Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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Lofty_DBF

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Ok thanks for clearing that up. Its obviously a small boost to morale for our boys knowing we have the LR5 capability locally on hand now.
A bit of info for you.
The most dangerous time for a submarine is when it is exiting or entering harbour, traveling up the shipping lanes.
Submarines are hard to spot on the surface most of the submarine is submerged.
Majority of areas that our submarines operate in are too deep for rescues. Submarine crews know this and always joke saying its only to keep the wifes happy.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
There haven't been many successful rescues of sub crews. Even a fire on the surface can be really bad news. But it will help improve the very low odds of survival.
 

1805

New Member
Is there any clear information on timescales for the OCV and likely weapons options. I appreciate this may be to early.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
Is there any clear information on timescales for the OCV and likely weapons options. I appreciate this may be to early.
I can't imagine any being built until after the LHDs and DDGs are built. I'm thinking in terms not before 2020. I figure no more than a 76-mm gun, maybe less, and at least a SeaRam or Ram close in air defence missile system. Still a good ten years into the future...
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
I can't imagine any being built until after the LHDs and DDGs are built. I'm thinking in terms not before 2020. I figure no more than a 76-mm gun, maybe less, and at least a SeaRam or Ram close in air defence missile system. Still a good ten years into the future...
Perhaps, perhaps not. While the AWD is to be built in SA, the LHDs are being largely built in Spain and then fitted out in Australia. This leaves a few shipyards available to construct the OCV, particularly since it is to be in the ~2,000 ton displacement range. While I doubt the OCV programme would start soon enough to deliver a vessel before 2015, I could see OCV deliveries starting ~2017 to be somewhat concurrent with the last AWD and/or the start of the Anzac replacement. This becomes particularly true if the RNZN decided to get onboard the OCV concept as well for some of their minor vessels. Such a situation could lead to the first OCV being delivered sooner (2016-ish), rather than later, depending on design/build timeframes. Granted the earlier OCV's in this situation would likely be for the RNZN to replace some of their support vessels, it could still fit within the overall OCV concept.

-Cheers
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
The OCV are also to replace some minor vessels like the mine hunters and much older survey ships. I would imagine they would replace our patrol boats eventually as well. However the first ships may work in combination with the patrol boats, because the patrol boats frankly aren't big enough to deal with migrant boats arriving in our north. There is nowhere to put 100 people, even for very short journeys or stays. It is rather silly to use frigates for this purpose as they aren't designed for it either.

They may finish the first build in ~5 years. Build rate could happen slowly at 1 per year, or much faster if required.

It should be designed to take up to 76mm, but most of them would be fitted with typhoons. Provide spots for seaRAM and/or Phalanx which can be fitted from the pool. A mine hunter or survey ship doesn't need a 76mm or Searam most (any ?) of the time. The LCS 57mm gun seems to be attractive, I'm sure the RAN would be interested in it for the few ships going into higher risk areas. Other LCS systems/weapons may also be fitted. But they aren't front line warships or even corvettes.

These ships would be perfect for EEZ policing, people smuggling and allowing Australia to patrol international waters when this Japan verse sea shepards thing goes ballistic, or simular incidents. (see cod wars etc).

They are not going to be armed to the teeth (although in war time they could be upgunned, there could be space avalible for harpoons, Helicopters, 76mm, UUV's, Searam etc). But are designed to be a sizeable vessel with good "peacetime" capabilities. Rescues, searching, patrolling, enforcing, boarding, policing, surveying, delivering aid etc.

Freeing up the 11-12 7,000t ship fleet for high intensity stuff. These ships could also work under the protective umbrella of the frigates or AWD to enforce in higher threat enviroments like ME or Asia. So that you don't end up in the situation where inflatable boat boarding parties get cornered by patrol boats with help very far away.
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
The problem with trying to guess a timing for OCV construction is that except for the survey launches, the ships they will be replacing, such as the Huon class and Armidale class are all under 10 years old.

