Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[StingrayOZ]

It's amazing, when I was a serving member, the blokes in Army drooled over the idea of possibly having an Abrams tank and a modern helo gunship.

Now we've got them (or at least very close to having both operational) and blokes still aren't happy... These aren't good enough they say.

We have the basics now. A decent tank, a decent attack/seach helicopter, a decent Destroyer, good frigates, a pair of very nice flattop LHD, we now have Superbugs with F-35 on the order books, subs that are decent (when avalible but thats another issue) and quiet good patrol boats. We are even getting some decent artillary and we have the C-17/wedgetail/refuelers. The bush master is a handy little unit too. The future looks bright too OCV's, new subs, new technologies its all going in the right direction. It wasn't cheap or hassle free but the ADF has it.

I think the ADF is now a tidy little force. There are some weaker areas, and there will always be a call for more numbers but in real terms its all good. Many countries are envious of what we have and what we are getting.

 

[abramsteve]

Hi all!
StingrayOZ, could not agree with you more, the ADF now has some very capable assets and this will only increase over the coming decades.

Icelord and Eamonn, some good points, and I know Im biased here but I have to agree with and earlier post by PeterM, much of the RAAF's recent procurments have been of great benifit to the Army.

I dont know how much kit could be pruchased for the price of a C-17, I'd imagine it would be quite a bit, but I still think its a worthwhile investment.

Aussie Digger got it spot on, whatever we get its never going to be enough or what everyone wants, but its better that getting nothing at all (eg New Zealand)

 

[PeterM]

from Army Technology - Australia Receives First Benz G-Wagon Prototype

Australia Receives First Benz G-Wagon Prototype
03 November 2009

The Australian Defence Force (ADF) has received the first prototype Mercedes Benz G-Wagon vehicles from the Defence Materiel Organisation's project Land 121 Overlander.

Australian Defence Minister Greg Combet said the new G-Wagon would include detachable unit-specific modules designed for specific tasks that include munitions transfer, field ambulances or troop carriers.

As part of the contract, a total of 1,200 Mercedes Benz G-Wagons and 315 specialist modules will be delivered ready for operations.

Under the $50m contract, the modules will be manufactured by Varley in Hunter Valley where they will also undergo quality assurance, verification and validation testing.

Testing is expected to be complete by late August 2010 and the first delivery of operational G-Wagon vehicles is scheduled for 2011.

The military G-wagon is not armoured, but can be equipped with armour modules by replacing body panels to protect the crew against rifle fire or grenade fragments.

The vehicle has three military variants – basic light utility vehicles, command and reconnaissance models and the military police version.

The project Land 121 Overlander is a $4.6bn multiphased project to provide a fleet of 7,000 vehicles, modules and trailers, and the associated support to enhance the combat capability of the ADF.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Hi all!
I dont know how much kit could be pruchased for the price of a C-17, I'd imagine it would be quite a bit, but I still think its a worthwhile investment.

C-17 is an absolutely critical purchase (and the best option we could have pursued with hindsight). We are *the* regions C-17 operator. Even with out old clunky fleet of C-130's we make up a large percentage of total airlift avalible. For aid, for military, for evacuations etc.

We should be glad that we are big enough to get into these kinds of purchases that many countries in our region could never dream of. Thats why we shouldn't forgo these big expensive purchases, otherwise for love or money nobody locally would have them.

We then become the regions security hub. Not because of pressure, economic or military, but because we are the only ones regionally with the tools.

I would like to see the tool collection continue so we have atleast one of every need to have tool avalible for the job. Having only 60 M1A1's is not a concern. Having no self propelled artillary to even train with is a huge issue.

 

[StingrayOZ]

from Army Technology - Australia Receives First Benz G-Wagon Prototype

I like the G wagon. Between that and the bushmaster it covers what we need in this area. When do they start selling off the landies? Wouldn't mind picking one of those up.

