Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Originally Posted by hairyman
The only items of equipment that we are not buying that I would consider under this premise, is the Su34, which to my mind is the best replacement for the F111 available, but since it is Russian, we wont have a bar of it, unfortunately. We already buy equipment from other countries beside the US, with the recent lease of the Heron from Israel, our european helcopters and tankers.
This was posted on the Naval Thread. I have transferred it to here for appropriate discussion.
IMO the most significant reasons why there is no direct, exact replacement for the mission/role the F-111 played in the RAAF is that it was a mission which was ceasing to exist.

The F-111 was originally acquired with the idea that they would serve as delivery systems for atomic/nuclear weaponry, thus they needed sufficient range to reach potential threat nations (largely Indonesia) and the ability to evade detection and/or escape hostile aircraft.

By the time they actually entered service (c.~1973 IIRC) Australia had signed the NPT prior to domestic development of nuclear weapons, therefore the nuclear delivery role ceased to exist. Instead, they were roled with a similar albeit conventional strike role.

Fast forward nearly four decades and look at the systems which have been developed which can aid the defender. There has been significant improvement in both the performance and variety of sensors available. This means that how the F-111 used to evade detection, by low-level flight, will not work as well. Additionally, there is a greater utilization of datalinks and airborne sensing platforms, which means that if/when the strike package is detected, its presence is more apt to be relayed to forces which can act against it. There are greater numbers of very high speed aircraft capable of interecepting the F-111, along with significantly greater numbers of high speed BVR missiles, which means that the F-111 is less able to escape when engaged. In short, the F-111 is no longer able to deliver a strike package to a target without escort in contested airspace. IMO the same situation holds true for the Su-34, or any other similar sort of aircraft that does not have significant improvements in its ability to either evade detection, and/or escape if detected.

Now looking at the other side of development, there has been significant development in aircraft which evade detection through sensor and sig management. These aircraft, known as Low Observable (LO) aircraft, when properly employed are still able to close with or in some cases penetrate defended airspace without triggering a response from the defender. Additionally, with the expansion of the types of guidance available the use of PGMs has expanded drastically and at the same time reduced the quantity of ordnance which must be dropped to achieve the desired effect. For example, in WWII if a bridge had to be dropped, an entire bomber squadron or perhaps bomber group might be tasked with the mission, and depending on their performance they might be tasked with the same mission repeatedly over several days. With current weaponry available aboard modern strike aircraft, a single aircraft can usually accomplish the mission in one pass, sometimes using just one bomb or PGM. Related to and expanding the impact of PGMs is the use of standoff weaponry. A strike aircraft no longer needs to get close to the target in order to successfully carry out the mission. Instead, the striking aircraft can now launch standoff weaponry at the target from dozens to hundreds of km away. All of which means the defender has less chance of know what the actual target is, making defence more difficult. It also reduces the time which the strike aircraft is exposed to detection and/or interception and the subsequent effect that has on mission survivability.

In short, the RAAF has found that there are better ways of doing what it wants/needs done which had not been available before.

What would be interesting to see is if a new dedicated strike aircraft along the lines of the suggested FB-22 would be of interest to the RAAF. Namely something that is LO, has significant ordnance delivery capacity, and sufficient range to bomb targets directly as well as use standoff munitions.

-Cheers
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
the chinese Jh-7 could also replace the F-111. although it has a smaller payload. the australians can also purchase the eurofighter to strenghthen thei strike force:dance
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Before anyone else posts.

Lets not have this post deteriorate into some idiotic shopping list without any consideration given as to why countries like australia make platform selection decisions.

Tactical procurement involves strategic decision making. Countries don't make tactical procurement decisions without referencing other critical input areas.

again, as a small example, there is no point looking at plane vs plane comparisons when we look at overall system integration, force integration, allied interoperability issues, other force influences (eg WGS)..

