Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[jack412]

also it was initially a blk 1 sh, the blk 2 sh has twice the capability
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04900.pdf

 

[Todjaeger]

The inclusion of the F-15E on that list does strike me as interesting.

It seems to me like it would have made more sense to have adopted the F-15E in lieu of the F/A-18, some 20-30 years ago when the RAAF was in the market for Mirage and F-4 replacments. Now it doesn't seem to make sense to me to buy F-15Es. The Beagle is getting old. It's still useful, but I doubt it will have the longevity of the newer F-35.

As for the issue of the F-15E lacking stealth, what about the much-bandied F-15 Silent Eagle? Could this be an option? I know that its LO capability is by no means equal to that of the F-35, but it might be a workable middle ground.

Or is that still something of a pie in the sky?

It would have been very difficult to include the F-15E in the competition then... The F-15E Strike Eage was first proposed by McDonnell Douglas in 1980, but did not achieve first flight until 1986, with IOC being reached by the USAF in 1989. The first RAAF F/A-18 Hornets arrived in Australia in 1985.

IIRC the F-4 was only ever an interim aircraft for the RAAF, to cover the strike mission of the F-111 after that aircraft was found initially deficient upon delivery in ~1964. The service issues of the F-111 having been resolved to Australia's satisfaction in 1973 (again IIRC), the leased F-4s were returned.

There is sort of something to be said for having planned on replacing the F-111 in RAAF service prior to 2010. While it entered service in 1973, the RAAF airframes were ~9 years old at the time, putting them now at 46 years. Admittedly some of the ones currently in service are -G models which are somewhat newer, still, a planned replacement occuring around 1998-2000 would have been reasonable IMO. OTOH, there was still no other tactical aircraft which could deliver the same sort of performance the RAAF was getting from the F-111. It is only with the combination of improved potential threats, increased cost of operating, as well as advances in standoff weaponry that other tactical aircraft are starting to achieve the reach the F-111 had been providing.

-Cheers

 

[Aussie Digger]

It would have been very difficult to include the F-15E in the competition then... The F-15E Strike Eage was first proposed by McDonnell Douglas in 1980, but did not achieve first flight until 1986, with IOC being reached by the USAF in 1989. The first RAAF F/A-18 Hornets arrived in Australia in 1985.

IIRC the F-4 was only ever an interim aircraft for the RAAF, to cover the strike mission of the F-111 after that aircraft was found initially deficient upon delivery in ~1964. The service issues of the F-111 having been resolved to Australia's satisfaction in 1973 (again IIRC), the leased F-4s were returned.

There is sort of something to be said for having planned on replacing the F-111 in RAAF service prior to 2010. While it entered service in 1973, the RAAF airframes were ~9 years old at the time, putting them now at 46 years. Admittedly some of the ones currently in service are -G models which are somewhat newer, still, a planned replacement occuring around 1998-2000 would have been reasonable IMO. OTOH, there was still no other tactical aircraft which could deliver the same sort of performance the RAAF was getting from the F-111. It is only with the combination of improved potential threats, increased cost of operating, as well as advances in standoff weaponry that other tactical aircraft are starting to achieve the reach the F-111 had been providing.

-Cheers

The -G model F-111's were retired some years ago in 2007, IIRC. We've been running -C models ever since.

The replacement of the F-111 should have occurred at the same time as the USAF decided it was a good idea, in the early 90's and we would most likely have had a "run off" between F/A-18C/D "Night Attack" Hornets, with new aerial refuelling capability in-service much quicker than present arrangements and the F-15E, with or perhaps without the new refuelling capability.

Either way, would have resulted in no Super Hornets seeing service in RAAF and would have neatly side-stepped any "capability" gap issues. It was multiple Government funding failures and probably ADF not pushing hard enough, that led to the F-111 being dragged along much past it's use by date...

 

[Todjaeger]

The -G model F-111's were retired some years ago in 2007, IIRC. We've been running -C models ever since.

The replacement of the F-111 should have occurred at the same time as the USAF decided it was a good idea, in the early 90's and we would most likely have had a "run off" between F/A-18C/D "Night Attack" Hornets, with new aerial refuelling capability in-service much quicker than present arrangements and the F-15E, with or perhaps without the new refuelling capability.