 

[StevoJH]

I like the G wagon. Between that and the bushmaster it covers what we need in this area. When do they start selling off the landies? Wouldn't mind picking one of those up.

They are probably completely trashed. Let me know if you get one though, if they are in any sort of decent ships, they'll probably still be cheap enough to muck around with.

 

[PeterM]

C-17 is an absolutely critical purchase (and the best option we could have pursued with hindsight). We are *the* regions C-17 operator. Even with out old clunky fleet of C-130's we make up a large percentage of total airlift avalible. For aid, for military, for evacuations etc.

We are replacing the C-130H with a couple more C-130J - so they won't be so "old and clunky"
Don't forget the Carbiou replacement, MRH-90, new CH-47F and the Helicopter Aircrew Training System (which will likely have some light utility capability).
We will easily have the region's best airlift capability

When you consider the 2 LHDs, future strategic sealift ship and 6 new LCH
we will also have the region's best sealift capability.

We have a reasonably small army in the big scheme of things, however it is very capable and it will be extremely mobile.

 

[the road runner]

When do they start selling off the landies? Wouldn't mind picking one of those up.

Aww landrover,put me down for 2.

On a side note i would like to ask the forum members who are in the know,what will Australia be doing with its Leopard 1 Tanks?

Are we in talks with anyone to purchase our Leos?
Or would these tanks be a usefull asset for engineers or other units in the ADF?

Regards.

 

[Jezza]

any word on the performance of the Tiger in afghanistan.

 

[lopez]

as far as i am aware australia has not deployed the tigre but the french have and that was only recent...

any word on the performance of the Tiger in afghanistan

have they announced which sp artillery we are getting?
i hope we get the archer system. but i think we a re more likely to get the Korean designed as-9

 

[Jezza]

Thats what i meant.
French ones.
The french deployed them on July 26.
The 3 helos are the HAP variant, 2023,2024,2025.

 

[StevoJH]

Aww landrover,put me down for 2.

On a side note i would like to ask the forum members who are in the know,what will Australia be doing with its Leopard 1 Tanks?

Are we in talks with anyone to purchase our Leos?
Or would these tanks be a usefull asset for engineers or other units in the ADF?

Regards.

I thought they were all being gifted to museum's and RSL clubs etc?

 

[swerve]

I thought they were all being gifted to museum's and RSL clubs etc?

I'm just trying to imagine a Leopard at Chatswood RSL, where I often used to drink after work . . .

I see it's been tarted up a lot in the decade since then. I can't see the pokies in those pictures.

 

[StevoJH]

I'm just trying to imagine a Leopard at Chatswood RSL, where I often used to drink after work . . .

I see it's been tarted up a lot in the decade since then. I can't see the pokies in those pictures.

you lived in Australia? You learn something new everyday.

Coffs Harbour Ex-services has a world war 2 towed artillery piece on the corner next to the bowling green. Apparrently have an SLR in a display cabinet as well (I didn't see it when I was there last). There is a Huey on a pole 20 minutes up the road from Coffs (Woolgoogla RSL).

There's a deactivated 40mm bofors next to the local naval cadets building as well (i think its a 40mm bofors anyway).

I'm in Armidale at the moment though (finish my degree in 19 days).

 

[swerve]

you lived in Australia? You learn something new everyday.....

Secondment to Sydney by my then employer, to help out its Australian subsidiary for a few months. Enjoyed it.

