T-90 Tank

[Waylander]

Exactly.
Maybe you are lucky and the KE hits the enemy.

Modern one part ammunition is a bitch to unload.
The casing is not very robust and one might brake it. Then the propellant (little balls) rolls through your turret. And that's more than just scary.
I have no idea why but HEAT tends to be more difficult than KE, at least the german ones.

 

[Duffy]

Sounds like a good system for tank on tank . But with communication between dismounted designators and lasing one target with two designators some distance apart could present a real dilemma. Also from the air all the pilot has to do is lase beside the target till the last few seconds. I guess nothings perfect.

 

[eckherl]

Exactly.
Maybe you are lucky and the KE hits the enemy.

Modern one part ammunition is a bitch to unload.
The casing is not very robust and one might brake it. Then the propellant (little balls) rolls through your turret. And that's more than just scary.
I have no idea why but HEAT tends to be more difficult than KE, at least the german ones.

You never know, you may even get lucky and zap someone with a sabot pedal also, hopefully they are not on the same team.

 

[Tavarisch]

Maybe they should equip the tank with ARENA instead. At least the chances of killing an ATGM from any given direction within it's operational angle are higher in comparison to the simple deflection of the ATGM itself by Shtora. If you're unlucky, the confused missile might hit somebody next to you.

The only problem with Arena is the fact that it's countermeasures cannot destroy high-kinetic energy rounds like sabots, since they're too fast for the system to react. And any poor bugger within 50 meters would most likely end up in a million pieces if he's unlucky enough to still be there once the countermeasure fires off.

I guess all systems have their pros and cons. Let's wait and see about this German directed energy APS. It looks like an interesting concept.

 

[Karl-XII]

I really am not sure, but I have a distinct feeling I read somewhere that the T-72 and T-80 for example were never built to go 1 on 1 with NATO-tanks, but rather 2-3 or even 4-5 against 1. Is the T-90 built with the same thought in mind, especially since it is a derivative (sorry for my lousy spelling, don't use my english much!) of the T-72??? If so, this has a serious impact on any 1 on 1 discussion, since the Russians wouldn't use the tank for 1 on 1 operations unless in dire... dire straits!

I have read that the Abrams, Leopard and Challenger main guns outrange the 125-mm 2A46M-gun of the T-90, but then again, I don't know to what extent the tube launched missiles of modern russian types are effetive.

In any case it is almost often stupid, especially if a military comander or soldier underestimates his enemy. The enemy is ALWAYS dangerous, is what I was taught in the Swedish armed forces, no matter if he is a militia man or a highly trained Spetznaz-officer. When the enemy is PROVEN to be under par or beat, one can discuss his eventually poor hardware on the battle-field, but never before. As my OT-Captain said, "If you start underestimating in the field of battle you will probably find yourself underestimating from 6 feet under before you know it", the best I could do in translating anyway! Don't beat the T-90 up to be invincible, but always be wary of it's capabilities!

I generally love russian kit, since it is often of a more... brutal and easy to use kind, and I am not fond of western "laptops on treads". But that is just my own thought, and I sure as heck would NEVER underestimate one of our Leopards or an M1A2 on the battlefield!

 

[PhysicsMan]

No Abrams version is in any way unmaneuverable. It is more the other way around as there are few vehicles in the US Army that can hope of matching it's cross country performance.
The same applies for many other armies out there (east and west) in which the MBT is the most maneuverable asset in service.

How do wheeled armor like BTRs compare to MBTs in mobility?

 

[Waylander]

They are not comparable in cross country performance unless we are talking about hard and open terrain.
Nevertheless they have natural advantages when it comes fuel thirst, maintenance and range on streets.

 

[eckherl]

They are not comparable in cross country performance unless we are talking about hard and open terrain.
Nevertheless they have natural advantages when it comes fuel thirst, maintenance and range on streets.

You have to be careful with them in open hard terrian also, they tend to bounce around a little. Due to some of the vehicle restrictions may be some of the reasons why the UK may relook at tracked vehicles.

 

[Feanor]

This thread is being re-opened. However 1 stern warning, this is not a "T-90 vs tank X" thread. This thread for general discussion on the T-90 tank, it's application, and Russian armor development and use.

Play nice guys.

Anyways, the main reason I wanted to re-open this thread was because of a major fundamental shift in Russian Army force organization in regards to armored units. For one, the number of armored units has been decreased significantly. There are now 4 tank Brigades in the Russian Army, each one about the equivalent of two tank regiments under the old structure. There is also a single tank btln in the ~30-40 motor-rifles brigades. This means that the proportion of MBTs to troops has dropped significantly.

The old force structure made room for around 5000 MBTs that were combat ready. There is now closer to 2000-2500 tanks in the new force structure. (eckherl your prediction came true, albeit the circumstances are such that I doubt anyone without your inside info could have seen it comind ) Also the size of individual tank btlns has increased to 41 tanks, from 31. Finally almost all the tank units have begun training much more actively, and T-90A production for MoD orders has reached 123 tanks for this year.

