Boeing Unveils New Stealthy F-15

[SpudmanWP]

The average "then year" Unit Non-Recurring Flyaway price has been officially estimated at $83 million.

In FY2010 it was $133 mil. Feb 1st the FY2011 budget numbers will be released and we can get a better idea on how it's going.

btw, There is no way the F-15SE is going to be cheaper to maintain than the F-35, especially with two engines and the increase in maint crews it requires.

Here is a snippet of the Norway docs showing how the F-35 Plans to be cheaper to maintain.

 

[Ananda]

The system is a possible alternative for nations interested in the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The Silent Eagle is not as stealthy as the JSF, but it could provide flexibility for countries trying to stretch their defense dollars...

Boeing has cited a rough cost for Silent Eagle of $100 million per aircraft, although that would depend on factors such as co-development plans that have not yet been established.

Isn't those two statements from Boeing contradicts each other ??

The first one seems indicated F 15 SE will be more economical choices for countries that wants to have close to 5th gen aircraft (or you can called it the 4th++ gen)..

While in the same time it's costs more than F 35 (or at best only equals F 35 with options)..
Why would buy F 15 SE (an 4th++ gen) now if this cost that much (as much or more than a 5th gen) ?? Unless this for countries that do not have access on acquairing F 35...but then again will the countries that can't get F 35 will be allowed to get F 15 SE...Not likely though

Those who can't get F 35 won't go to F 15 SE..they will goes to SU 30/35 or the Euro's cannards options..
Thus it leaves the marketing gimmicks for F 15 SE as the other options for F 35..looking quite funny..

 

[OPSSG]

Isn't those two statements from Boeing contradicts each other ??

The first one seems indicated F 15 SE will be more economical choices for countries that wants to have close to 5th gen aircraft (or you can called it the 4th++ gen)..

While in the same time it's costs more than F 35 (or at best only equals F 35 with options)..
Why would buy F 15 SE (an 4th++ gen) now if this cost that much (as much or more than a 5th gen) ?? Unless this for countries that do not have access on acquairing F 35...but then again will the countries that can't get F 35 will be allowed to get F 15 SE...Not likely though

Those who can't get F 35 won't go to F 15 SE..they will goes to SU 30/35 or the Euro's cannards options..
Thus it leaves the marketing gimmicks for F 15 SE as the other options for F 35..looking quite funny..

Ananda, in my mind, Singapore is a fairly cost conscious country in terms of new aircraft acquisition and even we are taking a closer look at the value proposition (viz a viz capability) provided by the F-15SE (I note that we were once offered Hornets but we continued with our orders for more Vipers instead at that time). And I suspect we may be interested in at least a 2nd squadron of Strike Eagles. One of the issues is sustainability of our Strike Eagles way beyond the 2035 time frame (beyond just acquisition and operating costs)...

We have two squadrons of F-5s to retire in early this decade and it is possible that we may consider the F-15SE at this point while waiting for our turn to place our first F-35A orders as one of two Security Co-operation Participants (SCP). I'm waiting for the up coming Singapore Air Show in Feb 2010 for more news from the various companies. In this case, Boeing is trying to keep their Strike Eagle production line open.... before the orders dry up.

Given that we are in a recession, local political considerations may preclude significant acquisition announcements from our government, though I'm sure Boeing will be doing their best to sweeten the pot.

 

[Ananda]

Ananda, in my mind, Singapore is a fairly cost conscious country in terms of new aircraft acquisition and even we are taking a closer look at the value proposition (viz a viz capability) provided by the F-15SE (I note that we were once offered Hornets but we continued with our orders for more Vipers instead at that time). And I suspect we may be interested in at least a 2nd squadron of Strike Eagles. One of the issues is sustainable of our Strike Eagles way beyond the 2035 time frame (beyond just acquisition and operating costs)...

We have two squadrons of F-5s to retire in early this decade and it is possible that we may consider the F-15SE at this point while waiting for our turn to place our first F-35A orders as one of two Security Co-operation Participants (SCP). I'm waiting for the up coming Singapore Air Show in Feb 2010 for more news from the various companies. In this case, Boeing is trying to keep their Strike Eagle production line open.... before the orders dry up.

OPSSG, I agree that Singapore's acquistions seems factor in long term costs on acquisitions. Which in turn in my oppinion the 2nd sq of F 15 Strike Eagles will be on the way.

However for the Silent Eagles (or Stealth Eagles that some people in other forum put it)..that's (long term cost structures) questions that i'm pondering..
Realistically Boeing aimed to the current F 15 users as possible users..South Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Singapore clearly as Target Market..However in my oppinions those countries also the same countries that can get access to F 35..

