F-X deal is back on. Brazil back in action
- Thread starter drg
- Start date
Let's be real, even if a SABR radar fits, it's bit too much for an A-4 that doesn't have that many years of service left.
AFAIK the A-4's are not getting any new radar. In fact the work is just to them flyable again. There were some plans years ago for a common upgrade like the F-5BM's, however, AFAIK that was just marketing by IAI/Embraer.
By the way, . . . rumours have it that FAB may be looking at an advanced jet trainer to complement the F-X2 aircraft.
The Brazilian Air Force (FAB) received Best and Final Offers from the remaining official F-X2 contenders, SAAB, Boeing, and Dassault on 12 June.
FAB reiterates the final decision will be exempt of any preferential judgment. The aircraft selection process is based on operational, logistic, commercial, technical, offset, technological, industrial technology transfer criteria.
Official FAB notice (in Portuguese)
FAB reiterates the final decision will be exempt of any preferential judgment. The aircraft selection process is based on operational, logistic, commercial, technical, offset, technological, industrial technology transfer criteria.
Official FAB notice (in Portuguese)
Brazil
Thanks for posting the information Salty Dog can I assume weeks of paper work to go through before any annoucements?
Brazil's government has a difficult choice all three are solid platforms. I have my fingers cross I'm pulling for one but like most deals there is a polical side to this.
Thanks for posting the information Salty Dog can I assume weeks of paper work to go through before any annoucements?
Brazil's government has a difficult choice all three are solid platforms. I have my fingers cross I'm pulling for one but like most deals there is a polical side to this.
SAAB is sweetening the pot by offering 50% of the Gripen NG to be "Made in Brazil" for F-X2.
Saab May Make Gripen Jet in Brazil
That could mean that if Gripen wins in India, some of it may be made in Brazil too.
Saab May Make Gripen Jet in Brazil
That could mean that if Gripen wins in India, some of it may be made in Brazil too.
fretburner
Banned Member
Some updates I got from flight...Brazilian F-X2 Updates
July 13/09: MercoPress reports that deals are in the works between F-X2 contenders and Brazilian companies.
According to MercoPress, Boeing IDS President & CEO Jim Albaugh said agreements have been signed with 27 Brazilian companies that are capable of producing parts for the F/A-18, including Embraer. The move could reportedly translate nto 5,000 jobs througout the entire supply chain. Saab Gripen’s marketing chief Bob Kemp was reportedy quoted as saying that Gripen International was prepared to shift up to 50% of future production to Brazil.
The report also adds that Brazilian President Lula da Silva has invited French President Sarkozy to its independence day celebrations on September 7, as a guest of honor. Da Silva reportedly said that he hopes to sign new defence accords at that time. This is taken by some as an indication that Dassault’s Rafale is currently the favored candidate. France is Brazil’s most significant defense supplier, however, and the statement is not definitive.
July 13/09: MercoPress reports that deals are in the works between F-X2 contenders and Brazilian companies.
According to MercoPress, Boeing IDS President & CEO Jim Albaugh said agreements have been signed with 27 Brazilian companies that are capable of producing parts for the F/A-18, including Embraer. The move could reportedly translate nto 5,000 jobs througout the entire supply chain. Saab Gripen’s marketing chief Bob Kemp was reportedy quoted as saying that Gripen International was prepared to shift up to 50% of future production to Brazil.
The report also adds that Brazilian President Lula da Silva has invited French President Sarkozy to its independence day celebrations on September 7, as a guest of honor. Da Silva reportedly said that he hopes to sign new defence accords at that time. This is taken by some as an indication that Dassault’s Rafale is currently the favored candidate. France is Brazil’s most significant defense supplier, however, and the statement is not definitive.
Spacearrow99
Member
Here is a link the Brazilian Naval Strength thread
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/navy-maritime/brazilian-naval-strength-5147-6/
The Brazilian are going to issue tenders for AAW escorts, OPV/corvettes, a join logistics ship, and a aircraft carrier. So, Da Silva could be taking F-X2 tender or any of these naval procurement projects.
Brazil weighs French, US, Swedish fighter jet contract bids
The Brazilian F-X2 competition is getting close to the wire.
Price-wise it's the Gripen NG
Politically it's the Rafale
Capability-wise it's the Super Hornet.
September 7 is Independence Day in Brazil and President Lula has invited President Sakozy as the guest of honor. Major defense deals are expected to be signed . . . . . The result should be interesting.
Ananda
The Bunker Group
Dare to say that Rafale's has the upper hand ?
First the Libyan. then Brazil..finally the rafale's get some export actions.
Like most others my first guess would be the Rafale, second guess Gripen. Politics rules.
Criticism grows over Colombia's U.S. military plan | Reuters
"I don't like the idea of an American base in the region," Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said
Does not sound like a president that is about to purchase American fighters...
I also cannot resist the temptation to comment on: "Capability-wise it's the Super Hornet."
Although currently the SH is surely more capable than the Rafale, the version that Brazil will be getting in 2014 will be much more capable than today's Rafale -- I am not saying it will be "more capable" than SH however my guess would be that they will be in the same ballpark, both with some weak and strong points. Of course SH will also improve but overall the SH will probably not make the dramatic improvements in capability that Rafale will see (like a 60% improvement in radar range due to introduction of AESA). Both are limited by being 4. gen designs. However if you talk about "capability/cost" then SH will still have the upper hand, due to the higher cost of Rafale.
