Pakistan Army News and Discussions

ghanz

New Member
There is a lot of buzz in Pakistani and western media about Pak military refusing to launch new operations against Taliban and al-qaeda for 6-12 months. The military claims that Pakistani military is overstretched and would not be launching any new operation. Is this the true reason behind not launching any new operation or Pakistani military using this to get their hands on new equipment from US?
BBC News - Pakistan 'wants unarmed drones'
 

Rish

New Member
There is a lot of buzz in Pakistani and western media about Pak military refusing to launch new operations against Taliban and al-qaeda for 6-12 months. The military claims that Pakistani military is overstretched and would not be launching any new operation. Is this the true reason behind not launching any new operation or Pakistani military using this to get their hands on new equipment from US?
BBC News - Pakistan 'wants unarmed drones'
IMHO i think that this news report is partly true. In terms of capability the pakistani military is only deploying 1/9~1/10 of their total force. Most of the other forces are in reserve or on the indian border. if they wanted they could definitely send out more men and equipment. it has a lot to do with pressuring the US into giving up more technology, but more importantly on the state of the pakistani economy. the push against the terrorists is putting a huge strain on the economy and they're struggling to make payments at the moment. i think the US knows all of this and more and will play hard ball. you also have to factor in india's response. any where pakistan goes to buy sophisticated weapons india will try and prevent its' purchase. currently india has not really said anything because the drones aren't advanced and aren't considered a legitimate threat to india. hope that explains things and correct me if im wrong.
 

dragonfire

New Member
There are conflicting reports in the Pakistani media today about the handing over of M109A5 Howitzers to the Pakistan Army by the United States. Some outlets are reporting 48 pieces handed over, others claim 115. Can anyone verify what the actual number is and if that completes the order or there remains another batch or so to be transferred?

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

DAWN.COM | National | Pakistan Army gets US Howitzer guns
I also read that apart from the guns some boats were also recieved by Pakistan - any details available ?

Thanks in advance
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
There are conflicting reports in the Pakistani media today about the handing over of M109A5 Howitzers to the Pakistan Army by the United States. Some outlets are reporting 48 pieces handed over, others claim 115. Can anyone verify what the actual number is and if that completes the order or there remains another batch or so to be transferred?

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

DAWN.COM | National | Pakistan Army gets US Howitzer guns
Initial order amount was for 115 year 2007, an additional amount of 67 year 2008 was also asked for and granted giving a grand total of 182 units, these will be used along side of the M109A2 currently fielded by Pakistan.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I also read that apart from the guns some boats were also recieved by Pakistan - any details available ?

Thanks in advance
5 fast attack patrol boats were also delivered, 4 water truck were also delivered for humanitarian relief operations in the South Waziristan Region also. 48 M109A5s were delivered with additional units to follow, Pakistan will most likely recieve the full amount of 182 units along with additional units if requested, they actually come from U.S war stocks that more then likely will never be used by the U.S due to force restructuring.
 

mysterious

New Member
Pakistan Asks US to Provide Advanced Attack Helicopters
* Senator John McCain voices support for Pakistani request

WASHINGTON: Pakistan has asked the United States to provide it with much-needed attack helicopters to help bolster ongoing operations against militants in the tribal areas.

Senator John McCain, a top ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and a former US commander in Afghanistan, view Pakistan’s request favourably, according to a report that appeared in The Washington Times on Wednesday.

“I have been ambassador here for two years, and all I have to show for it is eight second-hand Mi-17 transport helicopters for a war that requires helicopters to root out al Qaeda and the Taliban,” Pakistan’s Ambassador to Washington Hussain Haqqani said. “Military operations would have been quicker and much easier to plan and execute if we had the equipment,” Ambassador Haqqani said.

The $2.5 billion in arms that Pakistan has requested includes new helicopter gunships, including AH-1W and the Apache-64-D; armed helicopters, such as the AH-6 and MD-530 Little Bird; and utility and cargo helicopters, such as the UH-60 Black Hawk, the CH-47D Chinook and the UH-1Y Huey.

Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said the US government was aware of its ally’s military equipment list.

“The Pakistan Military’s interest in additional lift is well-known, and we have tried to help meet their needs by providing several Mi-17s. We will continue to try to help them acquire the helicopters and other equipment they require to defeat the insurgents and terrorists in their midst,” Morrell said. The Pakistani Military list also includes a request for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), among the newest and deadliest high-tech arms.

Senator John McCain voiced his support for Pakistan’s request. In an interview he said, “we ought to at least consider this request.” But he also added that the US should provide “better training and maintenance for Pakistan’s military.” “There is a good argument to provide the equipment they need,” he said. APP


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan s

whoa! Thats an aweful lot of variety of different helis. Apaches, Little Birds, Chinooks, Hueys, etc.. Would this not be a logistical nightmare for the already stretched resources of the Pakistan Army?

What could be a minimalist core combination of heavy lift, attack, etc helis that Pakistan Army's aviation wing could most efficiently operate with the resources at hand?
 

kay_man

New Member
Pakistan Asks US to Provide Advanced Attack Helicopters
* Senator John McCain voices support for Pakistani request

WASHINGTON: Pakistan has asked the United States to provide it with much-needed attack helicopters to help bolster ongoing operations against militants in the tribal areas.

Senator John McCain, a top ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and a former US commander in Afghanistan, view Pakistan’s request favourably, according to a report that appeared in The Washington Times on Wednesday.

“I have been ambassador here for two years, and all I have to show for it is eight second-hand Mi-17 transport helicopters for a war that requires helicopters to root out al Qaeda and the Taliban,” Pakistan’s Ambassador to Washington Hussain Haqqani said. “Military operations would have been quicker and much easier to plan and execute if we had the equipment,” Ambassador Haqqani said.

The $2.5 billion in arms that Pakistan has requested includes new helicopter gunships, including AH-1W and the Apache-64-D; armed helicopters, such as the AH-6 and MD-530 Little Bird; and utility and cargo helicopters, such as the UH-60 Black Hawk, the CH-47D Chinook and the UH-1Y Huey.

Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said the US government was aware of its ally’s military equipment list.

“The Pakistan Military’s interest in additional lift is well-known, and we have tried to help meet their needs by providing several Mi-17s. We will continue to try to help them acquire the helicopters and other equipment they require to defeat the insurgents and terrorists in their midst,” Morrell said. The Pakistani Military list also includes a request for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), among the newest and deadliest high-tech arms.

Senator John McCain voiced his support for Pakistan’s request. In an interview he said, “we ought to at least consider this request.” But he also added that the US should provide “better training and maintenance for Pakistan’s military.” “There is a good argument to provide the equipment they need,” he said. APP


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan s

whoa! Thats an aweful lot of variety of different helis. Apaches, Little Birds, Chinooks, Hueys, etc.. Would this not be a logistical nightmare for the already stretched resources of the Pakistan Army?

What could be a minimalist core combination of heavy lift, attack, etc helis that Pakistan Army's aviation wing could most efficiently operate with the resources at hand?
Why not buy more Cobras, rather than going for the heavier Apache.
From what i know its light attack helos are more effective and easier to operate in hilly regions (higher altitudes ) the a heavy bird like apache.
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
Why not buy more Cobras, rather than going for the heavier Apache.
From what i know its light attack helos are more effective and easier to operate in hilly regions (higher altitudes ) the a heavy bird like apache.
Pakistan should purchase Helis which are combat proven in mountaneous regions like the MI-24&28. The KA-52 WOULD ALSO BE GOOD BUT IT IS STILL UNPROVEN.
 

kay_man

New Member
Pakistan should purchase Helis which are combat proven in mountaneous regions like the MI-24&28. The KA-52 WOULD ALSO BE GOOD BUT IT IS STILL UNPROVEN.
Dont know much about the Ka-50 but the HInd is the worst helo to use in the mountains.
its large and bulky nad has a huge heat signature. Also its not all that agile.
Ita great on plains and deserts but not at higher altitudes.
even during the Kargil war the IAF did not use the HInds...they used armed Mi-17 helos and armed chetaks.
 

mysterious

New Member
Pakistan Tests Short-Range Ballistic Missile


Pakistan on Tuesday claimed to have successfully conducted the first flight test of the newly developed short range surface-to-surface multi-tube ballistic missile ‘Hatf IX' (NASR). Viewed by some strategic analysts as Pakistan's answer to India's Cold Start Doctrine, NASR has a range of 60 km and “shoot-and-scoot'' nuclear delivery capability.