With the rising costs for acquistions and maintanances for the 4th++ and 5th gens..and the kind of costs that Boeing now floundering for F 15 SE..it's economics to have F 35 and F 15 SE at the same time ??
And if somehow a possible customers country found that they can see a compatibility on having both F 35 and F 15 SE...how many will be willing to do that ??

What I'm getting at..with the kind of prices..and limited target market (that willing and allowed to have access for F 15 SE and facing same target market with F 35)..the populations of F 15 SE will be limited at best..that any country that wants to acquired them will have to get on significant numbers and perhaps build their own limited manufacturing facilities for some parts that's not simmilar with existing F 15.

I don't know..I like F 15 SE, but with that kind of costs wich now seems not much diiferent than F 35 to begin with..the long term costs structures for F 15 SE will be diificult to compete with F 35.
Wich in turn will put questions on the decisions makers on the target countries..why bother with F 15 SE, if we can get F 35 ?? Since (at leats the pitcures now) the F 15 SE does not provide the economics options as complement or even substitute for F 35.

 

[Clampipe]

In my opinion, neither the F-15SE or the F-35 will be affordable in numbers to "lesser" military nations. $100 million a piece is actually less than several F-15 export variants, so the F-15SE may just in price once better evaluations are done.

 

[SpudmanWP]

IF you throw out numbers like "$100 million a piece", you need to qualify that with a qualifier like "Recurring Flyaway Cost", "Complete Flyaway", "Weapons System Cost", "Program Acquisition Cost", etc

 

[SGMilitary]

IF you throw out numbers like "$100 million a piece", you need to qualify that with a qualifier like "Recurring Flyaway Cost", "Complete Flyaway", "Weapons System Cost", "Program Acquisition Cost", etc

What about the cost of an F-15SG? If I recalled, it is around S$80-100 million per aircraft?

I do believe that the RSAF will procure additional 24 more F-15SG with an option of a further 12. Please read how I derive the numbers.

Taking into consideration that the F-15SG programme is similar to the F-16, the RSAF will likely have 12 F-15SG based in US to support long term training. As such, preferably 48 F-15SG based in Singapore with 12 in US. Technically, the RSAF have to replace the 60 A4SU that are kept in storage since it's retirement. Looking at the ongoing regional air power trend in Southeast Asia, Australia and Northeast Asia, the RSAF need to continuously enhance her capability to project her air power beyond Singapore and this region.

As mentioned in an interview with Aviation Week back in 2006 or 2008, (please correct me if I'm wrong), the RSAF is looking at 60 F-15 with the upper limit being 80 aircraft, depending on the outcome of JSF.

Cheers!

 

[Clampipe]

IF you throw out numbers like "$100 million a piece", you need to qualify that with a qualifier like "Recurring Flyaway Cost", "Complete Flyaway", "Weapons System Cost", "Program Acquisition Cost", etc

The number was for the F-15K. I believe it would be "complete flyaway" cost from a batch of 21 jets.

Either way, far too high for a 4+ gen fighter!

 

[fretburner]

Boeing applies to export F-15SE to South Korea

So I guess this program is moving forward? It would be interesting if South Korea would partner with Boeing on the development of this aircraft. Maybe this is partly a reaction to the North's "provocations"? Maybe Japan and Singapore will follow suit?

 

[moahunter]

In my opinion, neither the F-15SE or the F-35 will be affordable in numbers to "lesser" military nations. $100 million a piece is actually less than several F-15 export variants, so the F-15SE may just in price once better evaluations are done.

Maybe not cheaper, but perhaps the F-15SE might be more capable and suitable for some?

The F15 is a proven air superiority fighter that just got better. We don't know whether the F35, which is a multi-role fighter, will be able to match that long range air superiority. The dual engines is also relevant in some environments, traditionally they have been more reliable when distances matter (part of the reason Canada for example, chose the F18 over the F16). That might be changing, but it depends how much trust you have in future technology ahead of what is proven to work very well.

 

[Sarkozy]

on the last paris airshow the people from boeing told us that their new "stealthy" F-15 was still less stealthy then the superhornet...

 

[Go229]

Key letter is StealthY...

 

[fretburner]

Boeing Anticipates Approval To Export F-15 Silent Eagle

It would be really nice to see this getting approved. I'd like to see what Boeing can do more to this great fighter.

 

[OPSSG]

Boeing Anticipates Approval To Export F-15 Silent Eagle

It would be really nice to see this getting approved. I'd like to see what Boeing can do more to this great fighter.

