The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

windscorpion

New Member
"Kryten gun" i like it!

If they do another Red Dwarf series they can do a "I may have a head shaped like a Royal Navy gun but..." joke. :D

Is a transom flap another name for a trim tab?

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_tab"]Trim tab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Cessna-172-trim-control.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Cessna-172-trim-control.jpg/220px-Cessna-172-trim-control.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/1/10/Cessna-172-trim-control.jpg/220px-Cessna-172-trim-control.jpg[/ame]
 
Last edited:

Troothsayer

New Member
Yes, the government is due to announce several procurement issues this week (not sure of the exact day) - they'll announce it at the same time as they reveal the FRES Scout deal.
 

AndrewMI

New Member
Yes, the government is due to announce several procurement issues this week (not sure of the exact day) - they'll announce it at the same time as they reveal the FRES Scout deal.
Unless it is a concept/prelim/detailed design phase announcement it all seems rather academic with the SDR due sooner rather than later.

Without cross party concencus such projects are liable for delay/cancellation. Liam Fox, Hague and Clarke do seem to be relativly pragmatic and sensible when it comes to long term procurement. The South Atlantic and Iranian issues should help the RN's long term plans.
 

MrQuintus

New Member
The Tories would do well to propose an increase in ship building, it would be a good way of nicking a few votes in the Labour heartlands.



But they won't, I'll be happy if we manage to get astute boat 8 and the promised level of FSCs, let alone a sensible navy.
 

1805

New Member
The Tories would do well to propose an increase in ship building, it would be a good way of nicking a few votes in the Labour heartlands.



But they won't, I'll be happy if we manage to get astute boat 8 and the promised level of FSCs, let alone a sensible navy.
If I were you I would prepare to be disappointed. The 7th Astute hasn't been order and I would think there must be doubts it will be. Also if the 4 T22 do get axed, it must be highly unlikely we get more than12 T26. Despite what might be anounced by a potentialling outgoing government
 

kev 99

Member
The Tories would do well to propose an increase in ship building, it would be a good way of nicking a few votes in the Labour heartlands.



But they won't, I'll be happy if we manage to get astute boat 8 and the promised level of FSCs, let alone a sensible navy.
It would be a clever political move, but it could only work in the short term unless someone worked out how to make a successful business out of it, plus it doesn't exactly tally with all the rhetoric about cutting the deficit/UK debt.
 

AndrewMI

New Member
It would be a clever political move, but it could only work in the short term unless someone worked out how to make a successful business out of it, plus it doesn't exactly tally with all the rhetoric about cutting the deficit/UK debt.
Re: Astute boat 8 - it will depend on two key things.

1 - The state of the finances in about a decade's time - clearly there is no way of predicting this

2 - The construction schedule and timetable for Trident replacement. Which i think is due for replacement in the 2025-2035 timeframe.




Re: T-26 - a lot depends on the possible co-operation of the commonwealth nations - particulall with regard to their requirements relative to those of the RN.


The main worry is the SDR. I think there is a general feeling that we cannot cut the armed forces at the moment. Mostly this is due to Afghanistan, but also the developing situation in the South Atlantic (which will not require a major change from the crrent deployment levels) and the Middle East (esp. Iran and Yemen). All these areas need power projection capability that can only be provided by a navy.

The problem is that defence budgets are less entrenched than other things, such as the welfare state and NHS. By this i mean that a cut in defence spending has less direct effect on people than such things as cuts in welfare support, and hospital treatment levels - thus are easier to stomach politically. However they are arguably less important than retaining an ability to deal with states such as Iran.

I think the new parliament will realise this. However the next few months will be about political gesticulating and strategy.
 

1805

New Member
Re: Astute boat 8 - it will depend on two key things.

1 - The state of the finances in about a decade's time - clearly there is no way of predicting this

2 - The construction schedule and timetable for Trident replacement. Which i think is due for replacement in the 2025-2035 timeframe.

Agreed but if you believe the Defence Select Committee, current programmes are unaffordable by £36bn over 10 years. Even the MOD says £6m over the same time but they are assuming a 2.7% increas p.a. which I would say is optimistic


Re: T-26 - a lot depends on the possible co-operation of the commonwealth nations - particulall with regard to their requirements relative to those of the RN.

I don't think the RN will be flexible enough with the design to accommodate the RAN, it will then be to expensive and they will by elsewhere.

The main worry is the SDR. I think there is a general feeling that we cannot cut the armed forces at the moment. Mostly this is due to Afghanistan, but also the developing situation in the South Atlantic (which will not require a major change from the crrent deployment levels) and the Middle East (esp. Iran and Yemen). All these areas need power projection capability that can only be provided by a navy.