 

[dragonfire]

Quick question - I saw the pic of an armed Australian BlackHawk helo, how many such helos are in service with the Autralian Army ? and will they be replaced armed versions of the NH 90

 

[PeterM]

Quick question - I saw the pic of an armed Australian BlackHawk helo, how many such helos are in service with the Autralian Army ? and will they be replaced armed versions of the NH 90

I believe it is 34 Black Hawks (2 have been lost out of the original 36)

Phase 4 of AIR9000 is in progress (replacement the Black Hawk with the MRH-90)

also Phase 2 of AIR9000 is in progress Phase 2 (acquisition of Additional Troop-Lift Helicopters (MRH-90))

I believe the total number will eventually be 46 MRH-90. 40 for the Army and 6 for the RAN (replacing Sea King)

As far as armament, I imagine it would be similar to the Blackhawk 9perhaps someone can clarify)

 

[Aussie Digger]

Quick question - I saw the pic of an armed Australian BlackHawk helo, how many such helos are in service with the Autralian Army ? and will they be replaced armed versions of the NH 90

The only armament Australian Blackhawk helicopters carry is a 7.62mm MAG-58 general purpose machine gun that is attached to a flexible mount (a "door gunner").

They sometimes carry a sniper team for a light fire support role (light fire team) as was done in Timor, but the Blackhawks in Australia do not have forward facing armament such as missiles, rockets, cannon etc.

The MRH-90's we are purchasing will also have a door gunner capability and will be able to have a light fire team capability (sniper, grenade launcher etc) but will not have fixed forward facing armaments.

Australia has the Tiger helicopter which has that sort of armament.

There are (IIRC) 34x Blackhawks in-service with the Australian Army, down from an original fleet of 39.

Australia is purchasing 40x MRH-90 helicopters for Army, 6x MRH-90 helos for Navy and 22x Tiger armed helos for Army.

Cheers.

 

[StevoJH]

The only armament Australian Blackhawk helicopters carry is a 7.62mm MAG-58 general purpose machine gun that is attached to a flexible mount (a "door gunner").

They sometimes carry a sniper team for a light fire support role (light fire team) as was done in Timor, but the Blackhawks in Australia do not have forward facing armament such as missiles, rockets, cannon etc.

The MRH-90's we are purchasing will also have a door gunner capability and will be able to have a light fire team capability (sniper, grenade launcher etc) but will not have fixed forward facing armaments.

Australia has the Tiger helicopter which has that sort of armament.

There are (IIRC) 34x Blackhawks in-service with the Australian Army, down from an original fleet of 39.

Australia is purchasing 40x MRH-90 helicopters for Army, 6x MRH-90 helos for Navy and 22x Tiger armed helos for Army.

Cheers.

And now my turn to add a question, with the retirement of the last UH-1's a while back, after the introduction of the MRH-90, will the ADF as a whole, have more or less lift then it did previously?

Depending on cost, would it be worthwhile purchasing the UH-1Y or another smaller helicopter as a Light Utility Helicopter?

 

[battlensign]

And now my turn to add a question, with the retirement of the last UH-1's a while back, after the introduction of the MRH-90, will the ADF as a whole, have more or less lift then it did previously?

Depending on cost, would it be worthwhile purchasing the UH-1Y or another smaller helicopter as a Light Utility Helicopter?

I would say that depends on the RAN ASW Helo selection.

In theory the total ADF lift will be around 920 with 46 MRH90s. Whether this is more or less than the former army capability also depends on when we are taking the assessment point from. Some sources suggest that the airforce transfered ~60 UH-1s to Army Aviation but then you have the averages of numbers servicable and the numbers converted to gunships and the consequent trooplift weight limitations as wekk as losses over time. A conservative estimate would be 36 in addition to the 34 Blackhawks. So taking 70 aircraft with 14 person capacities = 980. Obviously that is merely a total platform in inventory assessment and does not factor serviceability issues. Technically you would need to designate a year to accurately factor the CH-47s. Weren't there 12 initially? There will be 7 CH-47Fs. I'd say that it, without factoring the RAN, would be getting close (920+40ish v 980).

Needless to say, the acquisition of 24 NFH would significantly increase the total ADF lift available as there is, as had been discussed on the RAN thread, the capability to carry a boarding teams as well as ASW and ASuW equipment. There could be, in extremis, temporary conversions to lift helos in support of army landings from LHDs.

Not sure if any of that helps....

Brett.