There is no way that we are going to look at aircraft such as the JH-7. Why would we even consider pulling in a platform that has no integration, would be a support orphan, where we don't have a strategic relationship with the seller etc etc...

lets get serious people. this is not something that is discussed lightly.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
I agree that there is still a requirement for RAAF to have a strategic/strike bomber in the in size of an F111.

On paper it still stands as formidable strategic/strike bomber that is available that can deliver a sizeable amount of ordnance long range, but with the march of time its avionic suite is obsolete .i believe it could have been upgraded with considerable expense and possible turned into another sea sprite affair. Look at the B52 how many times has it been upgraded and still of use to the USAF and will still be flying when they are one hundred years old nearly, granted they not in the same league as an F111, but it is what can be achieved to an aircraft that there is nothing to really replace it with.

As it stand’s the F111 is to be retired and replaced by the Super Hornet it primary design is of a multi role fighter aircraft, its combat radius is half of an F111 and half the amount of ordnance, the Super has more hard point’s to carry a more variety of weapons on any given mission and is able to defended itself in an air to air engagement, but unfortunately has the need of either drop tank’s or air to air refuelling witch in turn mean’s more aircraft to protect the refuelling platform. Don’t get me wrong i believe Super Hornet is the best possible fit for the RAAF to replace F111 with but it should not stop it from looking at other platforms such is FB-22.on paper it seem the most logical fit into a RAAF doctrine.

But one could also argue that it is not necessary with the planed arrival of TacTom on next gen submarine, it could take the place of a strategic bomber force. I believe Australia should partnership the United States in co development of the FB-22 in the same way we are with F35.

What has to be looked at is the amount in cost per TacTom missile in any given future scenario with witch Australia has to expend it TacTom ordnance against with developing a strategic bomber force with cheaper ordnance to expend and could be readily be replaced with stocks in Australia.

Depending on the size of the conflict it might not be appropriate for Australia to use it’s supply of TacTom depending on how much war stock Australia has in reserve and the time limit’s it could be replaced from the United States, or it’s availability from the US to meet it own needs let alone Australia’s.
 
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t68

Well-Known Member
Does any know if the RAAF is going to use AGM-84h SLAM-ER on Super Hornet or will AIM-120 AMRAAM suffice for a Standoff Land Attack Missile?
 

ddub321

New Member
Does any know if the RAAF is going to use AGM-84h SLAM-ER on Super Hornet or will AIM-120 AMRAAM suffice for a Standoff Land Attack Missile?

since the AIM-120 is an Air-to-Air missile, i would suspect it won't suffice as a stand off land attack missile...

Super Hornets will carry JASSM if i'm not mistaken...
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Does any know if the RAAF is going to use AGM-84h SLAM-ER on Super Hornet or will AIM-120 AMRAAM suffice for a Standoff Land Attack Missile?
AND

since the AIM-120 is an Air-to-Air missile, i would suspect it won't suffice as a stand off land attack missile...

Super Hornets will carry JASSM if i'm not mistaken...
Correct, the AIM-120 AMRAAM is an air to air missile, therefore it does not provide a land attack capability. It is possible that a replacement missile for the AMRAAM might provide a land attack capability. IIRC the name was something JDRAAM, and was something along the lines of an AMRAAM equipped with a multi-mode seeker allowing use against airborne and ground targets, with the intention of the missile replacing both the AMRAAM and HARM.

At present I believe the current plan is to have the SHornets carrying Harpoon Block II instead of SLAM-ER, as the Block II's can also be used by the RAN. The JASSM was to be fitted to the HUG Bugs not the SHornets, as the USN is not doing development work to fit JASSM onto its SHornets, which means the RAAF would be solely responsible for the systems integration on aircraft it only plans on operating for ~10 years.

Once the F-35 enters service though, the situation will become significantly better, as essentially the full range of air-launched standoff munitions will be available.

