Should I join the Australian Army, British Army or the French Foreign Legion?

[kittikhun]

Hello.

My name is Kittikhun, I'm seventeen years old and just about to take my HSC exams later this year. Recently I have researching a lot about my future career prospects once I have graduated from school and have finished my university studies. I plan on becoming a chocko combat engineer or carpenter in the Australian Army Reserves whilst undertaking my tertiary studies. However, I do not know what to do after I graduate from university. Before, I wanted to become an Infantry, Armoured or Intelligence Corps officer in the Australian Army but in registering the future peace-keeping nature of the ADF in the Asia-Pacific region I'm starting to have doubts and I have thus started to become interested in becoming a rifleman in the British Army and staying there until I attain the rank of sergeant whence I would like to transfer to the Australian Army. The French Foreign Legion also appeals to me but only because of its eminently strong esprit de corps and because of the fact that one doesn't fight for patriotic sentiments in the Legion but instead for the Legion and for your mates. Like most young lads I want to receive the best training that I possibly could and to apply those acquired skills in practice. In my opinion, I believe that RMC Duntroon affords the best leadership training in the world; that the British Army affords the best infantry training in the world; and that the French Foreign Legion would allow me the opportunity to see combat and put those skills that I have learnt into practice. However, I am basing these opinions on supposition. Is my reasoning wrong? Does anyone have any experience with these armies? I want to base my decision on how much I would learn, on how many opportunities would be provided for me, and on how much I would experience of the world i.e. if I were to learn more in the British Army I would enlist in the British Army, and not really on patriotism. Is it better to become an enlisted man or an officer? Do you go on many specialist courses in the French Foreign Legion?

Thank you.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

I think you should take a while to consider this decision, its a big one.

First of all if you join the ADF its likely you will be deployed to Afghanistan. The 'stan is a real, no sh*t, shooting war and diggers are fighting and dying over there all the time. You will see action with the ADF, you will see heaps if you can get yourself into SOCOMD.

You will see more regular infantry action with Brits, they use their infantry in a more active role than the ADF does. Also I’m pretty sure you'll end up with UK citizenship for what its worth. Pluss culturally the pommies are just like us, more like us than the yanks are so you'll fit in easilly.

The French Foreign Legion is a tough deal. Do you speak French? If not then you'll have to learn, quick smart. Its seriously intimidating being immersed in a foreign language, but being in a military whose language you don’t speak? A really tough deal. Again you get French citizenship after discharge which is great if you want to live there after. As for more action to be honest I think you'd see more in the UK military. AFAIK a whole bunch of the Legion's deployments are basically peace keeping/enforcement missions in Africa. If you want to get shot at, Afghanistan is the go. Plus AFAIK the Legion is a 5 year contract for foreign nationals, that’s it. Aus and UK can be career moves.

Anyways if you study here with the ADF there will be plenty of opportunities here when you finish up.

Goodluck.

 

[Mitch Mtchell]

Hello Mate,

I've served in both the Foreign Legion (joined at 18 for five years) and the British Army (through the ranks to LE Officer) and I'm now a private contractor in Afghanistan.

Contrary to your first reply, the Legion is actively engaged in Afghanistan and has been for years. Legion Regiments form one of the two GTIAs (Battle Groups) the French have deployed in Kapisa Province and they are seeing combat - just that the Anglo-Saxon press does not report much about the French.

The Legion also undertake Peace Enforcement duties on a regular basis in Africa, which means lots of nasty little engagements the rest of the world doesn't hear about. Then when an intervention Operation arises, Legion units are the instruments of choice for the French Govt. Recent Ops include Ivory Coast, Central African Republic, Chad, Congo.

if you want to do something different, learn another language; learn how to cope with and lead men (no women in the Legion apart from a few attached French Army admin NCOs) of different nationalities, colours, creeds, classes and cultures (racists are not welcome) and become psychologically hardened then join the Legion first. Mind you - you might not get in. It's only 8,000 strong and the standards are high.