The Inter-Services Public Relations said NASR's quick response system addressed need to deter evolving threats. Addressing a gathering at the undisclosed site of the test, Director-General of the Strategic Plans Division Khalid Ahmed Kidwai said the successful flight marked a milestone in consolidating Pakistan's strategic deterrence capability at all levels of the threat spectrum.

Lt. Gen (retd.) Kidwai pointed out that in the hierarchy of military operations, NASR provided Pakistan with short range missile capability in addition to the already available medium and long range ballistic missiles and cruise missiles in its inventory.

Welcoming the test, security analyst Shireen Mazari said in a statement that Pakistan had now acquired tactical nuclear capability with a low yield that could be used in the battlefield. “It will act as a deterrent against use of mechanised conventional land forces. This was essential in the wake of India's adventurist war-fighting doctrine formulations, which envisaged the use of rapid deployment of armed brigades and divisions in surprise and rapid attacks.''

Referring to India's Cold Start Doctrine, Ms. Mazari said, “India has always felt that Pakistan had a loophole in terms of lacking short range battlefield nuclear weapons, which it could exploit on the assumption that it made little sense for Pakistan to respond to such conventional attacks with strategic nuclear weapons. With NASR, Pakistan has plugged that loophole. Indian dreams of a limited war against Pakistan through its Cold Start strategy have been laid to rest. This will allow for a reassertion of a stable nuclear deterrence in the region.''

The Hindu : News / International : Pakistan tests short-range ballistic missile



Hmm, this certainly changes a LOT of things. Tactical nuclear warhead-capable battlefield missiles for the Pakistan Army indeed means taking the bite out of India's 'Cold Start' doctrine. It leaves one wondering what else is the Pakistan Army cooking discreetly in its test-labs, etc since this is the first significant news to come out in more than a year.
 

Twinblade

Member
Pakistan Tests Short-Range Ballistic Missile


Pakistan on Tuesday claimed to have successfully conducted the first flight test of the newly developed short range surface-to-surface multi-tube ballistic missile ‘Hatf IX' (NASR). Viewed by some strategic analysts as Pakistan's answer to India's Cold Start Doctrine, NASR has a range of 60 km and “shoot-and-scoot'' nuclear delivery capability.

The Inter-Services Public Relations said NASR's quick response system addressed need to deter evolving threats. Addressing a gathering at the undisclosed site of the test, Director-General of the Strategic Plans Division Khalid Ahmed Kidwai said the successful flight marked a milestone in consolidating Pakistan's strategic deterrence capability at all levels of the threat spectrum.

Lt. Gen (retd.) Kidwai pointed out that in the hierarchy of military operations, NASR provided Pakistan with short range missile capability in addition to the already available medium and long range ballistic missiles and cruise missiles in its inventory.

Welcoming the test, security analyst Shireen Mazari said in a statement that Pakistan had now acquired tactical nuclear capability with a low yield that could be used in the battlefield. “It will act as a deterrent against use of mechanised conventional land forces. This was essential in the wake of India's adventurist war-fighting doctrine formulations, which envisaged the use of rapid deployment of armed brigades and divisions in surprise and rapid attacks.''

Referring to India's Cold Start Doctrine, Ms. Mazari said, “India has always felt that Pakistan had a loophole in terms of lacking short range battlefield nuclear weapons, which it could exploit on the assumption that it made little sense for Pakistan to respond to such conventional attacks with strategic nuclear weapons. With NASR, Pakistan has plugged that loophole. Indian dreams of a limited war against Pakistan through its Cold Start strategy have been laid to rest. This will allow for a reassertion of a stable nuclear deterrence in the region.''

