Australia chooses to Spanish shipping NAVANTIA.

A

Alonso Quijano

New Member
in a Spanish newspaper "El Mundo", published today that:

"The government in Canberra to choose Spanish as their operator customer preferred to invest 18,000 million in its battleships after the visit of King Juan Carlos"

"... It's 12 submarines, 10 frigates, 20 Ship accion maritima, a logistic supply ship in battle (BAC) and cazaminas.

"Navantia has a staff of 5515 employees spread across the Ria de Ferrol (2345 persons), the darsena Cartagena (1149 employees) and the Bay of Cadiz (1785) and Madrid (236 people )..."

This information is drawn from a Spanish newspaper, and therefore I have no link but I can put this another older:

The Australian Ministry of Defense has chosen Navantia as the only client that currently seeks to gain an agreement for the construction of 12 landing craft, indeed similar to those already made public for the Spanish Armada. The president of Navantia, Juan Pedro Gomez Jaen, traveled to Australia a few days ago with the aim of establishing some kind of agreement. According to the Diario de Cadiz Navantia sources, the support received from the Royal Family and Government in this encounter has been vital to Australia's political class, especially the Ministry of Defense, has received "a very positive message robustness and reliability of this company. " Before the end of the year, both sides are scheduled to discuss the contract terms for its immediate signature. This agreement will mean a new work load for the factories gaditanas, especially in San Fernando.

Moreover, the visit also served to confirm the expectations and advanced in the White Paper of the Australian Defense. Indeed, the country plans to build in the next ten years, several submarines, frigates, Type 20 ships BAM (Maritime Action Ship, currently being built in the bay for the Spanish Armada) and a vessel type BAC (Ship Supply in combat). All these orders are an economic amount of 20.000 million Australian dollars, about 12,000 million euros. For now, the contracts will begin the construction of submarines, which would be very well positioned Navantia. Just open the period, the Spanish company to submit its proposed contest to gain the agreement of that in this case, would benefit the plant in Cartagena.

Australia and permitiió Navantia to consolidate its two contracts with future millionaires a couple of years ago. The Canberra government decided to award the two major programs of the Australian Navy, which totaled more than 5,000 million euros, the consortia that participated in the group of Spanish public shipbuilding.
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Australia confía a Navantia la construcción de 12 lanchas de desembarco

at the end if all this comes true signature and official NAVANTIA get the biggest contracts in its history.

did not know that Australia had the submarine S-80 as a possible purchase.

:dbanana
 
StevoJH

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
The S80 is smaller then the Collins class, and in the 15 years between now and when the first submarine enters service, technology will change a lot. If anything the Collins replacement would be based on the collins class rather then on the S-80 class.

Regarding the frigates, three (possibly four) Hobart class destroyers will be built to a design based on the F100 class frigates. the 8 ANZAC replacements might be based on the Hobarts, but i'm fairly sure Canberra purchased the rights to the design, meaning that Navienta might not have much involvement in that project at all, even if the hobart design was used as the start point.

The Landing craft are for the two Canberra class LHD's, which are basically JCI class ships.

As for the 20 patrol combatants, Australia's Minor war vessel fleet is very young with the Armidale class patrol boats and Huon class mine hunters all entering service within the last 10 years, with the ships of the survey fleet all being commissioned in the 90's. So i don't see any replacement in that regard until the mid to late 2020's.

What exactly is the source? I can't read spanish.

Edit: whats with the link spam?
 
A

Alonso Quijano

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All these constructions refer to a period of 10 years.

I put the source is the same as previously translated, are the 12 landing craft that Australia is going to buy but also about the intentions with which Australia has NAVANTIA.
 
A

Alonso Quijano

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The S80 is smaller then the Collins class, and in the 15 years between now and when the first submarine enters service, technology will change a lot. If anything the Collins replacement would be based on the collins class rather then on the S-80 class.
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it all depends on how you want Australia to focus on defense with a future submarines.

submarine S-80 with a good 2500tn submarine oceanic qualities that also will feature the latest technology and a possible land attack Tomahawk Block IV missile.
also has a large arms:

Armament: 6 to 533mm tubes lanzatorpedos
Torpedoes DM2/A4 Multipurpose
Anti Mk48 torpedoes
Antiship missile UGM-84 Sub-Harpoon Block II
Tactical cruise missile UGM-109 Tomahawk

can travel nearly 4500 miles on it and can handle immersion with a single crew:

3 Officers
4 officiers
25 Ratings

8 can also lead to special forces soldiers.

Moreover, if Australia gets the tomahawk could shoot a target 1600klm away.
 
B

battlensign

New Member
Hmm...No.

I am sure that GF will be along presently to explain exactly why we are certainly not getting S80 type submarines from Navantia, but to tide you over in the interim:

1) The RAN is looking at something in the 4000t range, which at 2500t, the S80 ain't.

2) Any submarines built will be built by ASC (for a range of reasons - political, economic, sensitive tech etc)

Brett.

P.S recent experience suggests heavy modifications by the RAN even of Navantia designs it does procure.
 
