Pakistan Army News and Discussions

[SURB]

User 'surb', please refrain from using jingoistic Indian media sources relating to information on Pakistan Army and its operation-related issues.

I don't want to flame this thread with the discussion of nationalism,Can you please consider adopting a less confrontational and adversarial approach at this point (towards indian press).I know that exaggeration, enthusiasm and rhetoric can destroy a serious debate.

Compared to NATO/ISAF & American forces across the border in Afghanistan, the Pakistan Army has fared much well and has managed to capture and hold ground by routing Taliban militias authoritatively.

No questions to the commitment of Pakistan army they are doing pretty good.

On a related note, the current focus of the American 'surge' in Afghanistan is to make Pakistan Army do most of the fighting by driving militants across the border in to Pakistan from Afghanistan. This a great strategy for masking U.S/ISAF failures and putting them in Pakistan's basket.

well Talibans are now more concentrated on afghan side of PAK-AFGHAN border;from Pakistani side they are on the run,American surge policy is the result of successful headon approach of Pakistan towards Taliban.
U.S/ISAF are now following dual policy of dialogue and headon apprach,the latter will certainly increase their losses.

 

[ghanz]

Pakistan Army is operating regular helicopter flights in war against Taliban and most of them look very old except cobra's. Does anyone know if Pakistan Army is looking to buy new helicopters. If they are what are the chances of them going for Z-9 for transport and its attack version.

 

[aaaditya]

Pakistan Army is operating regular helicopter flights in war against Taliban and most of them look very old except cobra's. Does anyone know if Pakistan Army is looking to buy new helicopters. If they are what are the chances of them going for Z-9 for transport and its attack version.

isnt z-9 the chinese version of the dauphin,if so then what is the point of going for a relatively old design when more modern ones are available in the market.

also i would like to know wether pakistan army operates the sikorsky blackhawk helicopter?

 

[shag]

isnt z-9 the chinese version of the dauphin,if so then what is the point of going for a relatively old design when more modern ones are available in the market.

also i would like to know wether pakistan army operates the sikorsky blackhawk helicopter?

That might be true but Pakistan gets much better deals in defence equipment from China(with easy loans etc.) than from any other country. (You could say with possible exception of US now, since US has been providing the large military aid.)

 

[SURB]

Pakistan Army is operating regular helicopter flights in war against Taliban and most of them look very old except cobra's. Does anyone know if Pakistan Army is looking to buy new helicopters. If they are what are the chances of them going for Z-9 for transport and its attack version.

isnt z-9 the chinese version of the dauphin,if so then what is the point of going for a relatively old design when more modern ones are available in the market.

also i would like to know wether pakistan army operates the sikorsky blackhawk helicopter?

That might be true but Pakistan gets much better deals in defence equipment from China(with easy loans etc.) than from any other country. (You could say with possible exception of US now, since US has been providing the large military aid.)

Who told you that the army is going to buy the modified Z-9 for counter terrorisim.That is not the case and the answer is a big "no" .Thats been already discussed some where but again they showed interest in eurocopter,what happened after it is as follows, please see this link;

France to Give Eurocopter Tiger Helicopters to Pakistan | Pro-Pakistan

Neighter they operate the sikorsky blackhawks. :smooth
Well military deals with china really go smooth most of the time but it matters only when the instruments required by Pakistan are on display.
Z-9ec was a naval requirement so they got the deal signed,Army isn't interested in their modified versiont.

 

[shag]

Tigre is a good choice. But has it been finalised? How many pieces is pakistan looking at?
while I don't doubt the news, the source website you quoted is a little in doubt. Got a better source for this?

 

[SURB]

Tigre is a good choice. But has it been finalised? How many pieces is pakistan looking at?
while I don't doubt the news, the source website you quoted is a little in doubt. Got a better source for this?

Check the table in this reference,
Pakistan Army: Facts, Discussion Forum, and Encyclopedia Article
It says EurocopterTiger 18 Being inducted ; exact numbers and the date of induction is not known to me,but yeah they will soon be inducted.

 

[shag]

Check the table in this reference,
Pakistan Army: Facts, Discussion Forum, and Encyclopedia Article
It says EurocopterTiger 18 Being inducted ; exact numbers and the date of induction is not known to me,but yeah they will soon be inducted.

ohh absolute astronomy is not a source. these guys use a bot that just parse wikipedia articles and create a copy page. you will see that the page is a copy of wiki page on pakistan army. Sorry to pester you on this. but how bout a news article in dawn or something? was there any news in pakistani or european media?

