Applying for ADF, need some info for Fire-Fighter specialist testing !

SASWanabe

Member
In any case have a look at the position you're interested in on the website I've linked and that should give you more specific information. :)
The path i have been hoping to take in the army is: enlist as rifleman, get a couple deployments under my belt. apply for sniper training (hopefuly get accepted) then once i have a couple years expirence as a sniper apply for SAS Selection.(Dream senario)

The main thing im worried about is the sniper training. Im good with numbers just not in the way my school wants me to be.

I know that my expectations of myself are very high but this senario will fulfil everything i could ever want
 
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Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hmm. Well, I would think learning the numbers side of sniping would be part and parcel of the training you would receive. Don't know how worried they'd be about mathematical grades and so forth - I'm not sure myself, but there's quite a few ex-Australian army blokes on these boards, so hopefully someone will chime in and be able to tell you some more specifics.
 

SASWanabe

Member
Thankyou for all the help im grateful for the insight, if anyone else has anything else to add i would appreciate it aswel
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
The path i have been hoping to take in the army is: enlist as rifleman, get a couple deployments under my belt. apply for sniper training (hopefuly get accepted) then once i have a couple years expirence as a sniper apply for SAS Selection.(Dream senario)

The main thing im worried about is the sniper training. Im good with numbers just not in the way my school wants me to be.

I know that my expectations of myself are very high but this senario will fulfil everything i could ever want
Yep, join the infantry as a full time soldier, as that is the only way, besides special forces, that you can become sniper trained.

But before you can "apply" for sniper training, you have to be selected to perform duties in the battalion reconaissance platoon. Only the best digs get the opportunity to work in the recon platoon and from there you have to demonstrate an outstanding level of fieldcraft and overall "soldiering" to be chosen as a sniper.

Most battalions in the army don't even maintain recon platoons for manning and other reasons, let alone sniper cells, so the only way to guarantee that you can even have the chance to work as a sniper is to join the regular army as a full time soldier.

If selected to undertake the sniper course, you will undergo a very severe course at the School of Infantry. If successful, you will be qualified to undertake the role of a "no 2" or observer. Snipers work in pairs with an observer and a "shooter". You will have to do your time as an observer before you get the chance to be a sniper team leader and even then, you will be rotated back through the rifle companies at regular intervals, for career development purposes. With the Infantry 2012 changes coming though, I expect that if you were a qualified sniper observer, rotated back into a rifle company, you would probably be tasked as a marksmen, with the new marksmen rifle capability being introduced, so it won't be as bad as it seems, but there's no getting around it. At the present time, recon and sniper qualified soldiers, get rotated through the rifle companies after a while. Few to none get the chance to stay in either occupation for a long time.

Whatever education you need to join Army will be sufficient to at least be chosen for a sniper position, but proficiency as a rifleman is mainly what will get you chosen. Stephen Hawking would no doubt have the math to perform the role, but he might not pass the physical side of it...

There are other components to it as well, but the first steps to getting to be a sniper for you are:m

1. Pass year 12 as well as you can. Get the best marks you can manage and look towards joining army on a full time basis.

2. Join the army with the aim in mind of joining the infantry. There are no other sniper positions within Army, besides special forces and you won't be going there for many years yet, no matter what you do. Combat engineers and RAAF have some sniper like capability, but it is directed at EOD (explosive ordance disposal), not the traditional "sniper" capability. Air Defence Guards also have marksmen capability, but again, they are not "sniper" trained, only ADgie trained and equipped with a more accurate rifle. They don't undertake sniper training nor do they employ observers or other sniper tactics.

3. Once joined the Army, work heavily on fieldcraft and becoming the best possible rifleman. There are a lot of politics involved in Army and it might be the case that you never get the chance to undertake sniper training anyway, but your best chance is to become the most switched on dig that you can be and express interest in the field. In reality, that is the best you can do at the present time.

Good luck.

AD.
 

SASWanabe

Member
i was kinda getting mixed signals about what you just said... most of it makes sense but are you telling me you think i should enlist as a "Soldier" or "Rifleman"?
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
i was kinda getting mixed signals about what you just said... most of it makes sense but are you telling me you think i should enlist as a "Soldier" or "Rifleman"?
A soldier is anyone in the Army who is not an officer or a Non-Commissioned officer. Doesn't matter what corps you are in (infantry, armour, transport etc) you are a soldier.

A rifleman is the basic position within the infantry Corps. If you join Army as a full time soldier and are selected for the infantry Corps, you will be trained as a rifleman and will be posted to one of the regular infantry battalions (1, 2 ,3, 5, 6, 7 or 8/9 RAR).

