To MiG-21 Operators

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adriann

Banned Member
I saw interesting reading at eBay.com concerning unexploited MiG-21 maneuvering capabilities, things in line with AirForceSystemsCommand reports... It seems that it has nice "point and shoot" ability...
 
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Kilo 2-3

New Member
Wait..."unexploited low speed maneuverability?" Most of what I've read or seen from ex-fighter pilots and historians seems to very pointedly suggest that the MiG-21 was not a competitor at low altitudes and low speeds. And, according to this (Indian Air Force :: The Aerodynamics of the MiG 21 accidents), the MiG-21 has trouble at low speed, some AoAs, and low altitude, most notably on takeoff and landing.

But if I'm missing something here, please fill me in, I'm very eager to know. :)

By the way, I found more of the book on Goggle Books, it makes a few interesting points. FIGHTER PERFORMANCE IN PRACTICE ... - Google Books
 
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adriann

Banned Member
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  • #3
Kilo 2-3 said:
Wait..."unexploited low speed maneuverability?" Most of what I've read or seen from ex-fighter pilots and historians seems to very pointedly suggest that the MiG-21 was not a competitor at low altitudes and low speeds. And, according to this, the MiG-21 has trouble at low speed, some AoAs, and low altitude, most notably on takeoff and landing.
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Yeah, it is common opinion. Also, it seems that brothers Indians did not explore 21's full capabilities, but instead opted for TVC Sukhoi. Did anybody explain 21's Split-S within 3000 ft ?
Some Aggressor , ex-F-15 pilots are telling that 21 is kicking their ass below 250 kt, thanks to its better pitch controllability and higher trimmed alpha. Who would say ??
 
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dragonfire

New Member
adriann said:
Yeah, it is common opinion. Also, it seems that brothers Indians did not explore 21's full capabilities, but instead opted for TVC Sukhoi. Did anybody explain 21's Split-S within 3000 ft ?
Some Aggressor , ex-F-15 pilots are telling that 21 is kicking their ass below 250 kt, thanks to its better pitch controllability and higher trimmed alpha. Who would say ??
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I havent heard of the fishbed being good at maneuverability esp at lower air speeds but there are some mods that the IAF has done to its newer fleet of Mig-21's with the help of the Israeli's like radar jammers and some other stuff (cant remember), would suggest any interested ppl to check tht out (apparently in some Indo-US air exercise the the IAF fishbeds were able to sneak upto the UASF fighters)
 
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adriann

Banned Member
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I have heard of its capabilities from two sources, that book at the eBay:

and U.S. sources in the attachment....
 
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adriann

Banned Member
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Any Air Force that utilise MiG-21 to full extent, beyond conservative flight manuals like it was tested in U.S. ?
 
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dragonfire

New Member
adriann said:
Yeah, it is common opinion. Also, it seems that brothers Indians did not explore 21's full capabilities, but instead opted for TVC Sukhoi. Did anybody explain 21's Split-S within 3000 ft ?
Some Aggressor , ex-F-15 pilots are telling that 21 is kicking their ass below 250 kt, thanks to its better pitch controllability and higher trimmed alpha. Who would say ??
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The mig-21 is generaly considered a high speed interceptor aircraft during its hey days. This single engine aircraft is not meant for maneuvering as much, older model single engine aircrafts run the danger of stalling in such extreme motions and once it stalls then it just falls out of the sky. It has claimed the lifes of dozens of IAF pilots. The Mig-21 and TVC Sukhoi arent comprable aircraft and are meant for different tasks so the IAF hasnt chose the SU-30 MKI over the Mig-21, infact the Mig-21's in the IAF inventory will be replaced by LCA MK I and II and the winner of the MMRCA competition

Also - ur link leads to only a teaser page
 
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adriann

Banned Member
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  • #11
dragonfire;[/QUOTE said:
Things I am talking about are from official US TAC evaluation, Arab combat experience and abilities 21's aerodynamics allows.
Other thing is that aircraft is designed for high speed interceptions, but design concept incidentally has attributes that modern combat favors: slow minimum speed and very high trimmed angles of attack.
Its engine, during US testing at these slow speeds/high alphas never stalled - another modern combat attribute Feature is byproduct of few stages, two-shaft engine that has slow response and high specific fuel consumption (there is nothing all bad in nature).

Of course that pilot should be very careful exploring left parts of envelope, but it is not bad to know that such maneuvering potential exists.
“Teasing” is other thing, expression that US MiG pilots used when talked how other Air Forces use MiG-21.
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Zaphael

New Member
adriann said:
Things I am talking about are from official US TAC evaluation, Arab combat experience and abilities 21's aerodynamics allows.
Other thing is that aircraft is designed for high speed interceptions, but design concept incidentally has attributes that modern combat favors: slow minimum speed and very high trimmed angles of attack.
Its engine, during US testing at these slow speeds/high alphas never stalled - another modern combat attribute Feature is byproduct of few stages, two-shaft engine that has slow response and high specific fuel consumption (there is nothing all bad in nature).

Of course that pilot should be very careful exploring left parts of envelope, but it is not bad to know that such maneuvering potential exists.
“Teasing” is other thing, expression that US MiG pilots used when talked how other Air Forces use MiG-21.
Click to expand...
Nice. If studies like these weren't done, greener pilots would think that the MiG-21 can't turn for shit against their 4th Gen F-16, get into a scissors with it and wind up front while the MiG's just floating there at 110 kts ready to loose an off-boresight archer.
 
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adriann

Banned Member
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Somebody has corresponding F-16 / LCA / Su-30 figure ?
Of course that is not all story of a/c abilities but modern combat highlights max lift and trimmed alpha...
 
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