Either way, would have resulted in no Super Hornets seeing service in RAAF and would have neatly side-stepped any "capability" gap issues. It was multiple Government funding failures and probably ADF not pushing hard enough, that led to the F-111 being dragged along much past it's use by date...

Interesting... I had thought some of the -G airframes were converted over to be operational as -C (9?) models, in addition to those that had been used for traing and parts.

As an interesting hypothetical question, which aircraft would people have chosen for the F-111 replacement, if it had occurred during the 1990's? In addition, what sort of impact would the aircraft selection have on RAAF OrBat at present and in the future?

-Cheers

 

[Aussie Digger]

Interesting... I had thought some of the -G airframes were converted over to be operational as -C (9?) models, in addition to those that had been used for traing and parts.

As an interesting hypothetical question, which aircraft would people have chosen for the F-111 replacement, if it had occurred during the 1990's? In addition, what sort of impact would the aircraft selection have on RAAF OrBat at present and in the future?

-Cheers

Not that I recall. I remember that the -C models were re-winged in the 90's but I don't recall the -G's being converted to -C's. That would have taken an enormous modification program...

I would have chosen the Night Attack Hornets and KC-135R air refuelling aircraft from the mid-90's.

I'm not all that impressed by the lack of range argument, but the commonality with our Tactical Fighter Force would have offered significant savings whilst still providing good capability. It may have also been possible to significantly reduce the need for CBR and HUG with additional C/D Hornet purchases in the late 90's along with a more modest HUG of A/B model airframes to see them out. RAAF would then not be in any current trouble with delays to the F-35 program, as it would have had a fleet capable of providing good operational capability until the early-mid 2020's.

An introduction of a dedicated SEAD capability from the C/D Hornets including the HARM missile system, along with the aforementioned KC-135R's would have been the capability "trade off" for me and would remain an un-matched capability within our region even today.

 

[t68]

And you don't think that cross training doesn't come with any financial or time penalty?

Cross training has many benefits in a small Air force like the RAAF; the skill set is in place now the only time penalty is training on the F35A when it arrives maintenance expenditure has to be spent no matter which aircraft we have.

Poor argument, different missions, therefore that question doesn't come up.

That’s in relation to the RAAF, if you want it in a current time frame one only has to look at the USN they plan on use SH and F35C together well into 2035 time frame and possibly beyond depending on advance’s in unmanned platforms, looking at the RAF using different types of aircraft together to form a multi layered mix of aircraft in their latest procurement of Typhoon F2 and F35B in the future which is to be operated by both RAF and RN.

 

[xtemujin]

Are there news in Australia that the RAAF F111 that were grounded in Singapore during the Singapore Airshow 2010 are back in Australia ?

We've a report from a local member here in Singapore that the F111 left Singapore on 270210(Sat).

Thanks.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Are there news in Australia that the RAAF F111 that were grounded in Singapore during the Singapore Airshow 2010 are back in Australia ?

We've a report from a local member here in Singapore that the F111 left Singapore on 270210(Sat).

Thanks.

Haven't heard any reports, but I expect they are. Singapore isn't that far from Australia...

The release for flying operations was granted again late last week, I believe.

 

[xtemujin]

Glad to see the F111 last two dump and burn in Asia, Malaysia and Singapore.

I concur, Singapore and Malaysia are not far from Australia.

Thanks for the heads up.

Cheers.

Haven't heard any reports, but I expect they are. Singapore isn't that far from Australia...

The release for flying operations was granted again late last week, I believe.

 

[t68]

News reports coming out now are say the first four or five F/A18F Super Hornets should be here at end of month, second batch here 2011. Good to see that they are finally here soon, would be nice to see them come but they would be going to RAAF Amberley i presume.

RAAF unveils Super Hornet jet fighter

RAAF Air force site has Super hornet list as part of the NO 1 Squadron already quick to update!!

http://www.airforce.gov.au/bases/amberley.aspx

 

[jack412]

i saw a photo of #206 flying, so my guess will be 5-6 of the 7 so far, with one left in the us for test/devel as has been stated

 

[Aussie Digger]

i saw a photo of #206 flying, so my guess will be 5-6 of the 7 so far, with one left in the us for test/devel as has been stated

It is my understanding that the first 4x aircraft will be departing Calinfornia for Australia on the 19th of March 2010, arriving at RAAF Amberley on the 21st of March 2010 (due to time zone differences).