Legion units are not only based in France, but in South America - Guyane Francaise, Africa - Djibouti and the Indian Ocean - Mayotte. It wasn't too long ago that there was also a regiment stationed in French Polynesia. They train and deploy all over the world.

The first year is hard and you get your will-power tested to the nth degree - lots of bullshit until you prove that you got what it takes. Harder mentally than physically - the physical you build up.

In the Legion you have Infantry, Cavalry (Light Armour), Engineers and Paras. You will do Desert, Jungle, Mountain and Amphibious training. You have the opportunity to specialise not only in all the above fields and on the various weapon systems, but also as a Medic, Signaller, Clerk, Cook, Pioneer, Musician and many more. But first and foremost every Legionnaire is an infantryman who is prepared to assault the enemy and carry out his mission to the end. To do a "Camerone".

At selection you are tested for your ability and suitability. You may be selected for accelerated promotion and if you excel in your training and duties, you may make "Caporal" within two years and "Sergent" within five. A foreigner can even aspire to an Officer's Commission, but you have to climb the ranks and excel at every opportunity. The competition is fierce, but those officers are highly respected in the Legion. The Legion is what you make of it. The pay is not bad either (after the first year) and you're not taxed until you get your civilian status back (normally after five years). As you live on camp, your money tends to get mostly spent on booze, cigarettes and women. You can put a good bit away if you are that way inclined, but most good lads concentrate on having a good time. Forget about leave in your first year (especially if you're on Corsica with the Paras) but after that if you don't get at least a month off every year, then there's something wrong.

If after five years (the minimum contract) you decide to return and join your own or the British Army, then you will have a sound and exceptional grounding on which to base your future career.

Finally, the Legion looks after its own and honours its side of the contract if anything happens to you. The camaraderie remains forever, whether you just did five years or thirty-five.

I wish you well.

Legio Patria Nostra & More Majorum

Mitch

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Contrary to your first reply, the Legion is actively engaged in Afghanistan and has been for years. Legion Regiments form one of the two GTIAs (Battle Groups) the French have deployed in Kapisa Province and they are seeing combat -

Again, I don’t mean to disrespect the French military or the legendary Foreign Legion but I stand by my first point, you will likely see more action in the UK military. The UK has deployed 3x as many men who are fighting in a more active part of the theatre. You also have a higher chance of catching a piece of something. Kandahar is a whole other kettle of fish to peace enforcement operations in Chad.

 

[Marc 1]

Question - where do you get the idea that the british infantry are better than the RAR?

 

[Belesari]

OK i have to put in my 2 cents.

Marines :sniper everyone

 

[riksavage]

Question - where do you get the idea that the british infantry are better than the RAR?

No one has stated the Brit Infantry are better than the RAR. The only operational difference is the Brit's (A-Stan context) deploy regular infantry battalions in the more traditional role as part of a combined arms battle group on offensive operations, the Aus military doesn't, it uses it's regular infantry in the mentoring role only. Offensive preplanned ops are left to SF. The reason for this approach is casualty mitigation, regular infantry units fighting on offensive operations on a daily basis sufferer proportionality higher casualties than SF, who tend to be used for surgical strikes of a strategic nature backed-up by a myriad of v-expensive assets.

 

[Marc 1]

No one has stated the Brit Infantry are better than the RAR.

You are correct. I retract my question. The correct question in reply to this:

"that the British Army affords the best infantry training in the world"

Is why, OP, do you believe the UK infantry are better trained?

 

[riksavage]

You are correct. I retract my question. The correct question in reply to this:

"that the British Army affords the best infantry training in the world"

Is why, OP, do you believe the UK infantry are better trained?

The UK has better facilities - The Aussie don't as yet have a full battle-group computer training facility or real time combined arms areas on a par with Suffield, Canada or the array of urban ranges at Lydd and Hythe. But with the arrival of the M1A2's that may change.

I suppose the best people to ask would be those who have undertaken a long look exchange and experienced basic training both sides of the ocean. I suspect they undertake very similar basic all arms courses, with the exception of say the UK RM, where basic is 30 weeks long.