I presume that whichever a/c is picked the A-Darter will be integrated? Does anybody know which other weapens Brazil wants to integrate?
Vivendi
fretburner
Banned Member
Is Boeing this desperate? Or was this more to appease the Brazilian Government? Maybe both?
Brasilia: The United States is prepared to make an unprecedented offer to transfer technology behind its F/A-18 fighter jets to Brazil to score a multi-billion-dollar contract, US officials said Wednesday.
Would they do the same for India?
This should be interesting...
Defense Security Cooperation Agency
NEWS RELEASE
On the web: DSCA Home Media/Public Contact: (703) 601-3859
Transmittal No. 09-35
Brazil – F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Aircraft
http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2009/Brazil_09-35.pdf
NEWS RELEASE
On the web: DSCA Home Media/Public Contact: (703) 601-3859
Transmittal No. 09-35
Brazil – F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Aircraft
http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2009/Brazil_09-35.pdf
The F-X2 finalists submitted their "Best and Final Offers" last week.
Dassault Rafale - Euro 50M
Boeing F/A-18E - USD 55M
Saab Gripen NG - USD 50M
Here's the buzz. . . . . The Gripen NG is seen as a prototype project with avionics yet to be sorted out. This is attractive for the FAB to develop new systems, however the top brass are not keen to acquire a system that is not yet fully operational. The F-18 and Rafale are technically tied ahead of the Gripen NG, the Rafale with an edge in technology, and the F-18 ahead in logistics support, especially availability and least cost in parts support. The F-18 also has an edge in weapons availability and price. France and the USA have pledged ToT, offsets, and partnering with Brazilian firms for in-country manufacture.
The FAB will submit their final recommendation to the Minister of Defense and President next week with the F-X2 winner to be announced on 7 September.
Dassault Rafale - Euro 50M
Boeing F/A-18E - USD 55M
Saab Gripen NG - USD 50M
Here's the buzz. . . . . The Gripen NG is seen as a prototype project with avionics yet to be sorted out. This is attractive for the FAB to develop new systems, however the top brass are not keen to acquire a system that is not yet fully operational. The F-18 and Rafale are technically tied ahead of the Gripen NG, the Rafale with an edge in technology, and the F-18 ahead in logistics support, especially availability and least cost in parts support. The F-18 also has an edge in weapons availability and price. France and the USA have pledged ToT, offsets, and partnering with Brazilian firms for in-country manufacture.
The FAB will submit their final recommendation to the Minister of Defense and President next week with the F-X2 winner to be announced on 7 September.
The sales prices for Super and Rafale are surprising. The Super price is about what the Navy is paying for them and Rafale seems low from all that I have read at 50M Euros.
I am surprised Rafale has the edge in technology. I believe it is the Super that is flying with a fully developed in production AESA while the Rafale's RBE2 is a PESA. Further I understand that Rafale cannot self designate ground targets. On the other hand I am not surprised that Gripen NG is seen as a prototype project since much of what Saab has been promising has yet to be delivered.
Who do you think will wind up getting the contract and why?
The Rafale final offer price is Euro 50M, down from Euro 70M.
IMHO the Gripen is the wild card. Price-wise it is attractive, but not enough to face the FAV Su-30MKV to the north.
The Super Hornet is the most complete package with after sales support, training, upgrades, and a legacy of thousands of hours of operations. The FAB will be jumping for joy if selected. By the way, I agree with your comments on the radars.
2009 is a centennial commemoration between Brasil and France and President Sarkozy is the guest of honor at the September 7 Independence Day parade in Brasilia.
Between the Rhino and the Rafale, it will be a photo-finish at the wire.
I wonder Dassault can cut the price of Rafale by close to 30 million dollars. That seems like a lot of money considering the fact that Brazil wants ToT and there is a production run of only 36 aircraft. Are relations that great with France and that bad with the US that they would spend considerably more for a plane with less overall capability and growth potential than the Rhino. I think it is especially strange if you take into account the total cost of ownership of the SHh will be considerably less than Rafale as well.
Does the FAB's opinion carry much weight with the politicians in Brazil?
Are you sure the date of the announcement is the 7th of September? If that's the case, there no chance in hell Lula can award the contract to SH or Gripen. That would be a real slap in the face for Sarkozy as a guest of honor.
Rafale has not a single export contract yet and is probably quite desperate to get the first one. The initial order is for 36 a/c however most likely they will order more. Brazil is a huge country with a steadily improving economy, and their ambition level is quite clearly indicated by the decision to build a nuclear sub.
Besides, the fly-away cost does not say much. In Norway it has for many years been popular to sell mobile phones for a few NOKs (less than a dollar) however then you need to sign up for a contract with the company selling the phone, lasting at least a year, so the 1NOK telephone is basically just a marketing trick.
SH fly-away is 55 million USD; if Brazil buys SH and "exercises all options" they will pay 7 billion USD for 36 a/c -- the fly-away is interesting, but not very significant it seems.
Vivendi