longbow
New Member
200M??? This sounds like the Norway-deal all over, when the press compared the TCO cost of the F-35 to the unit price of the Gripen..
The F-16 replacement of the Royal Netherlands Airforce.
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See the australien bid for 14 JSF. I don't know the details.200M??? This sounds like the Norway-deal all over, when the press compared the TCO cost of the F-35 to the unit price of the Gripen..
Grand Danois
Entertainer
About 56 million USD fly-away - 200 million AUD is LRIP package UPC and introduction into service plus a lot of infrastructure (tools, shops, training, basing, personnel salaries, etc.)
This is "standard practice" in Australia, I refer you to the Shornet deal.
Official SAAB Gripen NG fly-away is 55 million USD (2008). This price may include some extra items though, can't remember everything.
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4.8 + 4.8 = 9.6/85= Gripen TCO.
Unless this package is incomplete...
Also, how long will the block 60 or the Gripen stay effective in modern combat?
The Australians want to replace their newly ordered SH's in the 2020's already, I hope the planes that we would buy in this scenario will have a longer lifespan?
Anyone knows the F-35 TCO package includes maintainance by LM personell?
I prefer not to privatise the military TBH.
Unless this package is incomplete...
Also, how long will the block 60 or the Gripen stay effective in modern combat?
The Australians want to replace their newly ordered SH's in the 2020's already, I hope the planes that we would buy in this scenario will have a longer lifespan?
Anyone knows the F-35 TCO package includes maintainance by LM personell?
I prefer not to privatise the military TBH.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
The aircraft manufacturer can't really calculate a TCO - this is for the customer to do, as it includes many items unrelated to the manufacturer ( typically more than half the TCO).
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Some of it was guaranteed by the Swedish Govt, though. But it's hard to get smart on these things since how a package is priced and what is included is rarely transparent!!!
They're being replaced in 2025 because they were only ever regarded as an interim buy. They will end up back with the USN or if not then the State Dept will hold them over for someone else to use under an FMS deal. They will not be at their "use by date" by a long shot.
The Shornets were always intended to be stop gaps just in case the JSF was delayed and also to enable us to maintain combat capability for other doctrinal demands whilst the new ORBAT was defined and grew.
Are you guys printing money or do they just grow on those eucalyptus trees???
Really? Now i've been looking for hours to find some kind of source that support this claim. can't find it, will you please provide me with it or some information? and is F-16 block 60 superior to all Euro/canards or is it just Gripen that is inferior to everything els??
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Incorrect, the offer includes a COMPLETE package supported by the swedish government.
longbow
New Member
Really? Now i've been looking for hours to find some kind of source that support this claim. can't find it, will you please provide me with it or someinformation?
longbow
New Member
Yes... but... It depends on what you consider to be the complete package. The offer contains nothing about the future upgrades (that could prove to be so expensive if the Gripen turns out to be an orphan) - because it is not included in the offer. Neither is all the needed spares included in the offer. To say that Saab has offered RNLAF a fixed TCO-price is a misconception of the offer.
It depends on what you consider to be the complete package. The offer contains nothing about the future upgrades (that could prove to be so expensive if the Gripen turns out to be an orphan) - because it is not included in the offer. Neither is all the needed spares included in the offer. To say that Saab has offered RNLAF a fixed TCO-price is a misconception of the offer.Far from complete?? FAR?? where is your source? it is a all inclusive package
I.m not saying that gripen is the better fighter but lets stay to known facts!
and spares are included
Gripen - The wings of your nation - Gripen NG Fighters for The Netherlands
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longbow
New Member
Saab does its best to make their offer seem like a fixed definitive (and cheap) offer, as oposed to the "LM does not even say what the F-35 will cost" - This equates to something like: Gripen - Fixed low cost - F-35 - Unknown, possibly high cost. I don't blame anyone if they believe that the Gripen represents a fixed price - Saab has obviously learnt their lesson from the Norway-deal, and are doing their best to regain their "cheap&capable-image". The problem is, the package can not be complete if it does not say anything about the upgrades. The price of the upgrades are high, and the dutch should know this from the MLU, and Saab is in no position to make any guarantes on the price of the upgrades that the dutch might want 20 years from now.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
AND
Have looked at both linked items. Having read through both of them, they IMO far from being 'complete' packages.Far from complete?? FAR?? where is your source? it is a all inclusive package
I.m not saying that gripen is the better fighter but lets stay to known facts!
and spares are included
Gripen - The wings of your nation - Gripen NG Fighters for The Netherlands
The first link, provided by delta2005 seems to be missing the following types of systems.
Targeting pods not included, and no mention of what pods, if any, will be already integrated for use by the Gripen NG
Any DAS (Danger Awareness System)
EWSP
What muntions are integrated with the Gripen NG?
Who pays for future weapons integration onto the platform?
What sort of datalinks included and what/who do they interact with?
The second link, provided by gripen39 also does not answer many of these questions.
It lists 'EW systems' but neglects to identify what types of EW systems are included with the offer. These 'EW systems' may or may not include many of the ones I listed above. It also lists several types of air to air missiles which will apparently be able to be used from the Gripen NG, though it does not specifically state that. It does however neglect to say anything about any air to ground munitions. Lastly, it states that the Gripen NG will be able to use the Gripen datalink, but neglects to mention if the offer includes any datalinks which would be compatible and interoperable with the rest of NATO.
In short, the offers either omitted a number of items which would be included as part of the 'complete' package or the offers were not in fact for a complete package.
-Cheers