 

[Marc 1]

The UK has better facilities - The Aussie don't as yet have a full battle-group computer training facility or real time combined arms areas on a par with Suffield, Canada or the array of urban ranges at Lydd and Hythe. But with the arrival of the M1A2's that may change.

I suppose the best people to ask would be those who have undertaken a long look exchange and experienced basic training both sides of the ocean. I suspect they undertake very similar basic all arms courses, with the exception of say the UK RM, where basic is 30 weeks long.

That would be assuming that technology is the sole determinant on the quality of the soldier being created. At the level of basic digger training (not looking at combined arms warfare where really it is the more senior commanders really benefitting from the tech), I'd argue that the training provided by the Australian Army used to be every bit as good as that provided by at least the Canadians, Poms and Yanks we exercised and trained with.

That may have changed in the 16 or so years since I last wore a uniform (I believe Basic and IET training is shorter), but given that I have not heard widespread reports of Aussie soldiers failing badly on the battlfield I wouldn't think so.

 

[kittikhun]

Thank you for all your replies guys. I really appreciate it.

Also I’m pretty sure you'll end up with UK citizenship for what its worth.

Really? Isn't that only if you wanted to become an officer in the British Army? If not, is there a set quota as to how long you could serve in the British Army before having to become a UK citizen in order to continue serving? If I were to join the British Army, I would really like to attain the rank of sergeant or higher before transfering to the Australian Army.

At selection you are tested for your ability and suitability.

How could you be rejected from the Legion? What does the selection process consist of? I have read on a website made by an Australian Legionnaire's parents in which their son writes that-

The third and ultimate week in Augbane I spent as a "rouge": recruits selected for training as Legionnaires. Of the 400 or so potential recruits that pass through Augbane only 17-20 are selected for "rouge".

Why do only 20 out of 400 potential recruits make it to basic? Is it principally because of their level of French? Or could it be their interview? I'm really scared that I could be rejected because my reasons for joining the Legion, which is to face challanges, to lead an ascetic life, and to learn as much as I possible could, are not as strong as that of a destitute lad from Eastern Europe whose reasons for joining are financial and familial; who really needs to join.

Is why, OP, do you believe the UK infantry are better trained?

To be frank, I based this belief principally on the fact that the British rifleman trains longer than the Australian rifleman. As well, the British Army has some of the best NCOs in the world and participates in more exercises with NATO nations. They also have better facilites and experience as riksavage has mentioned. I, however, have the highest respect for the Aussie Digger and staunchly believe that they are led by some of the best infantry leaders in the world. In fact, if I find that my experience in interacting with ARA personel whilst I am in the Reserves to corrobate with my esteem for the Australian Army I will gladly stay in my country and become an officer if I am suited so.

 

[exsquaddie]

Question - where do you get the idea that the british infantry are better than the RAR?

Because THEY ARE I'm afraid no dis-respect but there is a whole lot more operational experience within the British army than the Aussies. Australian Army treats their soldiers way better however and I would have gladly served with them (tax free money on tours!). The RAR are simply not being used on offensive operations, YES they are taking casualties and have seen some action in the Ghan but their overiding purpose is as a mentoring force for the ANA. I realise the Australian SF are being used for strike ops but essentially they are performing tasks that both the normal British infantry and Marines train for and conduct regularly.

This of course is all politcal as the Aussie government wish to minimise the casualties and not alienate the Australian public too much (wish Blair, Brown and Cameron had done the same with us). It means that the Aus army is now effectively a two tier one with the regular infantry performiing peace support and mentoring role (as was the the same in Iraq) with the ASAS and Commandos conducting (albeit on a small scale) offensive ops.

Again dont get me wrong Aussie Diggers and Army are fantastic, brilliant tactics, drills, a pleasure to work with and a very capable force but in answer to the question British Infantry have had a whole life's worth of combat and operational experience many times over much more so than the Aus Army as a whole. In Answer to the original question if you want to be well looked after both financially and in terms of support then Join the Aussie Army in terms of operational experience then the British Army

 

[lopez]

Because THEY ARE I'm afraid no dis-respect but there is a whole lot more operational experience within the British army than the Aussies. Australian Army treats their soldiers way better however and I would have gladly served with them (tax free money on tours!). The RAR are simply not being used on offensive operations, YES they are taking casualties and have seen some action in the Ghan but their overiding purpose is as a mentoring force for the ANA. I realise the Australian SF are being used for strike ops but essentially they are performing tasks that both the normal British infantry and Marines train for and conduct regularly.