On the other hand, the Armidales could be handed over to Customs or the Pacific Islands, with the Mine Hunters replaced last.
 

lopez

Member
do you think the navy will ever consider operating ships similar to the last [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Jervis_Bay_%28AKR_45%29"]HMAS Jervis Bay (AKR 45) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:HMAS_Jervis_Bay_crop.jpg" class="image"><img alt="A warship-grey catamaran travelling at speed (from right to left) on the open sea" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/HMAS_Jervis_Bay_crop.jpg/300px-HMAS_Jervis_Bay_crop.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/5/5a/HMAS_Jervis_Bay_crop.jpg/300px-HMAS_Jervis_Bay_crop.jpg[/ame]
HMAS Jervis bay?

they would offer some really good capabilities...
 

LancasterBomber

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
I meant to post this a while ago (and its now up on the defence jobs site anyway) but as from this month all Navy recruits need to pass push up and sit up tests as well as the shuttle run. Previously the only requirement was a very low shuttle run.

This probably comes on back of recent reports of RAN personnel not having enough upper body (or core body) strength to help their mates out of the water into a RHIB off ashmore reef.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Having a look at possible future ship for the RAN which i think would get bipartisan support from all sides of government sealift/troop/hospital ship.

I know there are other pressing matters for the RAN regarding shipping, but i was thinking along the lines of a fast ROPAX ferry such as the sprit of Tasmania ll.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Spirit_of_Tasmania_II"]MS Spirit of Tasmania II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Spirit_of_Tasmania_II.jpg" class="image"><img alt="Spirit of Tasmania II.jpg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Spirit_of_Tasmania_II.jpg/300px-Spirit_of_Tasmania_II.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/6/63/Spirit_of_Tasmania_II.jpg/300px-Spirit_of_Tasmania_II.jpg[/ame]

My line of thought is it main job would be humanitarian duties around the pacific countries fly the flag type, goodwill operations. She has the capability to be multi task as a troop/hospital ship with a vehicle deck that could use for ambulance and a ready field hospital to quickly be deployed in the field for humanitarian/disaster relief. It would also be crewed by a mix of civilian/military crew set up similar to the USN hospital ships,’ not sure how you would change the design to accommodate a helicopter landing area.

My other idea was to acquire two Bay Class ships; one built purely to mil spec the other to commercial standards with a redesigned interior as a permanent hospital/ humanitarian support ship. This could also keep a dedicated field hospital below deck with lcm-8 to distribute supply for disaster relief. Plus the flight deck for helo ops

Looking at other dedicated hospital ship is the USS Mercy/Comfort. Being ex oil tanker they are on the large size for Australia but come with a 1000 bed and twelve operating theatres.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Comfort"]USNS Comfort (T-AH-20) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Question_book-new.svg" class="image"><img alt="Question book-new.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png[/ame]

Thoughts.
 

Sea Toby

New Member
do you think the navy will ever consider operating ships similar to the last HMAS Jervis Bay (AKR 45) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
HMAS Jervis bay?

they would offer some really good capabilities...
For whom? Unfortunately, it appears the only buyers of such ships is the US Navy, and only because the US Navy requires ferries to support its forces at Okinawa. If the US didn't have forces at Okinawa, I doubt seriously the US Navy would have bought them.

These fast ferries happen to have a usefulness with Okinawa due to the distance of the main Japanese islands. If this island was half the distance, the US Navy would have most likely bought a larger cheaper slower ferry much like the British RMS St. Helena.

Put simply, a fast or even a slow ferry provides more sea lift for isolated bases on islands than several more expensive cargo aircrafts. Larger ferries and cargo ships can be purchased for either the same price or less. I wouldn't consider a fast ferry as a warship.. Outside of the US Navy, not many other navies have a similar requirement.
 

StoresBasher

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I meant to post this a while ago (and its now up on the defence jobs site anyway) but as from this month all Navy recruits need to pass push up and sit up tests as well as the shuttle run. Previously the only requirement was a very low shuttle run.

