As usual, thanks. I really appreciate it. Looks like quite a bit of work ahead to determine requirements. Not easy.
Malaysian Newport LST KD Sri Inderapura gutted by fire
- Thread starter ThePuss
- Start date
Which means it will probably be a mimimum of 2-3 years before a contract is signed.
As the RMN has had a requirement for a multi-role supply ship for a number of years now, it
already has an idea as to what its operational requirements are. The main difference now is that the loss KD Inderapura has complicated matters. She was expected to serve another 10 years.
A week back the RMN announced it was forming a 'regiment' to protect ships. I think this is part of its longstanding plans to have a Marine Regiment, which I feel is warranted considering the RMN's presence in the Spratley's and Malaysia's 4,900km coastline. IIf I recall correctly, protecting ships was how the RM and USMC first started out.
Last edited:
It's not the case, I was at the Press conference, what the chief actually said was that he was planning a raise a 'regiment ' of naval reservists from shipping and port companies based on their special skills including those who could carry out similar tasks like the MISC reservists serving on Bunga Mas Lima if and when required in the future, the NST article that you probably read was wrong on the number of personnel in the Navy anyway ( Tan Sri Aziz said 15,000, NST heard as 50,000), the number to be raised isn't that large also only 1,500 to add to the existing 3,500
Maybe RMN can get a ship similar to the Makassar, but upgraded with more features. From the indonesian media, the cost of the 1st 2 ships built in Korea is stated as costing USD30Mil each, while the 1st indonesian built one costs USD15mil. Even if each of them costs USD50Mil, it is only a quarter of the cost of the Meko OPV or the endurance class LPD ordered by thailand, and less than 1/3 of the cost of an airbus A400M transporter.
Maybe RMN can get 4 of these and replacing the new frigate requirements with absalon-class ships. This will enable RMN to have ships that can support its overseas anti-piracy missions and humanitarian support/disaster relief missions more effectively.
Maybe RMN can get 4 of these and replacing the new frigate requirements with absalon-class ships. This will enable RMN to have ships that can support its overseas anti-piracy missions and humanitarian support/disaster relief missions more effectively.
i would agree the absalon-class is a better ship and can be used for much more than any other average LSD out there my main complaint is size and load. however i like what the Danish are doing With there navy and wished more navies would build there ships capable of completing more task!
Jon
Just a guess, he meant that a similar ship built in Korea is okay, but if build in Indonesia is not okay?
I think the defence minister zahid hamidi needs to cut down on crap media statements...
2 wrong statements previously made by the Defence Minister were attributed to him not being fully briefed [Fulcrum retirement statement] or the media mis-quoting him [RMN regiment statement]. Today's STAR reported that the Defence Minister had said in October that a replacement would be sought for the Fulcrums by next year [probably what they meant was a replacement would be selected] and that the requirement for the multi-role ships would be for 3 vessels. 3 vessels now? In 1997, Najib said that the requirement was for 2 vessels but this would depend on funds. I'm sure Dzirhan would be able to provide some clarification here.
Despite the easy accessibilty to MINDEF's PR department for the local media, the public does not get access to accurate and interesting local defence news, largely due to a lack of defence knowledge with most reporters and their editors. Granted, the Malaysian public gets the occasional article about tri-service exercises or live missile tests, but the majority are devoted to promotions, ceremonies, visits by VIPs to units, etc. To get info about MAF participation in the FPDA or CARAT, one has to rely on either US or Australian web sites for good descriptive reports and photos.
Though local defence analysts have access to timely and accurate information regarding the local defence scene, thanks to their contacts in the MAF and local industry players, the few local analysts I have met in person lacked a basic knowledge in defence matters and history [no offence intended to anyone]. And I'm not refering to specialist fields like EW, ballistic protection, etc. At a launching ceremony organised by a defence magazine in the 90's, I met a local defence analyst who claimed to be a former lecturer at the Staff College, who was adament that the only reason Israel won in 73 was because Western pilots flew their Skyhawks and Phantoms. The same individual insisted that there was no difference in calibre betwwen the FH-70 and G-5 howitzers.