This of course is all politcal as the Aussie government wish to minimise the casualties and not alienate the Australian public too much (wish Blair, Brown and Cameron had done the same with us). It means that the Aus army is now effectively a two tier one with the regular infantry performiing peace support and mentoring role (as was the the same in Iraq) with the ASAS and Commandos conducting (albeit on a small scale) offensive ops.

Again dont get me wrong Aussie Diggers and Army are fantastic, brilliant tactics, drills, a pleasure to work with and a very capable force but in answer to the question British Infantry have had a whole life's worth of combat and operational experience many times over much more so than the Aus Army as a whole. In Answer to the original question if you want to be well looked after both financially and in terms of support then Join the Aussie Army in terms of operational experience then the British Army

although not as actve as other nations the australian role is alot more active than many people think

and more so as the troopps they mentor become more capable.

 

[Cutaway]

Does the Australian/New Zealand forces take Ex-Legionnaires?

 

[chunga1]

if you want to be the best you need to join the us marines...imo

 

[Abraham Gubler]

My name is Kittikhun,

Kittikhun clearly you’ve over planed your future. Especially since a lot of your suppositions are flawed and/or factually wrong. However the best part of your plan for military service is the first step. Join the Army Reserve while at university. You will learn more about actual service conditions, training and so on than you could ever hope to reading books and online. From this perspective you will be able to make a more informed decision about military service after university. If you join the reserve try to do so as a trainee officer at your local university regiment. This will expose you to a wider range of Corps options than joining a local unit so you will be better placed to decide what to do after uni. Depending on how well you perform in officer training you could also find an offer of a full time commission in a regular unit if you so desire.

 

[kittikhun]

Thanks for the reply guys. My first plan is actually to join the Reserves whilst at university and then enlist in the British Army however I need to be flexible in my plan since circumstances can change dictating me to divert from my normal plan (such as my desired job not being available in the Reserves due to the high numbers of recruitment for the ADF at this current moment) which is why I am considering joining the FFL and British Army if the situation dictates me so.

 

[riksavage]

The British Army/RN waiting list is pretty long these days and Commonwealth members have to get a work visa first to stay in the UK whilst you go through the processing (medical and tests). This could take up to six months. So make sure you have a job, or plan to travel around Europe for a spot of R&R in between tests.

I joined the reserves at 17.5 (wanted an income which would also give me a challenge) and stayed until the age of 23, ending up as Lt. That experience led me to a full time career in the disciplined services until my mid-thirties.

UK and Aus MOD have excellent websites, in the case of the UK this drills down to the Regimental level. Many offer three day open-day introduction courses without forcing you to commit. Para Reg are very helpful and provide advice over the phone. If you choose to walk in off the street to the nearest recruitment office beware, the local Sgt on duty will encourage you to join the same cap-badge. You may end up wanting to join the Rifles, but end up walking out signed to the Royal Lancers, they can be very persuasive!

The following is the link to the Para's, lots of material for you to down-load and review.

Soldier Recruiting - British Army Website

 

[kittikhun]

Cheers. However, the Paras and the role of a rifleman don't really interest me much since practically every soldier is a rifleman. If I were to enlist in the British Army, I plan to join the RE as a Carpenter and Joiner in order to pick up a skill by spending a few years with an Engineer Regiment. After I plan to train real hard in order to have a go at P Company and thus serve with 23rd Engineer Regiment if I pass.

 

[chrisdef]

Not to derail the thread but what are the legalities of fighting with the foreign legion here in Aus? I know geberally we and the French have the same enemies but wouldnt it technically be illegal to fight with the legion against a country/regime that Australia didnt classify as an enemy?