So are they going to put a neutron bomb warhead on this missile ? if yes, then does Pakistan have enough Tritium production to replenish a large number of these warheads every 12 years ?

Will they wait for Indian Mechanized columns to enter their territory before they nuke them of prefer nuking them inside Indian territory ? or in other words will they like to start a nuclear shooting war with india even before indian infantry and tanks cross the border or prefer blowing up their own cities like lahore, mere 30 miles from the border in case India launches a massive tank offensive on it ?

Tactical or non tactical, a nuke is a nuke. Cold Start is a policy that can be countered with some sharp strategies even in the face of severe conventional disadvantage. What Pakistanis are doing right now is oiling the hair trigger.
 

88a

New Member
Transport and Logistics for Army and Civil Services, is now a major issue:

"AC 313", only if Pakistan gets ToT and a production facility, also cameo of the helicopter should be darkish green or dark greyish black, its look nice n deadly.

The new "Mi-38", is also kool, with a ToT tender and a production facility, Pakistan should be looking for that too, Mi-38 has better endurance, good cargo capability and large troops transport.

Mi-171 n Mi-17 is worth a look as its already in numbers in stock? Can be produced locally. Also Turkish TAI needs to be explored, Any western options with Tot available ?

Ideally Pakistan should focus around on two types of helicopters, (1) a medium-lift transport like Mi-171 or Mi-36 and (2) medium-weight utility helicopter similar to Z-9. Both of these types should be produced locally and adapted for use across all services, be it army,civil, navy, air force, special forces, paramilitaries, etc. The purpose of this is to generate a large enough demand domestically (so that we can justify tech-transfer for local production) and to streamline logistics & maintenance costs. For example, the utility helicopter could be built in shipborne configuration while the medium-lift transport could be assigned to the marines.
 

SURB

Member
Avalanche buries 100 Pakistani troops in Kashmir

A Pakistani general says more than 100 troops have been buried by an avalanche in the disputed Kashmir region.

Pakistan army spokesman Major General Athar Abbas told the BBC some bodies had been recovered but could not say how many had survived.

The avalanche hit a military camp near the Siachen glacier in the Karakoram branch of the Himalaya mountains. A rescue operation is underway.

India and Pakistan both claim the area and have deployed thousands of troops.

Long rescue mission
The avalanche struck the base in the Gayari district at about 06:00 local time (01:00 GMT).

The soldiers are from the Northern Light Infantry regiment, trained in mountain operations, including avalanche rescue.

The military says its "priority is to save lives", and helicopters, sniffer dogs and troops have been sent to the area to help with the rescue.

The BBC's Orla Guerin, in Islamabad, says the remote region is a particularly difficult place to launch a rescue mission, but improving weather conditions are expected to help the operation.

Maj Gen Abbas said the avalanche that hit the military camp had been "very massive" and it could take several days to complete the rescue operation, which was unprecedented in scale for such a location.


The Siachen glacier is in a remote mountain area claimed by both Pakistan and India
He said there had been no communication with any of the missing soldiers.

"It's too early to say how many survived and how many bodies have been recovered," he said.

Although the region is prone to avalanches, the general said, they tend to occur in "forward bases" at higher altitude, where only 10 or 20 troops are located.

The numbers involved in this incident were so high, he said, because avalanches were not expected in the immediate area of the camp that was struck.

An avalanche killed 24 Pakistani troops in 2010 - this is believed to be the heaviest loss of life in a previous such incident until now.


The Siachen glacier is known as the world's highest battlefield, and soldiers have been deployed at elevations of up to 6,700m (22,000 feet).

However, more soldiers have died from the harsh weather conditions there than in combat.

View attachment 5312
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17643625
Contradictory news about the number of soldiers who got hit by this tragic Avalanche.Precious lives are lost. Rescue mission is still underway.Chances of survival are grim due to harsh weather conditions.The area of siachin involved is very close to the border.The area involved is almost 1 sq km.