 

[shag]

ohh absolute astronomy is not a source. these guys use a bot that just parse wikipedia articles and create a copy page. you will see that the page is a copy of wiki page on pakistan army. Sorry to pester you on this. but how bout a news article in dawn or something? was there any news in pakistani or european media?

Ok I found this one.
DAWN.COM | Pakistan | France to provide combat copters

but it doesn't state any firm intent or numbers.

 

[SURB]

How many pieces is pakistan looking at?

ohh absolute astronomy is not a source. these guys use a bot that just parse wikipedia articles and create a copy page. you will see that the page is a copy of wiki page on pakistan army. Sorry to pester you on this. but how bout a news article in dawn or something? was there any news in pakistani or european media?

The second source i quoted was just to estimate the number of pieces Pak army getting ( same as wikipedia says about 18-25 ) ...........for the news part of it i had full confidence in my first source; and about numbers i am not that much confident.
i opted for the number in this link(which i never found elsewhere) and highlighted them.
Now any body interested in numbers discussion,i expect the quantity will increase keeping in mind the aging fleet of Cobras.

 

[SURB]

Indian army chief threatened Pakistan & China.He stated about a two front war.The question is are the Pakistani armed forces espacially the army ready to face this front ;they are still busy in war against terrorism ,indian military and media both are creating a war hysteria and for them it's good time to stab on the back when Pakistan army is dealing with the western side of the border.
reference:
Indian WAR Threats: Irresponsible statement | Pakistan Daily
And another question which arises in my mind is that can indian forces face two fronts ,both china and pakistan at a time,if not what was the purpose of such a statement from Indian chief?

 

[funtz]

Indian army chief threatened Pakistan & China.

He stated about a two front war.The question is are the Pakistani armed forces espacially the army ready to face this front ;they are still busy in war against terrorism ,indian military and media both are creating a war hysteria and for them it's good time to stab on the back when Pakistan army is dealing with the western side of the border.
reference:
Indian WAR Threats: Irresponsible statement | Pakistan Daily

And another question which arises in my mind is that can indian forces face two fronts ,both china and pakistan at a time,if not what was the purpose of such a statement from Indian chief?

The statement was made as a part of a academic discussions, and the "army chief" or the army or the entire Indian Military does not make the decisions to start any offensive action, that is done by the political arm of government, elected by the people the military has no role to play, rest assured the military can not implement a war plan without the express instructions of the civilian elected leadership.

As war plans go, they think about a lot of possible scenarios, this is one of them (a possible two front war, not necessarily an offensive war), Pakistan military will also have several such scenarios.

 

[SURB]

Pakistan military will also have several such scenarios.

Is there any chances of both pakistani and chinese army fighting side by side against indians; currently there are no such threats to india.History also supports this point during the china -india war (1962), Pakistan remained neutral.
Such a sweeping statement against two nuclear states is ridiculous i would say.

 

[funtz]

Is there any chances of both pakistani and chinese army fighting side by side against indians; currently there are no such threats to india.History also supports this point during the china -india war (1962), Pakistan remained neutral.
Such a sweeping statement against two nuclear states is ridiculous i would say.

Well its 2010, some 48 years of difference here, so as you can imagine the threat analysis would change in such a long time period.

Its not a sweeping statement, a sweeping statement would be given by the politicians, through proper channels, this was a discussion in a forum meant to envision threats that might come up in the future and ways to deal with it, its a long process of analyzing and sometimes validating such plans through military exercises.

You still fail to understand the forum and the context of the statement, it was a statement about a war plan.
Its not going to happen, however organisations do think of such possibilities.

It seems you have not even read what was said to begin with, the discussion was based around a possiblity where the Indian military forces are tasked with carrying out a military campaign against Pakistan (as a result of either offensive or defensive circumstances), where the military has to provide a deterrence against any military intervention into this campaign by PRC, this would require a division of forces towards the two borders and a very fast military campaign which doesn't initiate a nuclear response.

 

[SURB]

It seems you have not even read what was said to begin with, the discussion was based around a possiblity where the Indian military forces are tasked with carrying out a military campaign against Pakistan (as a result of either offensive or defensive circumstances), where the military has to provide a deterrence against any military intervention into this campaign by PRC, this would require a division of forces towards the two borders and a very fast military campaign which doesn't initiate a nuclear response.

Well they should better prepare for nuclear war because limited conventional war is out of question as far as Pakistan is concerned. and PAK army is not following the policy of offence.
I don't know about china's policy (somebody from china should shed light on this).

