the road runner
Active Member
Could this be the mock up version from Sikorsky.It had hellfires/rocket pods on the stub wings,door gunners ect...similar to below pic??
The S-70A Black Hawk helicopter can be armed with a variety of missiles
The S-70A Black Hawk helicopter can be armed with a variety of missiles
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Depends on your POV. Iroquois was un-deployable to any sort of modern conflict and even Blackhawk has significant limitations thanks to BAE's failure to adequately develop a modern EWSP system.
MRH-90, OTOH will have excellent ballistic and EW protection capability from the time it is introduced to service and has much more lift capacity than the Blackhawk or the Iroquois individually.
So from an operational utility role, there is absolutely no question as to whether ADF has more lift or not currently.
From a non-threatening domestic POV, Army probably had more lift with Iroquois, Blackhawk, Kiowa and Squirrel than is the case now, but what does that matter? For non-threatening domestic roles, civilian helo resources can be called upon...
I am all for an LUH helo of the same type as the new training (HATS) helo type. I think there is a great need for a smaller, lighter helo in certain roles than the MRH-90 or Chinook.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
The Army's Hueys only had seating for 7 and at the time of their retirement there were only 25x in-service...
In "extremis" situations, more could be taken on the floor of the aircraft, but depending on the configuration it may not have been possible to close the doors and hence it had to be an EXTREME situation to lift people in that state and very sedate non-tactical flying conducted...
14 would be a stretch for a Huey, without people sitting on other's laps and in patrol heavy state (packs, webbing, personal armour, kevlar helmets etc) it is unlikely to be room.
A Blackhawk could and an MRH-90 can seat 20...
dragonfire
New Member
Saw a pic of Aus Blackhawk helo on Defencetalk, i couldnt find the exact same pic but i found this one, this one clearly shows aux fuel tanks on stub wings. The pic i saw was not too clear, do Aus helos have a orange (kinda) and green color scheme. This one looks like the Blackhawks of the Brunei military (except for the FLIR) on your link roadrunner
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the road runner
Active Member
The picture you posted is an Australian Army Blackhawk.Its got Aussie cam on it.(Army 102)
When Australia purchased its blackhawks,there was a requirement for them to fly unrefuiled,across the Timor sea......Thus the aux fuel tanks on the stub wing.
As for an Orange colour scheme,i am thinking US coast guard maybee?
Maybee even a test aircraft?
Dunno
Regards
IIRC its only the dauphins which are orange in their larger ship based helos
we don't paint our` test aircraft orange anymore. and I don't think we ever painted the testbed helos orange anyway
winnyfield
New Member
That was the 'battle hawk' (MH-60L). That was Sikorsky's offering during the bushranger/kiowa replacement project - the ADF chose the Tiger.
As for the other question, the black hawk and MRH-90 also has greater cargo lift over the hueys.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Out of interest, the Israeli's are working on an armed Blackhawk variant, with the rationale behind it, being the same as the armed USMC KC-130J-30 Hercules tankers, "if it's in theatre anyway, why not put some bombs on it"?
(Bombs being a generic word for munitions...)
An idea I like. Now if ONLY RAAF would put some bombs on the AP-3C Orions since they are doing overland surveillance missions ANYWAY...
I am not sure if they are on the agenda for the APC-3s, but this kind of capability is there for their replacements in the P-8 poseidon
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
AGM-158 JASSM was going to be integrated onto AP-3C but the project was cancelled due to
cost and complexity.
I was thinking of something cheaper along the lines of Hellfire. JASSM seems a bit much to launch on every 4x4 loaded with insurgents driving around the place...
If Iraqi Caravans can be loaded with them, why not RAAF AP-3C's...
BlackHawk with missiles verse Tiger/apache.. Hmm, thats an odd meetup..
Whats the range on Hellfire? Are there any glide kits etc avalible? Can it strike via GPS? Though it would be a bit short on range..
Wonder how many Hellfires you could strap onto a C-17..
Whats the range on Hellfire? Are there any glide kits etc avalible? Can it strike via GPS? Though it would be a bit short on range..
Wonder how many Hellfires you could strap onto a C-17..
dragonfire
New Member
AD, in the pic of the Blackhawk with stub wings (posted above) it looks like it has additional capacity for more tanks, is it the case, can it have 4 tanks instead of 2, or are those points for something else, tnks
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
Personally I would prefer that RAAF AP-3C Orions be armed with AGM-65 Mavericks instead of the AGM-114 Hellfire/Hellfire II. While the Taliban do not seem to be equipped with (or at least it has not made the news where I am) with manpack SAMs, it is not outside the realm of possibility. With that in mind, I would just as soon not risk a highly valuable aircraft that could not really be replaced when alternate munitions would keep it safer. The RAAF also could potentially make use of Kiwi expertise in carrying out the fitout.
The max range I have come across for the Hellfire II is ~8km, hence my preference for the AP-3Cs being equipped with Mavericks which have three times the range. I do not believe any glide kits are available, nor do I think they would be of use if there were any. The Hellfire is a laser-guided missile (GPS/datalink not currently available) with a few different lock-on options, before & after firing essentially. Given the missile's small size (~45kg, 1.6 m x 18 cm) the range of both the seeker and motor max out at ~8km, therefore having either GPS and/or glide kits would be less than useful. It is possible that somethink like a Hellfire III might be developed, since I believe that the JCM (Joint Common Missile) which was to replace the Hellfire has been cancelled. In which case there might be additional iterations of Hellfire where such features could become useful.
I am uncertain with respect to ADF Blackhawks, however I have seen photos of UH-60 Blackhawks in US service fitted out with two pairs of tanks.
-Cheers
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Yep, Australia ordered the ESSS (External stores support system) with it's S-70A2 Blackhawks back in the 80's, which can accomodate up to 4x external fuel tanks.
They are rarely ever carried however, due to the apparent stress they place on the airframe and are used mostly for ferry flights as I understand...
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
The reason I considered Hellfire, rather than any other missile are:
1. It is already in ADF inventory, whereas Maverick or some other missile type is not.
2. It is a small relatively cheap missile suitable for the types of targets (especially in it's K - blast fragmentation, rather than armour piercing warheads) being engaged in the WoT. Maverick seems a bit "heavy" for taking out a 4x4...
3. Being relatively small a fairly impressive warload of 4x missiles per pylon can be carried. Maverick or other larger missiles can generally only be carried 1 per pylon. (I've seen 3x Maverick carriage, but rarely, so it is obviously not favoured).
4. RAAF AP-3C's already have Harpoon Block II to deal with larger maritime and land based targets, whereas the RNZAF has no such capability.
But the Hellfire's 8k range is achieved from slow flying and even hovering, helos at low altitude.
An AP-3C that is already doing 200kts or faster from a higher altitude is going to impart greater range on the Hellfire missile. As for 8k's being the max laser and seeker range, I'm not sure about that. Even Paveway II weapons are credited with 12k standoff ranges...
It is notable that the Brimstone missile (same missile body and rocket motor as Hellfire) is credited with a standoff range of 25k's. (Mostly because of altitude and increased launch speed I'd suggest).
The Hellfire is available in MMV radar guided variant and doesn't only rely on laser guidance...
The Maverick out of interest is only available in IR, TV and Laser guided modes itself. No matter which variant is chosen, great standoff range is not a feature of these seekers and again, RAAF has Harpoon Block II's for longer ranging shots...