As for there not currently being a 'real' replacement for the F-111, as I had posted earlier, yes and no. Currently there is no other aircraft in service anywhere (absent strategic bombers like the B-1 and perhaps Tu-160...) which has the range, speed and ordnance capacity of the F-111. What people keep overlooking is that the F-111 is no longer able to actually cover that distance with ordnance without escort. This means that the formerly vaunted range of the F-111 is now limited by the range of its escorting fighters. This is where multi-role fighters like the SHornet or F-35 come into their own, because they are capable of self-escort. Also, being newer aircraft (with corresponding effect on maintenance & upgrades) they are able to use standoff weaponry to achieve ranges which the F-111 no longer can due to the limitations of its escorts.

Where things become interesting is if the FB-22 or something like it enters production and is available to the RAAF, would it be worth the RAAF getting any? That I honestly am not sure on. Assuming it does have a combat range of ~1,600 miles, and can carry one (or more) JASSM-ER, preferably internally, that would give the RAAF an unrefueled strike range of ~2,100 miles. That should be sufficient to hit targets on the mainland Southeast Asia in Malaysia and possibly into Thailand as well. Could the RAAF put such an aircraft to use, certainly. What I am not certain of is whether there is sufficient justification for what it would cost, as well as the political, military and diplomatic implications would be.

IIRC Indonesia was less than happy and groused about a possible arms race starting when it was announced that the RAAF would be getting a new long-range standoff missile (Harpoon Block II I believe) as part of the interim F-111 replacement. Having a mid-range LO strike aircraft enter service IMO would trigger a number of ASEAN countries would likely either immediate become very friendly with Australia, or cause them to begin building up their militaries. This in turn would likely cause regional neighbors to expand their militaries in response...

Something to think about at least.

-Cheers
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
since the AIM-120 is an Air-to-Air missile, i would suspect it won't suffice as a stand off land attack missile...

Super Hornets will carry JASSM if i'm not mistaken...
The Supers will use AGM-154 JSOW to provide standoff attack capability. JASSM I understand will not be integrated onto the Supers and nor will Harpoon as USN does not use Harpoon on it's Supers, having the superior SLAM-ER missile system.

The RAAF's JSOW's will have a maritime attack mode fitted to them as well as a land based moving target attack capability, offering a significantly flexible weapon, without significant integration efforts.

With the Hornets mounting JASSM and Harpoon Block II, the combined RAAF strike capability will be high indeed...
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
The Supers will use AGM-154 JSOW to provide standoff attack capability. JASSM I understand will not be integrated onto the Supers and nor will Harpoon as USN does not use Harpoon on it's Supers, having the superior SLAM-ER missile system.

The RAAF's JSOW's will have a maritime attack mode fitted to them as well as a land based moving target attack capability, offering a significantly flexible weapon, without significant integration efforts.

With the Hornets mounting JASSM and Harpoon Block II, the combined RAAF strike capability will be high indeed...
I will need to check that. I had thought that the Harpoon Block II was an upgrade which incorporated the capabilities of the normal Harpoon AShM with the land-attack capabilities of the SLAM-ER. Or perhaps I had been thinking of the now defunct Harpoon Block III programme...

-Cheers

Edit: Confirmed, the Harpoon Block II has the guidance features of the Harpoon AShM (Block I) and adds the software, mission computer, integrated GPS/INS and GPS antenna from the SLAM-ER. Source: Boeing

Also, according to the Boeing info, the Harpoon Block II is able to operate from all platforms currently using Harpon, either using the existing command & launch equipment or the new Advanced Harpoon Weapon Control System.
 