A military statement said the avalanche struck early on Saturday morning, raising the possibility that soldiers were asleep at the time.
 

mysterious

New Member
US military may hand over Afghan war equipment to Pakistan

With the war in Afghanistan winding down, news reports suggest that the United States may dispose $7 billion in military equipment by handing it over to Pakistan.

The Washington Post (WP) reported that the potential move could be, "part of an effort by the Pentagon to unload excess military supplies to US allies at no cost".

The report said that discussions on this issue has been taking place over several months between American and Pakistani officials.

One motive for this potential transaction is that the US does not want to pay to ship out leftover military hardware from the conflict in neighboring Afghanistan.

The WP report gives detail that although a final decision on this issue has not been taken, Pakistan has particular interest in acquiring the US Army’s mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicles.

The MRAP vehicles could be used by Pakistan's military in its fight against Taliban insurgents within its tribal areas bordering Afghanistan.

The WP report describes the MRAP as,"the backbone of the US military’s vehicle fleet in Afghanistan...designed to protect American troops from explosive devices".

Pentagon leaders have said it would potentially cost more than $100,000 per vehicle to ship MRAP vehicles back to the US.

The US government is offering the vehicles to allies for free on an “as-is, where-is” basis, said the report quoting a Pentagon spokesman.

A Pakistani security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that the military was also interested in acquiring night-vision and communications equipment.

Siemon T. Wezeman, a senior researcher and South Asia expert at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, is quoted in the article as stating that the MRAP deal could be beneficial to both countries.

Wezeman says that the US military is wary about leaving behind surplus equipment in Afghanistan, fearing the Afghan army's ability to fend off the Taliban insurgency.

“There is a feeling in the US that the Afghan army is not totally reliable, so it may be safer to just park them in Pakistan,” Wezeman is quoted as saying.

However there is apprehension on the part of the US to make the equipment transfer fearing the impact it could have on its own relations with Afghanistan and Pakistan's arch-rival India.

Wezeman however doubts that India would seriously object “to a few hundred MRAPs ending up in Pakistan.”

He said that the vehicles are built to fight insurgencies and would have little value in a major cross-border war involving tanks and warplanes.

Another flipside is that Pakistan would itself put limits to the amount of equipment they would be willing to accept.

“Pakistan won’t become America’s junkyard,” the WP report quoted an official as saying.

US military may hand over Afghan war equipment to Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Pakistan eyes U.S. military equipment in Afghanistan - The Washington Post

This definitely is welcome news for Pakistan Army's own insurgency campaign against TTP and various other splinter militant outfits. MRAPs would be a bit shot in the arm for Pakistan Army's COIN Ops.

In addition to transfer of US Army's MRAPs from Afghanistan as 'excess defence articles', I would go so far as to suggest that Pakistan should conclude an agreement on ToT & get these into mass production at the earliest because the war against TTP is far from over.
 

mysterious

New Member
State Dept. Approves Pakistan Arms Request - WSJ

DOUG CAMERON
April 6, 2015 6:12 p.m. ET

The State Department has approved Pakistan’s request to buy almost $1 billion in U.S.-made attack helicopters, missiles and other equipment aimed at fighting insurgents in the country’s mountainous north and west regions.

U.S. defense companies are engaged in a three-way tussle with Russia and China to sell weapons to Pakistan, complicated by the need to avoid upsetting neighbor India and its even larger arms’ import market.

The Pentagon said Monday that Pakistan had requested 15 AH-1Z Viper helicopters made by the Bell arm of Textron Inc., as well as 1,000 Hellfire missiles produced by Lockheed Martin Corp. and a host of other communications and training equipment with a total value of $952 million, according to a notification to Congress, which needs to approve any sale.

Any deal would be structured as a foreign military sale between the two governments.

“This proposed sale of helicopters and weapon systems will provide Pakistan with military capabilities in support of its counterterrorism and counterinsurgency operations in South Asia,” said the Defense Security Cooperation Agency, which oversees U.S. military exports.