What MINDEF's PR Department really needs is a decent budget to launch an effective promotional campaign, in partnership with an ad agency, aimed at increasing public awareness in national defence and instilling public pride for the men and women who serve, as well as attracting volunteers to the MAF. At the moment, the web sites of the 3 services are badly designed, hosted on slow and unreliable servers, written in poor English and worst of all, contain boring information that is of little interest to the man in the street and for those who are contemplating a career in the MAF.
Even the Phillipines army has a better designed and more interesting web site.
This blog contains an article about MINDEF's PR Department, including one by Dzirhan.
Senang Diri
Despite the easy accessibilty to MINDEF's PR department for the local media, the public does not get access to accurate and interesting local defence news, largely due to a lack of defence knowledge with most reporters and their editors. Granted, the Malaysian public gets the occasional article about tri-service exercises or live missile tests, but the majority are devoted to promotions, ceremonies, visits by VIPs to units, etc. To get info about MAF participation in the FPDA or CARAT, one has to rely on either US or Australian web sites for good descriptive reports and photos.
Though local defence analysts have access to timely and accurate information regarding the local defence scene, thanks to their contacts in the MAF and local industry players, the few local analysts I have met in person lacked a basic knowledge in defence matters and history [no offence intended to anyone]. And I'm not refering to specialist fields like EW, ballistic protection, etc. At a launching ceremony organised by a defence magazine in the 90's, I met a local defence analyst who claimed to be a former lecturer at the Staff College, who was adament that the only reason Israel won in 73 was because Western pilots flew their Skyhawks and Phantoms. The same individual insisted that there was no difference in calibre betwwen the FH-70 and G-5 howitzers.
What MINDEF's PR Department really needs is a decent budget to launch an effective promotional campaign, in partnership with an ad agency, aimed at increasing public awareness in national defence and instilling public pride for the men and women who serve, as well as attracting volunteers to the MAF. At the moment, the web sites of the 3 services are badly designed, hosted on slow and unreliable servers, written in poor English and worst of all, contain boring information that is of little interest to the man in the street and for those who are contemplating a career in the MAF.
Even the Phillipines army has a better designed and more interesting web site.
This blog contains an article about MINDEF's PR Department, including one by Dzirhan.
Senang Diri
Last edited:
Endurance class for Thailand did not cost 200M USD. Contract was for 200M SGD in 2008. Current weakened USD exchange rates works out to about 144M USD, otherwise, it would be about 120-13M or so.
Don't forget about manning requirements as well. For comparison, the Endurance class ships are longer and about the same beam and draught, with a lower official displacement and half the crew.
PS: looks like the Indo built Makasaar was 30million, not 15million.
Indonesian Navy Receives New $30m Warship - The Jakarta Globe
I assume the Makasaar are built to commercial standards?
Out of curiosity, has the RMN attempted any large scale humanitarian support/disaster relief missions overseas? Large scale being subjective of course.
Does the RMN have a need for 4 upgraded Makasaar + Absalon class ships like you're suggesting? Does the RMN need that much sealift capacity? That's also a substantial increase in ship crew. Each of the Absalon class was estimated to cost about 220M in 2006/7 dollars without the missile suite and certain other features. They aren't exactly cheap, even if the Makasaar are.
Thanks for link to the Malaysian newspaper article on the Dokdo and the S. Korean efforts to make a sale.HangPC2 said:
The Endurance Class (141m x 21m x 5m) is 8,500 tons at full load displacement and is designed as a multi-role LPD with space for growth (in additional armaments and sensors). We have since added Typhoon MK 25 II 25mm guns with stabilized turrets that are able to hit targets bobbing in the sea more than 2.7km away (shown at 1.15min of the video below). This is over and above the existing 76mm gun and MISTRAL missiles.
And yes, the contract is valued at SGD $200 million (or about US$135 million, depending on which conversion rate you use). Please note that the ST Marine contract with the Thai navy includes:
(i) a 141m Landing Platform Dock (LPD) equipped with the C-Flex combat management system and the C-Search radar suite (SCANTER 4100 air and surface surveillance radar) from Terma,
(ii) two 23m Landing Craft Mechanised (LCM); and
(iii) two 13m Landing Craft Vehicle and Personnel (LCVP).
(ii) two 23m Landing Craft Mechanised (LCM); and
(iii) two 13m Landing Craft Vehicle and Personnel (LCVP).