Cheers

AD
 

choppercrazy

New Member
sight an issue for Aus Army?

hi

im thinking of applying for the australian army and was wondering if having to wear glasses
(im short sighted) would be a problem?

any insight given would be a great help

thanks
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
hi

im thinking of applying for the australian army and was wondering if having to wear glasses
(im short sighted) would be a problem?

any insight given would be a great help

thanks
You do need to pass an eye exam. Glasses don't necessarily hinder you from entering Army, plenty of blokes have them, but you need a certain degree of visual acuity without them

Defence Recruiting is the best place to check on the exact visual requirements and you can check with an optometrist whether or not you meet that standard.

Ph: 13 19 01, within Australia.

Cheers,

AD.
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
You do need to pass an eye exam. Glasses don't necessarily hinder you from entering Army, plenty of blokes have them, but you need a certain degree of visual acuity without them

Defence Recruiting is the best place to check on the exact visual requirements and you can check with an optometrist whether or not you meet that standard.

Ph: 13 19 01, within Australia.

Cheers,

AD.
Alternatively, if the ADF rejects choppercrazy, he can try to emigrate to Singapore to join our army, as a regular (rather than as a conscript) but we require our soldiers to eventually become our citizens - about 6 to 8% of each cohort intake for our army are permanent residents (there are Australian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Indian and Japanese origin soldiers, just to name of few, in the SAF). We are more accommodating on glasses in our army - since a lot of people are short sighted in Singapore. :D
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
Alternatively, if the ADF rejects choppercrazy, he can try to emigrate to Singapore to join our army, as a regular (rather than as a conscript) but we require our soldiers to eventually become our citizens - about 6 to 8% of each cohort intake for our army are permanent residents (there are Australian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Indian and Japanese origin soldiers, just to name of few, in the SAF). We are more accommodating on glasses in our army - since a lot of people are short sighted in Singapore. :D
That'd be kind of cool actually. I consider living in Singapore for a couple of years, though I'd probably have to change my handle to something like Sing Dig, if that wasn't considered disrespectful? :D

With the Australian Army (and ADF in general) though, I think they have a serious issue with failing to recruit persons with relatively minor health problems. The eyesight/glasses issue is one. Asthma is another.

There are an enormous number of positions within ADF that are basically office jobs, with little to no chance whatsoever that these persons will be required to deploy on operations. Pay clerks, medical staff, RAEME mechanics and engineers, training schools, language schools etc. All these enablers of capability are just as important as the "sharp end" but for some reason have the same health standards required and yet are not ever expected to be deployed on operations in any theatre.

A lot of positions really are little more than public service positions and there are literally no health requirements at all for a public service position within Australia, in the overwhelming majority of cases. As long as you are physically able to perform your assigned tasks, whether it be in an Army office or a public service office, you should be considered, IMHO.

Not necessarily considered for a deployment role, but I think ADF loses access to a large number of people who can perform effectively in certain roles, without necessarily meeting the standards that might be required for an operational unit.
 

lopez

Member
if you enlist as a soldier you can not go into the infantry...
that was my understanding when reading the site.
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
if you enlist as a soldier you can not go into the infantry...
that was my understanding when reading the site.
Rubbish. I've already explained below. A soldier is a soldier, regardless of the Corps he joins. A soldier is someone who is ranked at private or equivalent. Promoted to Lance-Corporal or Lance Bombadier, depending on Corps all the way up to Sergeant (or Staff Sergeant ) and you become a Non-Commissioned officer. Promoted beyond Sgt (or Staff Sgt) and you become a Warrant Officer.

Join as a Second Lieutenant and promoted above and you are a Commissioned Officer.

A soldier is the lowest ranked person in the Army. Whether you are a Private, Trooper, Gunner, Signaller, Musician, Sapper, Craftsmen etc, is dependant upon your Corps, but each and every one of these IS a soldier.

When you join Army you are a recruit. When you complete basic training you will join a particular Corps. If you join Infantry you will go to the School of Infantry or a particular battalion and conduct your initial employment training. When you complete this, you will achieve the rank of private. A soldier is the term for your position or status within Army, it is not your rank nor even your Corps.

I hope this makes it clearer. To me it's as plain as day...
 

lopez

Member
by Aussie digger
Rubbish. I've already explained below. A soldier is a soldier, regardless of the Corps he joins. A soldier is someone who is ranked at private or equivalent. Promoted to Lance-Corporal or Lance Bombadier, depending on Corps all the way up to Sergeant (or Staff Sergeant ) and you become a Non-Commissioned officer. Promoted beyond Sgt (or Staff Sgt) and you become a Warrant Officer.