This probably comes on back of recent reports of RAN personnel not having enough upper body (or core body) strength to help their mates out of the water into a RHIB off ashmore reef.
The new pre-enlistment fitness test, that adds the push/sit ups to the shuttle run, came into force of April 1st. This is due the high number of recruits not being able to pass the RAN Fitness Test once they are in RTS.
 

LancasterBomber

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
A bit of info for you.
The most dangerous time for a submarine is when it is exiting or entering harbour, traveling up the shipping lanes.
Submarines are hard to spot on the surface most of the submarine is submerged.
Majority of areas that our submarines operate in are too deep for rescues. Submarine crews know this and always joke saying its only to keep the wifes happy.
When we are in too deep for rescue I am really interested in 'defensive' UUVs. So we could have highly modularized UUVs that can be tasked for offensive ISR purposes and then a seperate set of UUVs modularized to deploy when on station tasked with monitoring the hull 'life ecosystems'. So we can seriously push the operational boundaries like never before.

As for shipping channels can we not develop UUvs that we can deploy to attach to freighter hulls. These UUVs are programed to record hull specific signatures. They also can detect if clearance divers enter the water whereby they disengage and dive to a depth beyond clearance diver scope. They then return to reattach to the hull when they sense it is safe to do so. They could detect when a freighter is entering a port and disengage and dive to safe depth where it then waits in the shipping channel outside the port for the specific freighters signature to return back through the channel where it then rises to reattaches to the hull.

We could aim to tag every hull we ever come across with these intelligent UUVs and build an effective 'live military ocean traffic monitor' through a global network of UUVs that 'leech' freighter hulls.

The other idea I had was to use a 'star trail' of UUVs for when our subs enter/exit port and shipping lanes. So when we are 300Nm from base and enter a shipping lane we drop a UUV. Then at 280Nm from base we drop another UUV and so on until we reach base.

Then when we resupply and exit base we use the UUVs we dropped to 'guide' us back into blue water (and we pick up the UUVs as we go). If the crew is dead tired and mistakes are made the UUVs actually have the power to assume control of the sub and emergency dive to avoid a freighter.

By the way check out this presentation its an interesting look at where we are headed:

Dennis Hong: My seven species of robot | Video on TED.com
 

hairyman

Active Member
On the subject of the Future OCV, I wonder if one based on the original design of a trimaran from Austal, which the USS Independence was based on, will be considered, or would it be too big. From memory it was smaller that Independence, and had a completely different appearance with the space between the hulls being more open. It had a more agressive appearance. Then again, they could make it any size they wanted, could'nt they?
 

LancasterBomber

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
Looks like we might be able to break Moore's law finally with memristors. I hope GF and DSTO and the new DMTC in Bendigo are right on top of this stuff. :) I'm sure its old news to them.

Memristor discovery could lead to faster HPC | Emerging Tech | ZDNet UK

The official paper was released in Nature:

Access : |[lsquo]|Memristive|[rsquo]| switches enable |[lsquo]|stateful|[rsquo]| logic operations via material implication : Nature
Very interesting article LB, thanks for the link. Would be interested to hear what GF et al make of this.
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Hi all

Hey everyone, new to the site and just wanted to say hi. I was in the RAN from 87-95. Still find it interesting to keep tabs on what is happening in the "PUSS". Just a couple of quick ones (probably been covered before, but don't have time to read through 238 pages !!), Do you think the RAN will operate f35 b's from the canberra class in the future ?? (I would love to think so !!)
and also in the 2009 White paper, the Army will be getting many new vehicles including new Armoured Personnel Carriers, does anyone think it a possibility we could get a number of the new USMC EFV to operate from the canberra class ??