A few other points of interest, the "T-95" project has not been rolled out, and from the looks of it is pretty far from serial production. While a cooperation agreement has been signed with India, there is not much tangible cooperation as of right now (to the best of my knowledge). At the same time the program of upgrading T-72s in service right now has stopped almost entirely while efforts and finances concentrate on T-90A production. The obsolete T-62s from the former 42nd MRD have finally been put to rest (after a brief and surprisingly successful engagement in the Georgian war), and T-90As are finally being delivered to line units outiside the Moscow MD, with the bases in South Ossetia and Abkhazia taking deliveries of them last year.

So that's a bit of a recap on what's been going on in the world of Russian armor since this thread was locked last time. Overall it looks like a fundamental shift in the employment of tank units. We'll have to wait to see the new doctrine that's allegedly being developed, to see how this change is formalized.

 

[T.C.P]

Is the Russian Shotra-1 used on the t-90 better than the active protection suits used by the NATO????

 

[Waylander]

Is the Russian Shotra-1 used on the t-90 better than the active protection suits used by the NATO????

Which one? So far no NATO country has one in service.

 

[Feanor]

Algeria is setting up licensed assembly of the T-90SA tanks. They have previously bought 185 and 180 fully assembled T-90SA tanks, and upgrade kits for 300 T-72s. Now they've got a 1 bln USD deal for 200 licensed assembly tanks. And it may only be the first of a series of such deals.

There is also unconfirmed info about talks for T-90S deliveries to Iraq. Iraq already has the MTU-90 and the TOS-1A both of which use the T-90S chassis.

Gur Khan attacks!: Ðлжир купил лицензию на производÑтво 200шт Т-90С

 

[Feanor]

Algeria is setting up licensed assembly of the T-90SA tanks. They have previously bought 185 and 180 fully assembled T-90SA tanks (CAST says they only got a total of 307 earlier), and upgrade kits for 300 T-72s. Now they've got a 1 bln USD deal for 200 licensed assembly tanks. And it may only be the first of a series of such deals.

There is also unconfirmed info about talks for T-90S deliveries to Iraq. Iraq already has the MTU-90 and the TOS-1A both of which use the T-90S chassis.

Gur Khan attacks!: Ðлжир купил лицензию на производÑтво 200шт Т-90С
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1186414.html

 

[Tigerman999]

I think you can't simply do a little modifications far as I know this process take not a short time and costs a lot

 

[BlueRose]

Algeria is setting up licensed assembly of the T-90SA tanks. They have previously bought 185 and 180 fully assembled T-90SA tanks, and upgrade kits for 300 T-72s. Now they've got a 1 bln USD deal for 200 licensed assembly tanks. And it may only be the first of a series of such deals.

There is also unconfirmed info about talks for T-90S deliveries to Iraq. Iraq already has the MTU-90 and the TOS-1A both of which use the T-90S chassis.

Gur Khan attacks!: Ðлжир купил лицензию на производÑтво 200шт Т-90С

I've been waiting for an update on this, thank you! Interesting about Algeria there, they've got a good deal there. I'm not sure why Iraq would by them though. I thought they had a pretty substantial amount of M1 Abrams laying around, even a fair amount of T-72's. Now, I'm not gonna speculate too much here, but ISIS did capture a large armory when they overran Mosul, but there hasn't been much of any report on what was captured there.

 

[Feanor]

I've been waiting for an update on this, thank you! Interesting about Algeria there, they've got a good deal there. I'm not sure why Iraq would by them though. I thought they had a pretty substantial amount of M1 Abrams laying around, even a fair amount of T-72's. Now, I'm not gonna speculate too much here, but ISIS did capture a large armory when they overran Mosul, but there hasn't been much of any report on what was captured there.

It's pretty clear that Iraq needs more armor, both light and heavy. They've made stop-gap purchases of BMP-1s and T-72s in eastern Europe, but I wouldn't be too surprised if they want a more modern solution.

 

[alexkvaskov]

...but I wouldn't be too surprised if they want a more modern solution.

They have a fair number of M1s with more on the way, but it's not like they're proficient with it.

 

[Toblerone]

There is constantly talk in prorussian sites about the possibility of Iran commencing licensed production of the T-90 not that the military sanctions are lifted. It makes perfect sense to invest into this proven platform, they are already using T-72s.

http://tass.ru/en/defense/854186

 

[KiwiRob]

I've been waiting for an update on this, thank you! Interesting about Algeria there, they've got a good deal there. I'm not sure why Iraq would by them though. I thought they had a pretty substantial amount of M1 Abrams laying around, even a fair amount of T-72's. Now, I'm not gonna speculate too much here, but ISIS did capture a large armory when they overran Mosul, but there hasn't been much of any report on what was captured there.

According to Wikipedia ISIL operate 40 M1's.

 

[Feanor]

There is constantly talk in prorussian sites about the possibility of Iran commencing licensed production of the T-90 not that the military sanctions are lifted. It makes perfect sense to invest into this proven platform, they are already using T-72s.

TASS: Military & Defense - Russia proposes to Iran to organize licensed production of Russian T-90S tanks

As I understand it, they're still under serious sanctions, including requiring a UN Security Council permit to buy weapons like MBTs. They've also recently denied that they're interested in buying the T-90.