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Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
Fast forward nearly four decades and look at the systems which have been developed which can aid the defender. There has been significant improvement in both the performance and variety of sensors available. This means that how the F-111 used to evade detection, by low-level flight, will not work as well. Additionally, there is a greater utilization of datalinks and airborne sensing platforms, which means that if/when the strike package is detected, its presence is more apt to be relayed to forces which can act against it. There are greater numbers of very high speed aircraft capable of interecepting the F-111, along with significantly greater numbers of high speed BVR missiles, which means that the F-111 is less able to escape when engaged. In short, the F-111 is no longer able to deliver a strike package to a target without escort in contested airspace. IMO the same situation holds true for the Su-34, or any other similar sort of aircraft that does not have significant improvements in its ability to either evade detection, and/or escape if detected.
Just to add I think the major advantage the Su-34 has over the F-111 is the platform can effectively self escort, which is a significant plus. The Fullback can deal with an enemy fighter threat; the Aardvark most certainly cannot. I think of that platform more like an F-15E on steroids than an F-111, it’s certainly miles behind the F-35A in terms of capability.

Again I dont think the SU-34 is a realistic possibility, the procurement and through life support issues alone rule it out, forget about weapons commonality or integration into the current force structure.
 
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Aussie Digger

Guest
I will need to check that. I had thought that the Harpoon Block II was an upgrade which incorporated the capabilities of the normal Harpoon AShM with the land-attack capabilities of the SLAM-ER. Or perhaps I had been thinking of the now defunct Harpoon Block III programme...

-Cheers

Edit: Confirmed, the Harpoon Block II has the guidance features of the Harpoon AShM (Block I) and adds the software, mission computer, integrated GPS/INS and GPS antenna from the SLAM-ER. Source: Boeing

Also, according to the Boeing info, the Harpoon Block II is able to operate from all platforms currently using Harpon, either using the existing command & launch equipment or the new Advanced Harpoon Weapon Control System.
Agreed,

But I am of the belief that Supers don't carry Harpoon 1C OR Block II in USN service, only the legacy Hornets do... I can't justify this belief at present with a link, but I'm working on it...

The RAAF website is of course no help. It simply copied the very old weapons list for the F/A-18A/B's, which haven't been correct for years (Hornets still operate Sparrow and AIM-9M, but not JDAM or ASRAAM?) and the Super Hornet doesn't use the M61 20mm gun, but rather an evolved variant...
 

the road runner

Active Member
Just to add ,A quote from Wing Commander Glen Braz RAAF, from Defence Today Magazine Volume7 number 4 Article by Nigel Pittaway.

Super Hornets weapons package for RAAF 82 Sqn..

"Weapons to be fielded on delivery include the Raython AIM-120AMRAAM and AIM-9X Sidewinder Missles.MK80 series Bombs(with both paveway laser and JDAM GPS guidence kits),AGM-84 Harpoon and Raython AGM-154-C Joint stand off weapon.JSOW will be upgraded to AGM-154-C-1 standard after IOC is acheived end -2010"

Aussie Digger i am under the impression from the above Quote that the Supers will have AGM-84 Harpoons,but the article dosent state if its Block 1 or Block 2 variant.

Hope this helps.....
 
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Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
The following is just a rant/speculation so please correct me on any glaring errors or oversimplifications.

I don't think we're going to see a replacement for the F-111 besides the Supers and subsequently F-35. It seems some people are looking at alternatives based solely on how closely "platform x" resembles the F-111 in terms of various aircraft performance parameters.

This is a mistake, because it assumes that the F-111 offers something for which there must be a direct, and similar, replacement. The F-111 fleet was a strategically significant asset in our region (although my understanding of strategic stuff is pretty simplistic so everyone feel free to slap me round on this point if I get my details wrong), so rather than comparing specifications of aircraft in the search for an alternative, look at the strategic needs addressed by the F-111, and then consider the other ways in which such needs can be addressed. For example, it's been indicated that Australia's future submarine will have a cruise missile capability.

Bearing that future capability in mind, consider the original F-111 procurement. It was strategically significant because it gave us the capacity to, if necessary, exert force against hostile nations over the great distances associated with our region. Not only that, but the speeds and attack profiles associated with the F-111 made it (at the time) a very difficult aircraft to intercept before it had hit its targets.

