T-90 in Comparison to Western Armour

[Belesari]

I read a few days ago there are thousands of modern tanks right out of the factory just out rotting in the weather.

Its kinda foolish to do that me thinks

 

[Feanor]

They're old T-72B mods, that were being moved to a storage base. I.e. the tanks (as far as I know) were pulled from active duty already.

 

[Feanor]

Это не новые танки. Большинство из них использовалось в армии в течение 10-15 лет"

 ÏÓðÂÎ óòâåðæäàþò, ÷òî íå áðîñàëè òàíêè â ëåñó

двух сотен танков Т-80 и Т-72

Òàíêè â ëåñó ñòîÿëè îáîñíîâàííî- ïðîêóðàòóðà » Totalweek.ru - âñå íîâîñòè çà íåäåëþ

танки Т-72 и Т-80

Военные Ñрочно вывозÑÑ‚ деÑÑтки "забытых" танков из леÑа | Видео | Лента новоÑÑ‚¹ "РИРÐовоÑти"

T-72s were not purchased by Russian Army since 1994, and most T-72 tanks are 80s and late 70s vintage. The same goes for T-80. They were certainly not new.

 

[Feanor]

A modernization program for the T-90 is in place, that will remove the ammunition storage from the turret of the tank. I don't have any specific information, but apparently the program is far along, and is set to finish retro-fitting in service units by the end of this year.

ÐœÐ¾Ð´ÐµÑ€Ð½Ð¸Ð·Ð°Ñ†Ð¸Ñ Ñ‚Ð°Ð½ÐºÐ¾Ð² Т-90 может быть завершена до конца года | Оборона и безопаÑноÑÑ‚ÑŒ | Лента новоÑÑ‚Ð "РИРÐовоÑти"

It also include armor upgrades and new NVGs.

If anyone knows anything, info would be appreciated.

 

[eckherl]

A modernization program for the T-90 is in place, that will remove the ammunition storage from the turret of the tank. I don't have any specific information, but apparently the program is far along, and is set to finish retro-fitting in service units by the end of this year.

ÐœÐ¾Ð´ÐµÑ€Ð½Ð¸Ð·Ð°Ñ†Ð¸Ñ Ñ‚Ð°Ð½ÐºÐ¾Ð² Т-90 может быть завершена до конца года | Оборона и безопаÑноÑÑ‚ÑŒ | Лента новоÑтей "Ð*ИРÐовоÑти"

It also include armor upgrades and new NVGs.

If anyone knows anything, info would be appreciated.

Look for Relikt armor and a turret bustle system to be put in place.

 

[Feanor]

I see. And the NVGs? Retrofitted Catherines to the T-90 baseline models? Or something new for all the models?

Also the bustle system, are we talking about a compartment inside the existing turret design with blow-out panels, or a whole new compartment behind the turret?

 

[Waylander]

There is not enough space in the existing turret so I expect to see a totally new rear part of the turret.
Might be interesting for the weight distribution as the T-90 is originally not designed to carry that much weight at the back.

 

[eckherl]

@Waylander and Feanor,

Look for a detachable box type set up, Russians claim it is more easier to replace the whole ammunition compartment versus blow out panels and projectile holding brackets, whole compartment can be replaced by battalion or company facilities/logistical support.

Last I knew they were still building under license thermals from France, these were slated for T-90 upgrades.

 

[Feanor]

But the T-90A originally came with French thermals did it not? Or did not all units receive them?

Lenta.ru reported the same thing, with the added factoid that this year 261 tanks are planned for purchase.

Lenta.ru: Îðóæèå: Ìîäåðíèçàöèÿ Ò-90 çàâåðøèòñÿ â 2010 ãîäó

So if it's a detachable box, will it be connected to the auto-loader, or will the crew have to move ammo from that compartment into the tank, and then put it in the auto-loader? Also do you think it will compromise the rear armor of the turret itself? Since some sort of opening will be needed to bring the ammo into the turret... finally if this is a detachable box then the upgraded tanks should be visually different. Do you have any pics by any chance?

 

[eckherl]

But the T-90A originally came with French thermals did it not? Or did not all units receive them?

Lenta.ru reported the same thing, with the added factoid that this year 261 tanks are planned for purchase.

Lenta.ru: Îðóæèå: Ìîäåðíèçàöèÿ Ò-90 çàâåðøèòñÿ â 2010 ãîäó

So if it's a detachable box, will it be connected to the auto-loader, or will the crew have to move ammo from that compartment into the tank, and then put it in the auto-loader? Also do you think it will compromise the rear armor of the turret itself? Since some sort of opening will be needed to bring the ammo into the turret... finally if this is a detachable box then the upgraded tanks should be visually different. Do you have any pics by any chance?

Fielding of the French Thermals have been rather slow due to cost and initial set up. Look for a auto loader designed within the same operating principle as what is found on Leclerc, Type 90 and K2. I think that the armor protection value in the rear portion of the turret will be even better, not only do you have the armor but also a bustle rack compartment full of projectiles, blow out panels are also used to help assist in venting explosions away from the rear of the turret and crew compartment in the event that the projectile access door is open or closed.