Thanks, and hope to have many great discussions in the future with so much changing in the RAN

Glenn
 

Sea Toby

New Member
Hey everyone, new to the site and just wanted to say hi. I was in the RAN from 87-95. Still find it interesting to keep tabs on what is happening in the "PUSS". Just a couple of quick ones (probably been covered before, but don't have time to read through 238 pages !!), Do you think the RAN will operate f35 b's from the canberra class in the future ?? (I would love to think so !!)
and also in the 2009 White paper, the Army will be getting many new vehicles including new Armoured Personnel Carriers, does anyone think it a possibility we could get a number of the new USMC EFV to operate from the canberra class ??

Thanks, and hope to have many great discussions in the future with so much changing in the RAN

Glenn
Outside of possibly a few allied F-3Bs landing on the Canberra class LHDs, no. The LHDs don't have the fuel or munitions bunkers to operate F-35Bs effectively. There is much more to a light carrier than a flat top...

The EPVs are much more likely to be used on the Canberras, if only with USMC vehicles in an exercise. At a later date the ADF may buy some, although I don't know of any plans to do so...

I know the Australians are very proud of their former Melbourne light carrier, but the ship Australia missed more during the East Timor crisis was the former Sydney... By the way something the ADF will soon correct, not once but twice....
 
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aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Outside of possibly a few allied F-3Bs landing on the Canberra class LHDs, no. The LHDs don't have the fuel or munitions bunkers to operate F-35Bs effectively. There is much more to a light carrier than a flat top...

The EPVs are much more likely to be used on the Canberras, if only with USMC vehicles in an exercise. At a later date the ADF may buy some, although I don't know of any plans to do so...

I know the Australians are very proud of their former Melbourne light carrier, but the ship Australia missed more during the East Timor crisis was the former Sydney... By the way something the ADF will soon correct, not once but twice....
I understand this, I in no way think of the canberra class as an aircraft carrier, there is very much more to it than that, I am talking about the possibility for us to operate the jsf, as the USMC currently does with the harriers on the Wasp class. It is not intended for high sortie rates on an extendd period of time, but for air support of the landing force in the first instance. The Austtralian Government view that the RAAF can cover us from land based fighters on the mainland, I think is very short sighted. Heavens forbid if we had to land any force outside of the flight distance of our fighters. OH wait thats when as usual we expect the Americans or Brits to get us out of the ****. Not every situation in the future will have immediate support of our allies, expecally if we have to lift not only our own, but other country's expats at short notice, among many other possibility's.
The 2009 Australian Defence White Paper stated that the Army would aquire over 1,100 "various" vehicles including APC. Would be nice to think they would be smart enought to use an "EFV" type vehicle with the new LHD capability coming, especially if we dont have anything to offer air support from the LHD, would not be to keen to try and land troops in Choppers and LCM'S without at least some basic protection for the initial forces ?
Just a thought ?
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
I understand this, I in no way think of the canberra class as an aircraft carrier, there is very much more to it than that, I am talking about the possibility for us to operate the jsf, as the USMC currently does with the harriers on the Wasp class. It is not intended for high sortie rates on an extendd period of time, but for air support of the landing force in the first instance. The Austtralian Government view that the RAAF can cover us from land based fighters on the mainland, I think is very short sighted. Heavens forbid if we had to land any force outside of the flight distance of our fighters. OH wait thats when as usual we expect the Americans or Brits to get us out of the ****. Not every situation in the future will have immediate support of our allies, expecally if we have to lift not only our own, but other country's expats at short notice, among many other possibility's.
The 2009 Australian Defence White Paper stated that the Army would aquire over 1,100 "various" vehicles including APC. Would be nice to think they would be smart enought to use an "EFV" type vehicle with the new LHD capability coming, especially if we dont have anything to offer air support from the LHD, would not be to keen to try and land troops in Choppers and LCM'S without at least some basic protection for the initial forces ?
Just a thought ?
I know it's a long way to go back, but I'd recommend re-reading this thread from about page 165 onwards. The LHDs and their utility (or lack thereof) as fast jet carriers are discussed pretty exhaustively, and some of the points discussed might interest you. Also if you search around the Navy forums there are quite a few old threads pertinent to the Canberra class. Hope you enjoy. :)
 
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