So the capability was in essence one of heavy strike at long distances, and a measure of assurance (due in the F-111's case to the difficulty of intercepting the thing) that such a strike can be carried out successfully. This isn't all the F-111 offers of course - but it is this capability which I feel is the source of so much speculation and debate on how to replace the aircraft.

Does this capability have to come from an aircraft? To return to a previous example, a submarine equipped with precision land attack weapons (as Australia's future submarines likely will be) not only possesses a serious long range strike capability, but also offers the ability to deliver strikes at Australia's discretion much like the F-111 did - only instead of being very hard to catch, it's very hard to find.

I know that's very much a simplification, and not necessarily representative or typical of a submarine's role, but I intend it only as an example of how requirements for a capability exist independent of platforms, and as such should be examined in a broader context. In this case, consider the strategic need and how it can be met before you consider the platform.

Does the above make sense? As I said it's just my own thoughts, if I'm making mistakes in my thinking I'd appreciate them being pointed out to me.

Personally speaking I agree with Todjaeger, the F-111 isn't getting a direct replacement because its mission has disappeared. Furthermore its capacity to deliver what capability it does offer has been diminished.

If there must be an additional air combat capability besides what's already outlined in the White Paper, then as I indicated before I'd be taking a look at some of the UCAV programs going on in the US and Europe.

Following are some examples of various UCAV programs, for the purpose of example all the pages I've linked to have specs, just to give an idea of the direction the technology is headed - of course they're all open source so treat them as you would any other open source info:

http://www.as.northropgrumman.com/products/nucasx47b/assets/X-47B-UCAS-Fact-Sheet.pdf

Neuron - Dassault Aviation - Flight Global UAV directory

Taranis - BAE Systems - Flight Global UAV directory

Boeing: History -- Products - Boeing X-45 Joint Unmanned Combat Air System

All the aircraft mentioned in the links above are technology demonstrators rather than anything resembling production aircraft, but they give an interesting indication of where the UCAV is headed, and, with further development, how well it could fill the role of a "regional bomber", should such a capability be deemed necessary.
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
The following is just a rant/speculation so please correct me on any glaring errors or oversimplifications.

I don't think we're going to see a replacement for the F-111 besides the Supers and subsequently F-35. It seems some people are looking at alternatives based solely on how closely "platform x" resembles the F-111 in terms of various aircraft performance parameters.

This is a mistake, because it assumes that the F-111 offers something for which there must be a direct, and similar, replacement. The F-111 fleet was a strategically significant asset in our region (although my understanding of strategic stuff is pretty simplistic so everyone feel free to slap me round on this point if I get my details wrong), so rather than comparing specifications of aircraft in the search for an alternative, look at the strategic needs addressed by the F-111, and then consider the other ways in which such needs can be addressed. For example, it's been indicated that Australia's future submarine will have a cruise missile capability.

Bearing that future capability in mind, consider the original F-111 procurement. It was strategically significant because it gave us the capacity to, if necessary, exert force against hostile nations over the great distances associated with our region. Not only that, but the speeds and attack profiles associated with the F-111 made it (at the time) a very difficult aircraft to intercept before it had hit its targets.

So the capability was in essence one of heavy strike at long distances, and a measure of assurance (due in the F-111's case to the difficulty of intercepting the thing) that such a strike can be carried out successfully. This isn't all the F-111 offers of course - but it is this capability which I feel is the source of so much speculation and debate on how to replace the aircraft.

Does this capability have to come from an aircraft? To return to a previous example, a submarine equipped with precision land attack weapons (as Australia's future submarines likely will be) not only possesses a serious long range strike capability, but also offers the ability to deliver strikes at Australia's discretion much like the F-111 did - only instead of being very hard to catch, it's very hard to find.

I know that's very much a simplification, and not necessarily representative or typical of a submarine's role, but I intend it only as an example of how requirements for a capability exist independent of platforms, and as such should be examined in a broader context. In this case, consider the strategic need and how it can be met before you consider the platform.