 

[eckherl]

This should give you a good indication on how the set up will be, also not the ERA along the sides of the box. MG set up may be different also, just depends on which upgraded MG version they decide to go with.

 

[Feanor]

Very interesting. Thanks for the illustration. I'll be hunting for photos of the upgraded models. If you find any please do post on here.

 

[Feanor]

So it looks like the T-90 modernization is still under development (where as the article implied it was being implemented in the armed forces this year). The French thermals license production only starts this summer.

ÀÐÌÑ-ÒÀÑÑ

While local maintenance has been performed since october 2008. I wonder if this is directly because of the alleged Object 195 cancellation.

EDIT: More details on the T-90 mod. Apparently it will feature a 3-channel commanders sight. The new T-90 is already being called the T-90M, and is supposedly the Object 188M put into serial production. It's gun will be the 2A82, and will feature an auto-loader that allows longer rounds.

http://vpk-news.ru/hot/defense/ustareli-ne-rodivshis

Some photos I found on a Russian forum, below.

 

[IronsightSniper]

Untrue. The T-90S has Kontakt-V ERA that useless against tandem warheads. Relikt kit makes the tank defended against the most advanced tandem ATGMs. Thus, this ERA is more advanced that on T-90S.

Apart the T-80 modernisation, the same ERA and FCS kits are used for T-72 modernisation under the name 'Rogatka'. Some 180 T-80 and T-72 are modernised this year:

I read on a Russian Tank enthusiast's site, that Kontakt-5 has a 15mm steel plate which is supposed to detonate the precursor charge of a tandem warhead, which would make it significantly less effective.

 

[kay_man]

I read on a Russian Tank enthusiast's site, that Kontakt-5 has a 15mm steel plate which is supposed to detonate the precursor charge of a tandem warhead, which would make it significantly less effective.

It says in wikipedia and in jane's that T-72 with Kontakt -5 successfully stopped a KE (DU round ) from the 120mm gun of an abrams.
I think that is more than enough protection.

 

[Waylander]

And where would that have occured? There were no battles where M1s faced T-72Bs with Kontakt-5 ERA.
During a test for which named models were aquired?

 

[gf0012-aust]

It says in ....... jane's that T-72 with Kontakt -5 successfully stopped a KE (DU round ) from the 120mm gun of an abrams.

I think that is more than enough protection.

I've got access to all Janes publications, books and weekly articles for my work. can you please provide a citation for the Janes reference.

failing that, if you can provide me with any details I will follow up with the Janes Defence Liaison contact and get him to track it down.

as we have access to all historical material I should be able to view it - we also see the unpublished Janes data (ie its not released to the general public and is restricted to military/certified govt agencies)

 

[Bonza]

The Jane's reference is made in this wikipedia article:

Kontakt-5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The quote is attributed to Leland Ness, however it merely mentions that he is a Jane's correspondent, it doesn't state that the information was found in Jane's. However upon looking at the sole external source (appears to be some kind of Indian Army enthusiast's page) given for the wikipedia article I came upon this reference, maybe this would help GF:

Jane's International Defence Review 7/1997, pg. 15

I find the wording (descriptions of the armour making tanks "immune" to M829 DU) somewhat unusual, so I'd be curious to hear what's actually in Jane's as opposed to what is referenced on wikipedia and the external "source".

 

[gf0012-aust]

The Jane's reference is made in this wikipedia article:

Kontakt-5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

except that I'm unaware of any Kontakt 5 traps against an M1 shoot. I've had this come up before in other forums and chased it down before to no avail. in fact the black hats I contacted are pretty adamant that no such shoot has been verified

The quote is attributed to Leland Ness, however it merely mentions that he is a Jane's correspondent, it doesn't state that the information was found in Jane's. However upon looking at the sole external source (appears to be some kind of Indian Army enthusiast's page) given for the wikipedia article I came upon this reference, maybe this would help GF:

Jane's International Defence Review 7/1997, pg. 15

I find the wording (descriptions of the armour making tanks "immune" to M829 DU) somewhat unusual, so I'd be curious to hear what's actually in Jane's as opposed to what is referenced on wikipedia and the external "source".

Give me a couple of days to get hold of Janes LO and I'll trawl through Janes at work (we have it all online)

Leland Ness no longer works for Janes - he left the company in 1990

 

[Bonza]

except that I'm unaware of any Kontakt 5 traps against an M1 shoot. I've had this come up before in other forums and chased it down before to no avail. in fact the black hats I contacted are pretty adamant that no such shoot has been verified

Wouldn't surprise me at all, considering the sources thus far have been a wiki article and a private website. And it's especially odd that it refers to Ness' name in a '97 article if he left the company in 1990. I'd be interested to hear the real story though!

Give me a couple of days to get hold of Janes LO and I'll trawl through Janes at work (we have it all online)

What I wouldn't give for a poke through those archives... cheers mate.