 

[SURB]

Pakistan army getting Shadow drones from USA .On his visit to Pakistan Gates commited drones will be provided to Pakistan.About 12 pieces are been expected to be delivered to Pak army.
Here is the news article.

The United States plans to provide Pakistan with a dozen unarmed drone aircraft that will help bolster its military as it takes on Taliban militants, US defence officials said.
Details of the drones emerged late Thursday during a visit to Pakistan by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who was asked in an interview with Pakistani television if Washington would supply Islamabad with the unmanned aircraft.
"There are some tactical UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) that we are considering, yes," Gates said.
Defence officials in his delegation afterward confirmed funds had been set aside to secure 12 Shadow aerial drones for Pakistan.
The Shadow drones, smaller than the armed Predator and Reaper aircraft, are about 11 feet (three metres) long and have a wing-span of 14-feet, with sensors and cameras feeding video images back to operators on the ground.
The Pakistani military already had some less sophisticated drones for surveillance but would need to heavily invest in training specialists to be able to take advantage of the new hardware, said US officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The US employs armed drones for missile strikes against Al-Qaeda and Taliban figures in Pakistan, fuelling anti-American sentiment and drawing public condemnation from the government in Islamabad.
Pakistani officials have previously called for Washington to provide its military with armed drones.

 

[ProudPakistani]

But Pakistani Army didn't got the predators which could actually hit those terrorists . If it were for the intelligance regarding the location of the HV targets Pakistan had those local drones and some ground assets placed . What we were asking for was Predetor which could really blow up those terrorists by firing the hellfire .. Unfortunately the trust deficit btw Pakistan and US came into play in the descition regarding the Armed Predators ...!

 

[funtz]

Well they should better prepare for nuclear war because limited conventional war is out of question as far as Pakistan is concerned. and PAK army is not following the policy of offence.
I don't know about china's policy (somebody from china should shed light on this).

At the point when offensive action starts Indian and Pakistani military will be busy in both offence and defence, grabbing land for an edge in post war negotiations, that has been the way all wars have been fought, and it doesnot look like the situation will change anytime soon.

As i understand the Pakistani nuclear option has been stated many times as the weapon to ensure the territorial integrity of Pakistan, which is to say that India should not be able to start a war to divide Pakistan, the aim of Indian Military doctrine stated in that news report you quoted some posts back is to stop short of a posture where the territorial integrity of Pakistan is in danger, i suppose another way to put it would be grabbing some land quickly and then off to the negotiations.

Even in a situation where Pakistan faces a offensive military action choosing nuclear option as the only available option seems a stretch to me, that can lead to a situation where it might become difficult for the government of Pakistan to sustain the nation in its current territorial form, similarly for the Indian government a prolonged military campaign or a deep push into Pakistan will present similar challenges.

A limited conventional war did happen a decade ago, although there is controversy over the availability of nuclear option back then.

 

[SURB]

But Pakistani Army didn't got the predators which could actually hit those terrorists . If it were for the intelligance regarding the location of the HV targets Pakistan had those local drones and some ground assets placed . What we were asking for was Predetor which could really blow up those terrorists by firing the hellfire .. Unfortunately the trust deficit btw Pakistan and US came into play in the descition regarding the Armed Predators ...!

yeah but unfortunately our UAVs are also not at par with the USA shadow drones either.I am not an expert,but the experts consider it a better option for Pakistan to take.

 

[SURB]

At the point when offensive action starts Indian and Pakistani military will be busy in both offence and defence, grabbing land for an edge in post war negotiations, that has been the way all wars have been fought, and it doesnot look like the situation will change anytime soon.

As i understand the Pakistani nuclear option has been stated many times as the weapon to ensure the territorial integrity of Pakistan, which is to say that India should not be able to start a war to divide Pakistan, the aim of Indian Military doctrine stated in that news report you quoted some posts back is to stop short of a posture where the territorial integrity of Pakistan is in danger, i suppose another way to put it would be grabbing some land quickly and then off to the negotiations.

Even in a situation where Pakistan faces a offensive military action choosing nuclear option as the only available option seems a stretch to me, that can lead to a situation where it might become difficult for the government of Pakistan to sustain the nation in its current territorial form, similarly for the Indian government a prolonged military campaign or a deep push into Pakistan will present similar challenges.

A limited conventional war did happen a decade ago, although there is controversy over the availability of nuclear option back then.

The war phenomenon of today will not be a lazy process ,keeping in mind the efficient delivery system both countries have it will not take 72 or 96 hours to grab a piece of land and then negotiate to diffuse the situation.