They are. Boeing's Silent Eagle flight demonstrator aircraft F-15E1 completed a 80-minute first flight on July 8. During the flight, F-15E1 opened and closed its left-side Conformal Weapons Bay, which contained an AIM-120 Instrumented Test Vehicle (ITV) missile but the ITV was not launched. In the next couple of weeks, they will ferry F-15E1 to the test range and launch an AIM-120 (link to Boeing's Media Release).

 

[Haavarla]

Good news.
Do this F-15E1 aircraft demonstrator feature the canted stabs configuration?
If not, when will we see it?





Thanks

 

[OPSSG]

Do this F-15E1 aircraft demonstrator feature the canted stabs configuration?

No, it does not. I believe that Boeing is only testing the conformal weapons bay in this case.

If not, when will we see it?

No idea.

 

[fretburner]

And they got their license! Boeing scores export license

I hope somebody actually buys this aircraft. They seem to be progressing well... next up is the missile launch!

I hope they have a 2nd aircraft with the canted tails already...

 

[GI-Gizmo]

F-15SE Silent Eagle... USAF 21st Century...

The F-15SE Silent Eagle should be a success given the expected warplane market into the next 5 to 15 years. Since it is based on a reliable, combat proven and respected airframe which currently holds the best air to air combat kill ratio in history it should have limited teething problems and should expect a warm welcome from potential customers. The F-15SE should be very capable multirole fighter, heavy yet agile, powerful engines, low RCS, modern sensors and avionics including AESA radar and IRST and most important well trained pilots at the controls. The possible list of buyers might include Israel, Japan, South Korea, Saudi Arabia and Singapore. The USAF will probably equip some squadrons with them as well. In the near future the legacy aircraft will be wearing out, F-22 units will be sparse and overworked and F-35s will be asked to fill almost every role imaginable. The need for a heavy and powerful, dual engine, multirole fighter will be seen and the F-15SE will definently be ready. Air to air combat, hauling guided bombs, electronic warfare, reconnaissance and every other role could be performed by the Silent Eagle. Estimated price per aircraft is $100 Million, it is a cost effective plane given what it is capable of and the definite need for it in the USAF inventory in the near future.

 

[fretburner]

It is also very interesting because just recently, Israel said they're not so sure if they really need the F-35 and hinted on either a few F-35s or no F-35s at all, together with their F-15s and F-16s and UAVs. This might just be what they will need, and they can focus on stealthy UAVs.

 

[Bonza]

The F-15SE Silent Eagle should be a success given the expected warplane market into the next 5 to 15 years. Since it is based on a reliable, combat proven and respected airframe which currently holds the best air to air combat kill ratio in history it should have limited teething problems and should expect a warm welcome from potential customers. The F-15SE should be very capable multirole fighter, heavy yet agile, powerful engines, low RCS, modern sensors and avionics including AESA radar and IRST and most important well trained pilots at the controls. The possible list of buyers might include Israel, Japan, South Korea, Saudi Arabia and Singapore. The USAF will probably equip some squadrons with them as well. In the near future the legacy aircraft will be wearing out, F-22 units will be sparse and overworked and F-35s will be asked to fill almost every role imaginable. The need for a heavy and powerful, dual engine, multirole fighter will be seen and the F-15SE will definently be ready. Air to air combat, hauling guided bombs, electronic warfare, reconnaissance and every other role could be performed by the Silent Eagle. Estimated price per aircraft is $100 Million, it is a cost effective plane given what it is capable of and the definite need for it in the USAF inventory in the near future.

I dunno mate, you really think the USAF is going to spend that sort of money on an aircraft that's less capable than the F-35 they've got coming down the pipeline? I think the Silent Eagle could turn out to be a great aircraft, but considering how much emphasis has been placed on the F-35 program and their present fleet of still very capable legacy platforms I don't know how keen they'll be to spend up on what would effectively be an interim aircraft in which they've expressed no interest... I would think they'd have to be in dire straits in terms of remaining flight hours on legacy aircraft before they'd go for it.

It wouldn't surprise me if some of the nations you mentioned opt for the Super Hornet actually. i know Boeing has expressed a willingness to co-develop a variant for the Japanese. Without wanting to get into aircraft comparisons, the fact that the Super is already developed and deployed in large numbers, and affords some very similar capabilities to the SE at a significantly cheaper price, would make it a serious contender for upcoming contracts. But then I guess both aircraft are made by Boeing and I'm sure if there's a chance of selling the more expensive aircraft they'll give it a go.