHO.

2ND that. She is starting to look like a LHD.Keep the pictures comming Blas de Lezo

60 Minutes did a story on the recent Rimpac exercises of Hawaii.

They show a computer animation of Kanimbla the OLD Melbourne and the NEW Canberra LHD.The Canberras are massive,cannot wait to see them cruise into Sydney.

Professor Hugh White makes some valid points.He gives the feeling that the RAN Naval build up, is to counter chinas Navy. But he dose not state that :roll2

*When loading the Video Just watch the comercial first,and the story will come next.

60 Minutes: Firepower on MSN Video

Wonder if NZ is looking to add an LHD to its fleet

Regards.

 

[riksavage]

2ND that. She is starting to look like a LHD.Keep the pictures comming Blas de Lezo

60 Minutes did a story on the recent Rimpac exercises of Hawaii.

They show a computer animation of Kanimbla the OLD Melbourne and the NEW Canberra LHD.The Canberras are massive,cannot wait to see them cruise into Sydney.

Professor Hugh White makes some valid points.He gives the feeling that the RAN Naval build up, is to counter chinas Navy. But he dose not state that :roll2

*When loading the Video Just watch the comercial first,and the story will come next.

60 Minutes: Firepower on MSN Video

Wonder if NZ is looking to add an LHD to its fleet

Regards.

Tthe Kiwi's might get the chance to buy a cheap second hand Albion or Bay soon! Build an ANZAC Amphib force, spread the cost. The Albions come with a great C&C set-up.

 

[swerve]

I think an Albion would be gross overkill for the RNZN. A Bay would be nice, except they then have a spare HMNZS Canterbury, since there'd be no point in keeping both.

The navy which really might want to take the opportunity to snap up a spare Bay is the RAN. It's a very good fit indeed for the proposed sealift ship. The only problem I can see is that the timescales might not fit.

 

[Sea Toby]

Tthe Kiwi's might get the chance to buy a cheap second hand Albion or Bay soon! Build an ANZAC Amphib force, spread the cost. The Albions come with a great C&C set-up.

There are a number of nations in the market for amphibious ships. Argentina. Portugal, Turkey, Greece, and South Africa are probable; Australia, Canada, and Argentina are possible which may snatch a used Bay class... I would place India on this list if they hadn't acquired one or two used Austins... The UK will have no problems selling a Bay...

 

[gf0012-aust]

One of the best defence decisions ever IMHO.

right idea, but wrong platform,

another unfort example of political interference in the platform selection process which will come back and bite us later....

 

[AegisFC]

right idea, but wrong platform,

another unfort example of political interference in the platform selection process which will come back and bite us later....

I'll ask the obvious. What platform would you of choose?

 

[gf0012-aust]

I'll ask the obvious. What platform would you of choose?

rephrase

right platform, wrong solution sets

its an offline answer beyond this

 

[StingrayOZ]

But the idea and the platform are still pretty big wins.

The build, fitout, systems, use etc are other issue. The fact that they are actually underconstruction means we will most likely get them.

 

[gf0012-aust]

But the idea ....................] are still pretty big wins.

.

no comment.

its a bloody joke

 

[The_Wrecker]

no comment.

its a bloody joke

Although I rarely post on here due to my lack of knowledge in regard to Naval and military matters, I am a very interested observer. I have learnt a lot from your insightful posts in the past gf0012 and want to thank you very for the time you put into your responses.
That said, can you once again give us your thoughts regarding this matter as I am very interested to know the back story.

 

[jack412]

gf, initially you were very positive about it
is there anything in the public domain yet. about the pros and cons of the fitout or conops that you can point us too

 

[StingrayOZ]

no comment.

its a bloody joke

Hmmm, I am curious, perhaps we will see these issues crop up at at IOC or FOC. So this is a process problem not a problem with the actual asset itself?

Is it to do with fitout in Australia?

Oh well, I guess that ideal procurement still alludes us.

 

[PeterM]

On a completely different tack, is there any news on potential options for other programs such as the OPV or LCH programs (SEA1180 and JP2048 (phase 5)) ?

I know they are a little way in the future, both are scheduled for first pass approval in FY2012/13 to FY2013/14, which presumably is planned for the current government term (at least at this stage).

These are among the next major procurement decisions for the RAN and given the time-frame presumably would be based of existing designs.

Pure speculation I guess, but what kind of options could be considered for these programs?

Other than what has been released in the DCP and White Papers, what kind of capabilities/systems could the RAN be looking for?

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

I have the impression DMO just closed the tender for registration of interest by suppliers for sea 1180.

The RAN appears to be looking at a modular approach hoping to combine MCM + survey + pb capabilities into one design.

At the high end, there's navantia's buque de accion but I think that could be a but larger than RAN requirements.

I tot a self designed vessel using stanflex modules might not be beyond ASC. The older flyvefisken class is approx armidale size.

Another option might be the canadian kingston.

Austal will also be a contender. Their 78.5m trimaran multirole corvette looks compactly good. The stats and capabilities appear targeted at RAN. NRH-90 helo deck + 320 tons + 43 crew.

http://www.austal.com/download.cfm?DownloadFile=823BC462-65BF-EBC1-2072A2CC3C2D1D40

 

[gf0012-aust]

That said, can you once again give us your thoughts regarding this matter as I am very interested to know the back story.

thanks for your other comments.

re above. as much as I'd love to comment on more it would be career imprudence to do so in a public forum.

needless to say, the day that we can prosecute politicians for their decision making interventions is the day that I vote for that political party.

unfort both major parties have engaged in this kind of politically motivated seagull management, so it's a politically agnostic issue.