StevoJH
The Bunker Group
They are the A model.
Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
The F-35C is the carrier variant NOT the conventional take off and landing variant...
Australia is purchasing the F-35A and has been for more than 10 years. Not once has any Government or ADF figure of authority openly stated we are considering anything OTHER than the F-35A.
Mere speculation is all that has ever existed besides this...
I think I can hear howls of anguish from APA though. Music to my ears...
Regards
AD
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
What do you know, The Australian was wrong...
Hence why I put absolutely NO credence in anything printed in an Australian newspaper in relation to defence, unless I've confirmed it from somewhere else...
Likewise here mate. Great to see the acquisition finally approved, maybe now those muppets will finally ditch the website and accept reality for what it is?I think I can hear howls of anguish from APA though. Music to my ears...
Regards
AD
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
Unlikely.
Maybe the RAAF should dump the disabled hulk of an F-111 (once any the classified stuff has been removed) on one of their front lawns. Then they can pretend to be F-111 pilots and leave the rest of the world to keep moving into the 21st century.
LOL! i had to join just to comment on this.
hang on, i'll draw a graph to prove all of you wrong!!
nfloorl:the road runner
Active Member
Maybee throw in the old F-111 flight sim to.........
Let him have some fun planning and flying Missions
Good to hear that 14 JSF are on there way
My impression is that these these 14 JSF ,will all be R&D Aircraft that will be updated at a later date?
Regards
P.S Kopp must be :flame
It looks like some of the MRH90 will be built in Germany
Army Technology - Germany to Speed up Australian Helicopter Deliveries
What's with the small batch by batch purchases? Is it related to unit costs decreasing as production cranks up? Is it related to cashflow and the defence budget? I can't imagine we'll just be operating 14 of these things - why not just confirm and purchase whatever the minimum is (60-80)? Then look at ordering more later.
Is this the way we handle the other major purchases? IIRC we ordered 3 AWD's - why? If it were done the same way as the F-35 acquisition we'd be ordering one today, one more in 2 years, and another a couple of years after that would we?
This partially answers it I guess: http://australianaviation.com.au/govt-approves-first-batch-of-14-jsfs-for-raaf/
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i believe the hope is that by the next batch, the order numbers will have improved from there current form, and therefore the price will drop. Batch one will be straight off the block, so any bugs detected early on will require working out and fixing for Batch II. The big thing is just price, the world was promised a cheaper sales price on first lot, but that blew well up early on, and the order numbers from Joint countries have beem low, with most waiting to see the finished product in the hands of other nations, and if we sign high at the first order, we can with any luck spread the extra amount spent on getting them in service early and bringing them on-line very quickly and ready for the 2nd squadron to take there F35s with senior pilots very well experienced.
As for the AWD, the govt. doesnt want to commit to a 4th, then Can it and piss off the RAN. if the economy picks up we could be looking forward to seeing one, and again because the structures already in place, it will be around $500million cheaper then the first vessel, HMAS Hobart.
I believe they will be in Blocks. First block is usually pretty primative.
First block might just be for training and R&D.
We don't have to be in a major rush for numbers now we have SH (when ever they become comissioned units). I would imagine trying to train pilots for SH and F-35 will be a pretty full on task.
Plus we are leasing the SH and we will see if we want to keep some around for a bit longer or not.
How many are we getting, they were talking 120 before now numbers are 80-90?
As for the Helos, thats not much of a delay really, hopefully the navy gets some more and will add to local builds.
First block might just be for training and R&D.
We don't have to be in a major rush for numbers now we have SH (when ever they become comissioned units). I would imagine trying to train pilots for SH and F-35 will be a pretty full on task.
Plus we are leasing the SH and we will see if we want to keep some around for a bit longer or not.
How many are we getting, they were talking 120 before now numbers are 80-90?
As for the Helos, thats not much of a delay really, hopefully the navy gets some more and will add to local builds.
As a taxpayer I prefer buying things as they are built, instead of buying something I won't see the final product delivered for ten years. With a multiple year run of aircraft, even more so. While its true inflation tends to increase the price of a product over the years, its also true a larger bulk order will see a price reduction too. That is if the product is deliverable quickly.
Unfortunately, the later is not the case with the F-35s. Whether all of them is ordered from the very beginning or not, Lockheed Martin is going to step up production over a period of years, not days or months. With the production schedule as is, which is subject to change and most likely will change, Australia won't have all of their aircraft for several years.
There are other countries involved too. This time Australia is in the lead with other nations, Australia is not buying an aircraft already in full production. The US has been buying its equipment through multiple years for decades. America is even buying an aircraft carrier over multiple annual appropriations. Its nothing new for the USA....
Unfortunately, the later is not the case with the F-35s. Whether all of them is ordered from the very beginning or not, Lockheed Martin is going to step up production over a period of years, not days or months. With the production schedule as is, which is subject to change and most likely will change, Australia won't have all of their aircraft for several years.
There are other countries involved too. This time Australia is in the lead with other nations, Australia is not buying an aircraft already in full production. The US has been buying its equipment through multiple years for decades. America is even buying an aircraft carrier over multiple annual appropriations. Its nothing new for the USA....
First 14 will be retained in the US for training, doctrine development,, tech development, friendly work etc....
blueorchid
Member
From StingrayOz,
Cheers
Sorry, we are buying the SH's not leasing them. From memory around $6Billion for every thing, aircraft,spares for around 10 years, weapons and training etc.
Cheers
It seems like a lot of money for not a lot of functionality.
Later aircraft will surely be cheaper and probably more capable, so they would be much better value.
With the Super Hornets providing a current solution, the situation doesn't seem critical. A buy of 14 just means 14 overpriced aircraft that will almost certainly require a bunch of work to upgrade in the future.
I don't see why Australia has to be the first one to take the plunge... it seems an unnecessary expense to commit now. Obviously wanting to start building infrastructure and training is a part of it, but is there more to it than that?
If I were a cynic, I'd probably suspect someone is trying to curry favour and win JSF supply contracts...
In other news, the first two Wedgetails have been handed over to the DMO
Media Release - Department of Defence
They don't actually work yet, but at least they can start training crews.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #1,879
Yes, but you seem to have overlooked the state of the F/A-18A/B Hornets in the RAAF. IIRC their availability numbers are set to begin declining right about the middle of next decade. The upcoming SHornets were just to replace the F-111C's since they were (are) being retired earlier than originally anticipated.It seems like a lot of money for not a lot of functionality.
Later aircraft will surely be cheaper and probably more capable, so they would be much better value.
With the Super Hornets providing a current solution, the situation doesn't seem critical. A buy of 14 just means 14 overpriced aircraft that will almost certainly require a bunch of work to upgrade in the future.
I don't see why Australia has to be the first one to take the plunge... it seems an unnecessary expense to commit now. Obviously wanting to start building infrastructure and training is a part of it, but is there more to it than that?
If I were a cynic, I'd probably suspect someone is trying to curry favour and win JSF supply contracts...
In other news, the first two Wedgetails have been handed over to the DMO
Media Release - Department of Defence
They don't actually work yet, but at least they can start training crews.
While the 14 early LRIP at to remain in the US for testing, it will gave Australia a chance to get some experience on the new aircraft and potentially begin to make the adjustments for operations and to doctrine to get the F-35 into RAAF service.
-Cheers