Write to Doug Cameron at [email protected]

State Department Approves Pakistan Arms Request - WSJ


Whoa! 15 AH-1Z Vipers and 1,000 Hellfire missiles!! That is some serious purchase if it goes through. Pakistan just began battlefield evaluation of three Chinese Z-10 attack helis that arrived from China about a month ago. They are being deployed on the frontlines in Pakistan's COIN ops near the Afghan border regioin. Pakistan is also in talks with Russia for Mi-35 Hind helis. Attack helis galore I'd say.
 

88a

New Member
To fight the Taliban, Pakistani military turns to unorthodox but simple tactics:

Video: To fight the Taliban, Pakistani military turns to unorthodox but simple tactics - The Washington Post


KHARIAN, Pakistan — Pakistan’s army is finally making significant gains in its campaign against Islamist militants, and some of the success can be traced back to unlikely sources: paintballs and bird calls.

Here, tucked in a forest, Pakistan’s military has built a sprawling base to train soldiers in how to fight small groups of terrorists. The National Counterterrorism Center Pabbi is one of a half-dozen training sites in Pakistan, but military leaders say 65 percent of the troops fighting militants in the northwest have been trained at this facility in Punjab province.

Earlier this month, the Pakistani military took The Washington Post on a rare public tour of the 2,500-acre facility, which opened in 2009 and resembles a hunting ranch on the scrublands of Texas.

The training, which includes some un*or*tho*dox methods, is designed to make Pakistani troops more proficient in face-to-face combat. Although the troops have gained experience fighting in harsh terrain over the past few decades, they are still largely geared toward a tank-on-tank war with arch rival India.

“After 9/11, it’s now a new world, and with this new world we are gearing up for our responsibility,” said Brig. Abrar Ali, commander of the center. “In our experience, this is not a battle with large forces. We have to learn how to fight in very small teams.”

For years, U.S. lawmakers and generals have tried to get Pakistan’s military to shift its security posture to prioritize operations against Islamist militants sheltering in the country. To nudge it along, the Pentagon has given the Pakistani military $13 billion in reimbursements over the past 13 years for its counterterrorism efforts, according to a recent report by the Congressional Research Service. The State Department recently approved a $950 million arms sale to Pakistan, including 15 Viper helicopters, 1,000 Hellfire missiles and new radios.

But Pakistani commanders and troops say the training conducted at the National Counterterrorism Center Pabbi is what is really allowing them to gain the upper hand against Islamist militants. Since the army launched a major operation in June, soldiers have cleared most of North Waziristan. They are now trying to drive the extremists from their final hiding places in the Tirah Valley, in adjoining Khyber Agency, commanders say.

“These Taliban are dug in the caves, so you can’t do it by aerial bombardment,” said Javed Ashraf Qazi, a retired general and former head of Pakistan’s intelligence service. “You have to go in there and physically dislodge them.”

As many as 3,000 soldiers arrive each month for two dozen training scenarios, some of which are staged in a set made to look like a typical village in Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA). The mock village includes nearly a dozen one- and two-story stone and mud structures, as well as a network of underground tunnels.

“This is a complete architectural rendition, from the interior to the exterior to the foxholes, of what you would see in FATA,” Maj. Nauman Mushtaq said as he led a reporter through a muddy tunnel that started in one house and ended in another.

Although the training includes some live-fire exercises, the army relies heavily on paintballs for its simulated war games.

On one part of the base, soldiers armed with paintball guns face off in a field about the size of a volleyball court. A unit in training will go through at least 2,000 paintballs.

During exercises, a soldier shot above the chest with a paintball is considered killed. Three or more hits below the waist mean ejection from the drill.

Maj. Khalid Waleed, who was overseeing the course, said Pakistani soldiers trained for battles in open farmlands along the border with India must now also become more comfortable with “close-quarters battles close to the ground.”

Another part of the base includes a mock two-story cave. A second-story window allows trainers and commanders to look into the cave. They use a computerized camera system and mannequins to fire paintballs at soldiers inside.

