STOVL and VTOL

marq

New Member
Im just wondering what are some new STOVL and VTOL aircraft i rember hearing a little about a large cargo VTOL that could carry a light truck and i lager version that could carry a light tank

also id like to know whats happing with the the new F35 lighting B, is that going to experience a production cut like the F22

im just wondering if anyone knows whats new in this field

fell free to talk about any other relevant aircraft that you know of
 

the road runner

Active Member
marq,there are some posts about the JSF in this forum

US to halt plans of 110 JSF per year

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/a...and-usaf-halt-plans-110-f-35s-per-year-10225/

IS the F-35 doomed

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/f-35-doomed-9750/

If you have a read of the above posts im sure you will walk away with a greater understanding of the JSF.

As for VTOL aircraft the only other aircraft i can think of would be the V-22 Osprey.(half plane half helicopter)

The Harrier is a STOVL aircraft

Regards......
 

marq

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Yes my mistake there were post about the F35 like from yesterday
and yes i am aware of the Osprey and the Harrier

my origional questions was about a large V22 type aircraft that could carry more then just infitry

i know this is not yet a project by the airforce but i do remember something like what i described a few years back a very large tilt rotar aircraft
 

Kilo 2-3

New Member
Yes my mistake there were post about the F35 like from yesterday
and yes i am aware of the Osprey and the Harrier

my origional questions was about a large V22 type aircraft that could carry more then just infitry

i know this is not yet a project by the airforce but i do remember something like what i described a few years back a very large tilt rotar aircraft
Marq, please check your spelling before posting, your ideas are sound, but the typos and misspellings detract from your work.

Take a look at this: the 'V-44" concept, essentially an expanded Osprey. (Quad Tiltrotor QTR). Purely a "paper airplane," but an example of what future large titlrotors might look like.

As for carrying "more than just infantry" the Osprey can already sling-carry HUMMVs. (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/V-22_Humvee.jpg).
 

marq

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Thankyou, that was what i was looking for i will definitely check my spelling grammar from now on

i will definitely check my spelling grammar from now on. Also do you know if the V22 could fit a humvee in it[/QUOTE]
 

Kilo 2-3

New Member
Also do you know if the V22 could fit a humvee in it
I don't know the answer to your question, but I'd keep this in mind.

I doubt being able to do so would be of much utility. In a pinch, HUMMVs can be carried inside a CH-47, but it isn't SOP, it's easier and more practical to sling-carry it. Now, obviously the Osprey is a very different bird; but the basic concept does transfer.

Even if the Osprey could internally carry HUMMVs and its successor internally, its unlikely that it would become common practice.

Also, more info on expanded Osprey-type/Osprey family tiltrotor designs. (V22 Osprey Web)
 

Wooki

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
.... Also do you know if the V22 could fit a humvee in it...
The answer is NO.

It has the same internal space as a CH-46 that it was designed to replace. It does carry specialist vehicles called ITVs or "Internally Transported Vehicles" that are basically very small jeeps and ATVs.

cheers

w
 

Chrisious

New Member
Perhaps you were thinking about the Mi-12, though in truth this didn't go into full production.
Have included a youtube video link below, believe only two were ever built.

[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS83TySok5I[/nomedia]
 
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gforce

New Member
I hope I will not go off-topic with these questions in mind... Why is that only the Americans and the British have developed and produced VTOL warplanes in mass production like the Harriers, Ospreys and F-35s but the Russians did not push through with their own while other countries did not thought of developing their own version? Didn't they thought about the benefits of having warplanes with such capabilities?

I admire this aircraft technology because it will really save a lot of runways both on land and on carriers (ships). In a archipelago country like my own - the Philippines, having a VTOL warplane like the Harrier will be a great advantage because these warplanes can easily do "island hopping" and literally can be assigned anywhere just like the Marines!

VTOL (plus supersonic and stealth technology) will be the future of air forces.

OT: If you will watch Sci-Fi movies like Star Wars, you will see that spaceships uses VTOL technology in full extent because there are no runways in space and most planets' surfaces are cratered.
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
I hope I will not go off-topic with these questions in mind... Why is that only the Americans and the British have developed and produced VTOL warplanes in mass production like the Harriers, Ospreys and F-35s but the Russians did not push through with their own while other countries did not thought of developing their own version? Didn't they thought about the benefits of having warplanes with such capabilities?

I admire this aircraft technology because it will really save a lot of runways both on land and on carriers (ships). In a archipelago country like my own - the Philippines, having a VTOL warplane like the Harrier will be a great advantage because these warplanes can easily do "island hopping" and literally can be assigned anywhere just like the Marines!

VTOL (plus supersonic and stealth technology) will be the future of air forces.

OT: If you will watch Sci-Fi movies like Star Wars, you will see that spaceships uses VTOL technology in full extent because there are no runways in space and most planets' surfaces are cratered.
More than anything, I think it's a matter of assessing whether the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. STOVL aircraft are often more complex than conventional take off and landing (CTOL) aircraft, with associated maintenance requirements. Additionally, up until now their performance has suffered compared to an equivalent CTOL aircraft (look at the Harrier's performance characteristics compared to CTOL aircraft of the same generation), and even with the F-35B looking like it will greatly improve these characteristics, even it is still going to be less capable than a CTOL Lightning in terms of fuel capacity and its ability to carry certain weapons (at least I believe this is still the case - its weapons bay isn't as large as the CTOL version, please correct if I'm mistaken).

What has to be considered is whether VTOL/STOVL is necessary to the capability an air force wishes to develop. In your example, with say, Harriers deploying "island hopping" style in the Phillipines - it sounds good in theory, but then you have to develop and spread out your infrastructure wherever you wish to deploy them. You have to have sufficient fuel and munitions stocks (and fast jets go through a LOT of fuel) so they can be used effectively, which means not only do the jets have to island-hop, but their whole supply chain has to, as well. So how do you make that process fast enough that the STOVL capability becomes an advantage? Remember you'll need a developed, complicated supply chain, with all its own associated costs and requirements. Or do you have stocks of fuel and munitions ready and waiting at all areas out of which jets are likely to operate? If this is the case you're going to need protected storage for both fuel and munitions, and maintenance infrastructure for the weapons. In addition this means you have to split your warstocks over a wide range of bases, so that will have a flow-on effect if your jets are operating heavily out of a single island and your warstocks are widely distributed. If you need to redistribute them in a hurry, once again, your supply chain will need to be developed. Or would it be of greater advantage (and much simpler) to consolidate your deployment area and invest in jets with a longer range?

Not saying I have the answers, just these questions are relevant to the sort of deployments you're talking about. And I could be wrong about all of it, I'm just speaking theoretically - there are other, more qualified posters here who could give you a better idea of the relative merits of STOVL deployments. :)
 
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