Does the above make sense? As I said it's just my own thoughts, if I'm making mistakes in my thinking I'd appreciate them being pointed out to me.

Personally speaking I agree with Todjaeger, the F-111 isn't getting a direct replacement because its mission has disappeared. Furthermore its capacity to deliver what capability it does offer has been diminished.

If there must be an additional air combat capability besides what's already outlined in the White Paper, then as I indicated before I'd be taking a look at some of the UCAV programs going on in the US and Europe.

Following are some examples of various UCAV programs, for the purpose of example all the pages I've linked to have specs, just to give an idea of the direction the technology is headed - of course they're all open source so treat them as you would any other open source info:

http://www.as.northropgrumman.com/products/nucasx47b/assets/X-47B-UCAS-Fact-Sheet.pdf

Neuron - Dassault Aviation - Flight Global UAV directory

Taranis - BAE Systems - Flight Global UAV directory

Boeing: History -- Products - Boeing X-45 Joint Unmanned Combat Air System

All the aircraft mentioned in the links above are technology demonstrators rather than anything resembling production aircraft, but they give an interesting indication of where the UCAV is headed, and, with further development, how well it could fill the role of a "regional bomber", should such a capability be deemed necessary.
I think this pretty much sums it up. The F-111 was a solution to a specific strategic problem, one that no longer exists. Its replacement doesn’t need to be a modernised carbon copy (or a modernised pig). Indeed the attachment people have to this platform is a little strange, I guess the fact that the public perception was/is that this platform alone elevated Australia to a leading regional power with regional reach. As you point out above Bonza that regional weight comes at a systems level rather than a platform level, and that regional reach can be achieved by other, more effective, solutions.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Agreed,

But I am of the belief that Supers don't carry Harpoon 1C OR Block II in USN service, only the legacy Hornets do... I can't justify this belief at present with a link, but I'm working on it...

The RAAF website is of course no help. It simply copied the very old weapons list for the F/A-18A/B's, which haven't been correct for years (Hornets still operate Sparrow and AIM-9M, but not JDAM or ASRAAM?) and the Super Hornet doesn't use the M61 20mm gun, but rather an evolved variant...
Well. that is maddening... I have checked the USN and Boeing sites... The USN confirms that the AGM-84D Harpoon, as well as SLAM will operate from the SHornets, and that the SLAM-ER is expected to be able to do so... The information from the USN site is a bit dated though, because the radar listed was the APG-73 found on the Block I SHornets, instead of the APG-79 AESA on the Block II's.

On checking the Boeing site, their info on the SHornet does not mention Harpoon Block II carriage, or the SLAM/SLAM-ER either... Checking the sections on the SLAM-ER, it can be carried by the SHornet. As for the Harpoon Block II, the info on it I had provided above, basically if the platform can fire a Block I, it can fire a Block II as well.

On a side note though, unless the ADF has ordered SLAM-ERs, it may well be using Harpoon Block II's from the SHornet. The ADF apparently spent ~A$30 million purchasing retrofit kits to convert the existing Harpoon Block I to Block II, though that might just be for the guidance systems.

Still no final word one way or the other.

-Cheers
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Just to add ,A quote from Wing Commander Glen Braz RAAF, from Defence Today Magazine Volume7 number 4 Article by Nigel Pittaway.

Super Hornets weapons package for RAAF 82 Sqn..

"Weapons to be fielded on delivery include the Raython AIM-120AMRAAM and AIM-9X Sidewinder Missles.MK80 series Bombs(with both paveway laser and JDAM GPS guidence kits),AGM-84 Harpoon and Raython AGM-154-C Joint stand off weapon.JSOW will be upgraded to AGM-154-C-1 standard after IOC is acheived end -2010"

Aussie Digger i am under the impression from the above Quote that the Supers will have AGM-84 Harpoons,but the article dosent state if its Block 1 or Block 2 variant.