During a recent demonstration, three soldiers threw flash bangs before storming a cave. They took cover behind rocks as they spent several minutes battling their computer-aided opponent. By the time it was over, two soldiers had escaped unscathed; a third was scraping paint off his neck.

In another exercise, soldiers are taught how to fire from a moving truck. (Shoot the assailant closest to the vehicle first; it could be a suicide bomber.) Soldiers also practice how to rescue someone while still using both hands to fire their weapons. (Shoulders can carry a tremendous amount of weight).

After years of casualties from insurgent ambushes, the military now sees the need for unconventional battle tactics. So soldiers also are learning how to conduct surprise offensive attacks.

In one exercise, a soldier hides in a tree in what looks like a large nest. He has been taught a variety of bird calls, one of which he calls out when he sees a potential target. Then, under the tree, soldiers concealed in a small pit covered with sticks and grass climb out and begin shooting.

“The terrorists don’t suspect us to use these tactics, so when we do, they are really badly trapped,” Ali said.

Lt. Col. Kashif Amin, who leads a cavalry regiment of 44 tanks based in the eastern city of Lahore, brought 400 soldiers for the training because their tanks are of little operational use in rugged North Waziristan.

“Especially for the younger soldiers, this is more challenging because they were trained for armored operations but will now be doing infantry,” Amin said.

The key to surviving as an infantry soldier in a place such as North Waziristan is knowing where to step.

Fake explosive devices are planted around the base, and they detonate when a soldier steps on them. One section of woodlands is littered with booby traps, including tripwires that if tugged cause wooden spears to swing out of trees. Soldiers also have to watch out for death traps, such as sharpened sticks at the bottom of a hole.

Still, Ali concedes that the military is battling an enemy who will probably always have some advantage when fighting in Pakistan’s tribal areas. He notes that many militants use the same stealth tactics that they or their fathers perfected as mujahideen fighters who resisted the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s.

“The only specialized training they need is how to make [bombs],” Ali said.
 

Adioz

New Member
I do not know much about this insurgency, but what I do remember is that this insurgency arose from the influx of Taliban insurgents escaping the onslaught by NATO forces in Afghanistan. The operations by the Pakistan armed forces in the Waziristan region are a similar carnage that will force these terrorists back to Afghanistan. This will only temporarily end insurgency in Waziristan. Its like a ping-pong game between the two nations with the Taliban ball.

Maybe a better approach that might end (or at least significantly damage) terrorist forces in this part of the world is coordinating with Afghan forces to execute a hammer-anvil that will decimate these insurgents. I would like to know if any steps are being taken in this direction.
 

Blackshoe

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Maybe a better approach that might end (or at least significantly damage) terrorist forces in this part of the world is coordinating with Afghan forces to execute a hammer-anvil that will decimate these insurgents. I would like to know if any steps are being taken in this direction.
The first step in that process would be either of the two armies being able to operate effectively in the most important areas (RC-East in Afghanistan, the FATA in Pakistan). That's going to take awhile.

The second step would be either of the two armies not hating each other and having the slightest iota of trust for each other. That's going to take longer.
 

Adioz

New Member
The first step in that process would be either of the two armies being able to operate effectively in the most important areas
I guess you are right, given that the Afghan army already has its hand full dealing with the fall of two districts and that parliament attack (kudos to Essa Khan who shot down the Taliban before they could enter the parliament). However the Pakistan Army is already in position in the North Waziristan and will soon be in the Khyber region as well.
The second step would be either of the two armies not hating each other and having the slightest iota of trust for each other.
I would not blame the Pakistan Army for this given the lack of discipline in the Afghan Army and Taliban infiltration in their ranks. After all the Afghan Army is a hastily knit force to enable a NATO troop withdrawal.

However, I believe U.S. can be the bridge between the two mistrusting armies. The Afghan and Pakistan armies do not have to conduct joint ops. They only need to share info and coordinate at a strategic level, not at the tactical level. Maybe this can be done with U.S. as a mediator?
 
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