Join as a Second Lieutenant and promoted above and you are a Commissioned Officer.

A soldier is the lowest ranked person in the Army. Whether you are a Private, Trooper, Gunner, Signaller, Musician, Sapper, Craftsmen etc, is dependant upon your Corps, but each and every one of these IS a soldier.

When you join Army you are a recruit. When you complete basic training you will join a particular Corps. If you join Infantry you will go to the School of Infantry or a particular battalion and conduct your initial employment training. When you complete this, you will achieve the rank of private. A soldier is the term for your position or status within Army, it is not your rank nor even your Corps.

I hope this makes it clearer. To me it's as plain as day...
sorry AD ...
this v v v confused me.




from Soldier | Defence Jobs
Job Details
Other Ranks (Non Technical)

You can enlist into the Army now as a soldier and have the flexibility to later make a decision on your future career role.

This method of entry is designed for those who want to join the Army now but who need more time to decide which employment path they wish to follow in their Army career.

During your Recruit Training at Kapooka, near Wagga Wagga NSW, you will be given time to understand the different Army jobs, what they do and which one might interest you.

By the time you have completed your Recruit Training, you will have made an informed decision on what career path you wish to follow in the Army and be ready to undertake the employment training necessary to qualify you in this career.

Note: Rifleman is not an available option.



i equated riflemen with the infantry(possibly incorrectly). obviously riflemen are soldiers but from an employment point of view you can not become an infantryman if you enlist as a 'soldier' as an employment option...
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
sorry AD ...
this v v v confused me.




from Soldier | Defence Jobs





i equated riflemen with the infantry(possibly incorrectly). obviously riflemen are soldiers but from an employment point of view you can not become an infantryman if you enlist as a 'soldier' as an employment option...
Nope. Wrong again mate... :rolleyes:

Being a "soldier" has nothing to do with which Corps you are posted to nor which job you are trained for. Again, everyone who joins Army (apart from those attending the Royal Military College Duntroon or Australian Defence Force Academy - they are joining to become officers), is enlisting as a soldier. You are then trained to take a particular position within a particular Corps.

So, to make it simple and discounting officers, EVERYONE who joins Army enlists as a soldier and are subsequently trained for a particular job within army. That might be as rifleman or as a signaller or as an artillery gun number or whatever. Whichever job you are trained for doesn't matter. You are a soldier. A soldier trained as a rifleman in the infantry Corps is only different from a soldier trained as a gun number for the Artillery Corps by the differences in their respective training. From an organisational view, they are at the exact same level. ALL of them are soldiers.

A rifleman is the basic job within the infantry Corps. It is a job. It is not a rank, title or an appointment. A rifleman position within the Army carries the qualification of ECN-343 (unless it has changed). Being ECN-343 qualified, means you are a soldier who is qualified to perform the job of rifleman. An artillery gun number has their own qualification number, though I don't know what that is. It means however, if they are qualified, that they are a soldier who is qualified to perform the job of a gun number.

When you pass your basic training and your initial employment training you are also given a rank. The basic rank is Private, however particular Corps also have different names. Artillery's basic rank is Gunner. A Gunner is simply the Artillery equivalent of a Private. Other Corps have different names for the rank of Private, which I alluded to earlier...

What that article is saying is that you can join Army WITHOUT picking a particular Corps and decide later, based upon the options available to you and what you might like to do. You are joining as a soldier however and whatever corps you end up joining will train you for a particular job, but you will remain a soldier until promoted to Lance-Corporal or Bombadier.

At that point you will no longer be a soldier, but a Non-Commissioned officer. You may still be a rifleman however.

Does this help? I can't think how to make this any simpler...
 

lopez

Member
OK i understood that,but not to that detail.

what i was mainly getting at(but failed to due to my confusion over terminology) was that if you had your heart set on becoming a rifleman don't enlist as a "soldier" as described by the defence jobs website.

we appear to have been discussing to different things,largely due to my lack of clarity.
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
OK i understood that,but not to that detail.

what i was mainly getting at(but failed to due to my confusion over terminology) was that if you had your heart set on becoming a rifleman don't enlist as a "soldier" as described by the defence jobs website.

we appear to have been discussing to different things,largely due to my lack of clarity.
That's okay mate. Putting it as plainly as I can - joining as a soldier is what EVERYONE does, apart from those who join Army as an officer.

Your particular job in the Army has nothing to do with your appointment as a soldier, but will have a title of it's own like any job description.

Cheers

AD
 
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