BTW, beyond that fact that the Endurance Class is a warship that is highly automated (it can be operated by a crew of 8 officers & 57 men at lean manning), at surge, it can also carry another 400 or so troops and 51 vehicles and heavy equipment (a capability that was demonstrated after the Dec 2004 Tsunami).
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noLgjADodfM]Size Matters[/ame]
Above is a video that provides more details. Compared to the Makasaar class (125m x 22m x 4.9m), the Endurance Class is longer, has a set of higher end features which enables more efficient space planning/ allocation and is designed to be more survivable.
Last edited:
I'm not aware of RMN ever being deployed abroad for disaster relief. Disaster relief work by the MAF abroad has involved RMAF transports delivering aid to Indonesia, the Philippines and Pakistan, plus medical teams.
I'm just guessing here but the Makassar's are probably built to commercial standards, and probably lack the damage control facilities incoporated in other military spec designs. What's important is that they suit the TNI-AL's requirements. Of all ASEAN navies, the TNI-AL has a more pressing need for a large LST, supply vessel fleet.
The RMN chief's statements that the Dodko is too large for the RMN is very revealing, after all the RMN insn't too big on manpower. While I'm all for high automation, my concern is that in event of manpower being needed for serious damage control work, small crews may not be enough for the job. Oddly enough, during LIMA the Defence Minister said that there was a requirement for 3 ships [or was he again mis-quoted by the press?]
Last edited:
From what i found, the 2 korean built costs USD30Mil, but the PT PAL built costs around USD15.8Mil
KOMPAS cetak - Indonesia Produksi Kapal Perang
As for my suggestion for the absalon, RMN has a requirement for 2 more frigate, and instead of getting a "straight" frigate like the yarrow 2000, RMN might as well get 2 absalon class ships.
RMN has undertaken humanitarian support/disaster relief missions during the asian tsunami crisis. RMN also involved in the piracy hunting missons off somalian coast. Not to mention the usual logistics sealink needed between west and east malaysia.
Another important role for the Indera Sakti class was operating as tenders for the FACs.
They also took part in Ops United Shield, to evacuate the remaining UN troops in Somalia.
If that's the case, would four Masakaars be excessive? You'll be gaining sealift capability with the Absalons as well. And as mentioned, those ships are pricey.
Interesting to note that different news media offer different costs for the Masakaars. Looks like some things never change.
Exactly. TNI is buying to its needs.
This does not surprise me at all as I never understood the Malaysian netizen fascination with the Dokdo. It's a great ship, but does it fulfill Malaysia's needs? Does the RMN require a platform of that size and nature? A Dokdo class or similar could possibly wind up being the RMN's version of the Chakri Naruebet. The choice of upgraded Masakaars or the like would seem a lot more appropriate. The crew required for the Dokdo can staff approximately 4 Masakaars, assuming that the crew requirements for any updated version stay the same as the existing ships.
The LPX (Dokdo) project was claimed to be the core of several Rapid Response Fleet the ROKN would operate. Assuming the figures are accurate, each of these fleets alone would have enough firepower to overwhelm any of the Asean navies right now.
Last edited:
The Absalons sealift capability is minimal, as it is more of a multi purpose platform that is more of a frigate than a logistics ship. What i have in mind is the absalons fulfilling frigate/sealane patrol (as off somalian waters) duties with its secondary logistics capabilities used when needed. The makassars then will cover the hole left by the Newport LST/ 1511class LST's. FYI in the late 80's RMN has 2 MPSS (mahawangsa, inderasakti), 3 LST's (raja jarom, sri langkawi, sri banggi). RMN was supposed to get 2 Newport class ships but later only 1 was taken up. IMO 3@4 Makassars and 2 Absalons will be just nice for RMN, with the absalons mainly fulfilling RMN's frigate requirements while having extra logistics capabilities.
What about the China built Type 071 LPD? Its quite capable in the range of Dokdo, but wouldnt cost as much.
Type 071 Landing Platform Dock - SinoDefence.com
Type 071 Landing Platform Dock - SinoDefence.com
Looking at that hull & superstructure, it looks to my (amateur) eye as if it's designed for more speed, & less internal capacity in relation to tonnage, than most LPDs.