Can't find the link to the place I read that, but Defence will be updating as the date gets closer.

The first new combat aircraft for RAAF in over 25 years, is a fairly big deal...

 

[gf0012-aust]

It is my understanding that the first 4x aircraft will be departing Calinfornia for Australia on the 19th of March 2010, arriving at RAAF Amberley on the 21st of March 2010 (due to time zone differences).

At some point they will be escorting POTUS into australia...

 

[Aussie Digger]

At some point they will be escorting POTUS into australia...

Apparently that has been officially debunked, as much as I would like to see it. "Zed" stated publicly within the last 24hrs that they would not be escorting Obama, so unless that has changed???

It would also mean they are able to carry live ordnance and I'm not sure they can, yet...

On a humorous note, if they do, Obama better hope there's no SU-30's flying nearby, he'll stand NO chance...

 

[jack412]

It is my understanding that the first 4x aircraft will be departing Calinfornia for Australia on the 19th of March 2010, arriving at RAAF Amberley on the 21st of March 2010 (due to time zone differences).

Can't find the link to the place I read that, but Defence will be updating as the date gets closer.

The first new combat aircraft for RAAF in over 25 years, is a fairly big deal...

ok, tar, gunna feel like xmass morning, shame its not sale, i've got a B.I.L there, could of popped over for a visit

"On a humorous note, if they do, Obama better hope there's no SU-30's flying nearby, he'll stand NO chance... "

there would be so many toys on airforce 1, its probably escorting the sh

 

[gf0012-aust]

Apparently that has been officially debunked, as much as I would like to see it. "Zed" stated publicly within the last 24hrs that they would not be escorting Obama, so unless that has changed???

I haven't seen it, but I did find it odd that the USG would allow foreign jets to do an armed escort of their boss.

I did note however that the press did at least manage not to misspell zed's surname this time...

It would also mean they are able to carry live ordnance and I'm not sure they can, yet...

CREF above

On a humorous note, if they do, Obama better hope there's no SU-30's flying nearby, he'll stand NO chance...

ah yes, APA must be hoping that some rogue indonesian jet jockey goes postal just to satisfy their wet dream scenarios.....

 

[t68]

I just read an article in the Australian newspaper that once the F111 are retired they have put out a tender to scrap them, is the government that hard up for saving in the ADF that they have get money for scrap and not donate them to the RSL or who ever would like them as gate guards, surely some have been earmarked for site around Australia such as Wagga Wagga with there collection of gate guards also there fighter town in RAAF Williamstown and the war memorial, Temora air museum but you get my drift.

When the Australian questioned the ADF no answer was given, Rudds a penny pinching P$#ck

 

[Aussie Digger]

I just read an article in the Australian newspaper that once the F111 are retired they have put out a tender to scrap them, is the government that hard up for saving in the ADF that they have get money for scrap and not donate them to the RSL or who ever would like them as gate guards, surely some have been earmarked for site around Australia such as Wagga Wagga with there collection of gate guards also there fighter town in RAAF Williamstown and the war memorial, Temora air museum but you get my drift.

When the Australian questioned the ADF no answer was given, Rudds a penny pinching P$#ck

3 words: End User Certificates...

Perhaps they should put former nuclear strike bombers out the front of RSL's, but unfortunately it isn't that simple...

 

[Bonza]

I just read an article in the Australian newspaper that once the F111 are retired they have put out a tender to scrap them, is the government that hard up for saving in the ADF that they have get money for scrap and not donate them to the RSL or who ever would like them as gate guards, surely some have been earmarked for site around Australia such as Wagga Wagga with there collection of gate guards also there fighter town in RAAF Williamstown and the war memorial, Temora air museum but you get my drift.

When the Australian questioned the ADF no answer was given, Rudds a penny pinching P$#ck

There's an F-111G at Point Cook RAAF Museum, and an F-111C on the way there. The tender is for scrapping the Gs, from what I understand there are specific conditions governing their disposal due to their being nuclear-capable while in USAF service, before we got them (any informed folks out there who can confirm this?).

The Cs are another story, as the tender for scrapping only includes the Gs. Hope that helps!

edit: not only did you confirm what I heard AD, you did it before I even posted. You don't mess around!

 

[gf0012-aust]

they're FMS items so as such they're still subject to USG imprimatur when finished with.