The problem is that defence budgets are less entrenched than other things, such as the welfare state and NHS. By this i mean that a cut in defence spending has less direct effect on people than such things as cuts in welfare support, and hospital treatment levels - thus are easier to stomach politically. However they are arguably less important than retaining an ability to deal with states such as Iran.

I think the new parliament will realise this. However the next few months will be about political gesticulating and strategy.
I can't see the MOD avoiding cuts and agree with you the Army will get priority because of Afghanistain. But the cuts may not be as bad as expected, we all seem to have discounted the cut in F35b from 138, so if we get 50 over time that maybe a good outcome. Realistically 12 T26 will probably be acceptable in 2035 and 6 Astute's is probably realistic.
 

AndrewMI

New Member
I can't see the MOD avoiding cuts and agree with you the Army will get priority because of Afghanistain. But the cuts may not be as bad as expected, we all seem to have discounted the cut in F35b from 138, so if we get 50 over time that maybe a good outcome. Realistically 12 T26 will probably be acceptable in 2035 and 6 Astute's is probably realistic.
I think it is likely the Astutes will run to at least 7. The 8th is another matter.

The F-35 procurement i agree is an area where spending can be juggled. So long as we have 30-40 in a reasonable timeframe, we can procure aditional aircraft later on so the airframe numbers are at a suitable level (accounting for wear and tear etc).

T-26 - is this purely "C1" now? Or will there be varients.
 

1805

New Member
I think it is likely the Astutes will run to at least 7. The 8th is another matter.

The F-35 procurement i agree is an area where spending can be juggled. So long as we have 30-40 in a reasonable timeframe, we can procure aditional aircraft later on so the airframe numbers are at a suitable level (accounting for wear and tear etc).

T-26 - is this purely "C1" now? Or will there be varients.
I think we will end up one class of T26 probably with some being fitted with more or less kit. The FSC may get recast with a more warlike C3 maybe like the RAN 2,000t OPV? The trouble is cost growth in the T26, the RN will gold plate which delays and make unattractive for foreign navies. By not appearing to planning for these cuts they are leaving the decision completely in the hands of the Politicans....I guess it enables them to wash their hands of mistakes and blame them later.
 

kev 99

Member
Number of Astutes is dependent on Vanguard Successor programme, if we don't get 7 then people get laid off meaning skills are lost and the first of class successor will be late and over budget, okay chances are it will anyway but even more so with a build gap in Astutes.
 

AndrewMI

New Member
Number of Astutes is dependent on Vanguard Successor programme, if we don't get 7 then people get laid off meaning skills are lost and the first of class successor will be late and over budget, okay chances are it will anyway but even more so with a build gap in Astutes.
Agreed. New SSBN will have to start construction by, say 2022.

That is 12 years.

There are 2 Astutes "completed" (or nearly completed) - two under various advanced construction stages and one that is starting to be constructed. I have no idea about long lead items for boat 6 & 7.

These would not have to be finished by 2022, but the last Astite would have to start construction by around 2020. Quite what timeframe this allows i am not sure.

The next gap to think about will be after construction of the SSBN's. The first Astute will not be due for retirement untill at least 2040.
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Still C1 & C2, but C1 comes first. As I understand it, C1 will get all the 2087 towed sonars, leaving the remaining T23s in the C2 role until C2 comes along to replace them.
I was under the impression that 2087 was on the newer T23's rather then the older ones? Plus the first ships up for replacement are the TAS-less T22B3's.
 

juliawells

Banned Member
hiiiii

If you fielded your future CSG today you would probably put a current USN CSG at the bottom. If you put your future fleet to another Falklands campaign you wouldn't lose anything.

[Mod Edit]Link to commercial site removed[/Mod Edit]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

swerve

Super Moderator
I was under the impression that 2087 was on the newer T23's rather then the older ones? Plus the first ships up for replacement are the TAS-less T22B3's.
Yes, & if published plans are followed we'll have slightly more C1 than 2087s, so the first two, replacing T22s, may well not get a TAS, at least to start with.

However, ASW is a primary role of T26. At some point, the 2087s will have to be pulled from T23s, refurbished, & fitted to T26s. While I've not seen anything definite on this, there have been quite a few hints that it won't wait for 2087-fitted T23s to retire, but will be done at refits. Well, we'll see - but not for quite a while, eh?

The eight 2087 T23s are currently scheduled to retire between 2028 & 2036. The five without should retire from 2023 to 2027.
 
Top