Hope this helps.....
Er, perhaps they mean 1 Sqn and 82 Wing... ;-)

But anyway I am starting to come around to the idea that RAAF's Supers will carry Harpoon. Everywhere says it (amongst much inaccurate information) and I cannot find what I thought I had read... I believe it must be the case that my memory is somewhat addled....

Edit: this does not mean I hold anything Defence Today says as gospel however. It is quite a rag, IMHO...
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Well. that is maddening... I have checked the USN and Boeing sites... The USN confirms that the AGM-84D Harpoon, as well as SLAM will operate from the SHornets, and that the SLAM-ER is expected to be able to do so... The information from the USN site is a bit dated though, because the radar listed was the APG-73 found on the Block I SHornets, instead of the APG-79 AESA on the Block II's.

On checking the Boeing site, their info on the SHornet does not mention Harpoon Block II carriage, or the SLAM/SLAM-ER either... Checking the sections on the SLAM-ER, it can be carried by the SHornet. As for the Harpoon Block II, the info on it I had provided above, basically if the platform can fire a Block I, it can fire a Block II as well.

On a side note though, unless the ADF has ordered SLAM-ERs, it may well be using Harpoon Block II's from the SHornet. The ADF apparently spent ~A$30 million purchasing retrofit kits to convert the existing Harpoon Block I to Block II, though that might just be for the guidance systems.

Still no final word one way or the other.

-Cheers
Yep. All ADF Harpoon missiles (bar possibly encapsulated variants launched from the Collins) were upgraded to the Block II standard several years ago.

It is impossible to find out in the public domain whether the Collins encapsulated Harpoon missiles are Block II variants for obvious reasons (land attack capability and all that) though I fancy they are not...

Boeing and USN's sites are about as useful as ADF's. Last information I saw on the SLAM-ER is that they were hoping for IOC on the Super in 2008... :rolleyes:
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Yep. All ADF Harpoon missiles (bar possibly encapsulated variants launched from the Collins) were upgraded to the Block II standard several years ago.

It is impossible to find out in the public domain whether the Collins encapsulated Harpoon missiles are Block II variants for obvious reasons (land attack capability and all that) though I fancy they are not...

Boeing and USN's sites are about as useful as ADF's. Last information I saw on the SLAM-ER is that they were hoping for IOC on the Super in 2008... :rolleyes:
From the PR from Hill, all ADF Harpoons were to be upgraded to the Block II standard, though again I am not certain if this would also effect the Harpoon range. IIRC the Block II is comparable to the SLAM-ER in that respect.

As for the SLAM-ER, there was a successful test launch from a SHornet @ 40,000 ft showcasing the SLAM-ER range of 100+ n miles back in '05 or '06.

Other than that, information is rather thin on the ground.

-Cheers
 

hairyman

Active Member
Several years ago Australia was very keen on the Global Hawk, but we dont seem so keen now, Is that because of its price, or the advance of other types?
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Several years ago Australia was very keen on the Global Hawk, but we dont seem so keen now, Is that because of its price, or the advance of other types?
According to the Former Defence Minister, we have only delayed acquisition of our Broad Area Maritime Surveillance capability, not forgone it completely.

GH was not chosen as the BAMS solution, it was in competition with the Predator based "Mariner" UAV but was definitely the "favourite"...

According to this person, acquiring the P-8A was the greater priority and Defence had no resources to "spare" to devote to an acquisition of the BAMS solution at the time it was delayed.

In other words, Government didn't want to spend the cash at that time... To say that Northrop Grumman was disappointed is an understatement, as GF can attest... :D


I suspect in a few years when Block 40 GH's are surveillance the Pacific and we can see the information flowing for ourselves, we will acquire our own. It's still in the DCP that we intend to acquire up to 7x large UAV for the unmanned component of AIR-7000, along with up to 8x manned MPA aircraft - P-8A.

Cheers.
 
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