N

Navor86

Member
I really hope that hey either look into something else than the BAM or that they customize it.
ATM the BAM only carries a 76mm + different machine canons.Seems to be quite underarmedt for a ship of 2500 ts. The Germ,an Braunschweig for example packs a RAM launcher and 4 RBS Missiles on a 1800 ts hull.
So there is definatly work to be done on the armament
 
T

the road runner

Active Member
Alonso Quijano said:
it all depends on how you want Australia to focus on defense with a future submarines.



can travel nearly 4500 miles on it and can handle immersion with a single crew:
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Australia will always have a requirement for long range patrol,for its Subs.

The Collins class has a range Approx. 9000+ nautical miles(17,000km +),so i do not see the S-80 as a sutable replacement for Collins.
 
StevoJH

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
the road runner said:
Australia will always have a requirement for long range patrol,for its Subs.

The Collins class has a range Approx. 9000+ nautical miles(17,000km +),so i do not see the S-80 as a sutable replacement for Collins.
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Weapons loadout of the S80 seems to be very low as well.
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Navor86 said:
I really hope that hey either look into something else than the BAM or that they customize it.
ATM the BAM only carries a 76mm + different machine canons.Seems to be quite underarmed for a ship of 2500 ts. The German Braunschweig for example packs a RAM launcher and 4 RBS Missiles on a 1800 ts hull.
So there is definatly work to be done on the armament
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Different roles. The BAM isn't meant for warfighting. The Braunschweig is. BAM is for patrol, EEZ protection, etc., not fighting sea battles. It's also designed to be reconfigurable for survey, MCM, etc.

BAM mission profile.

Stick a lot of weapons on the BAM & it can't do all the things it's designed for.

BTW, the BAM is designed for open ocean operations. The K130 has a much shorter range, & with less emphasis on the characteristics needed for effectiveness (including crew) over prolonged periods at sea.
 
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A

Alonso Quijano

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the BAM, you can configure as you like, it's how good it is.
If Australia wants to install more weapons you can do it but as stated before these vessels are intended to be a great patrol high.
 
A

Alonso Quijano

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I know Australia wants largest submarines of the S-80 currently is in the contest.

I just hope it does not happen again the same as Collins.
 
A

Alonso Quijano

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StevoJH said:
Weapons loadout of the S80 seems to be very low as well.
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I do not know why you say that.
the S-80 carries more weapons than a "ASTUTE", the Astute will only have more quantity.

The combat system developed by Lockheed Martin that I think is a more updated system that now carry the class "los angeles"

The combat system of the submarine S-80 includes: ability to launch missiles at ground intervention over long distances.

Satellite communications systems and data link Link for integration into the Force.

Acoustic sensors in the short, medium and long range to allow the detection, classification, approximation and attacking surface units, submarines and merchant traffic, detect mines and other obstacles.

Visual means of detection, optronic (all time) and electromagnetic him to pursue, in a discreet approach, attack, flight operations and intelligence collection.

Means of navigation aid to operate with certain tasks that require precision.

Dual purpose heavy torpedoes and long-range antiship missiles and mines.
 
P

PeterM

Active Member
Navantia building the RAN ships (if that is the case) is a little misleading.

Navantia is working in partnership with Australian companies to build the Hobart class AWDs with Australian Submarine Corporation (ASC) and Canberra class LHDs with Tenix. Development of the Australian shipbuilding industry is a big component of this, a considerable portion of the construction takes place in Australia.

Other than that like other procurerements, everything will be competing against similar options. Navantia certainly will have an advantage considering their strong existing ties with the RAN, but it is not guaranteed.

A good example is the landing craft to be acquired under Phase 3 Joint Project 2048

ADF will seek offers from Navantia for the construction and delivery of the LCM-1E landing craft

A final decision on the LCM-1E will be made by Government in 2010, once Defence has developed more accurate cost information and can consider offers to be sought from Navantia.

Options to build the LCM-1E in Australia will also be considered.​

Presumably the Anzac replacement will use some derivative of the Hobart hull, but that might be built in Australia.

The BAM seems to fit wth what the RAN is looking for for their future Offshore Combat Vessel, but it will have to compete against similar systems (possibly including the Gowind, Commandante and Braunschweig classes)

Submarines is where this is very unlikely. Australia already have the larger, longer range Collins. The 12 new submarines will be a new evolution of the Collins (or similar capabilty) with longer range and more capability. The collaborative partner are very likely going to be US companies leveraging their experience with SSNs.
 
A

Alonso Quijano

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But today if this is nothing new.

today almost every country where they want to buy some military transfer of technology and a certain percentage that will be constructed in their country.
which provides that wins the contest.
that's why I put the good news for NAVANTIA, but remember that NAVANTIA is a Spanish-owned company and thus benefit leaves Spain
 
P

PeterM

Active Member
Alonso Quijano said:
But today if this is nothing new.

today almost every country where they want to buy some military transfer of technology and a certain percentage that will be constructed in their country.
which provides that wins the contest.
that's why I put the good news for NAVANTIA, but remember that NAVANTIA is a Spanish-owned company and thus benefit leaves Spain
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Certainly it is great news for both Navantia and Spain

I am really keen to see how it turns out

Navantia will be a key partner for the RAN for a long time.

Navantia will also be in a strong position to bid for future vessels and there is a very sustantial period of naval procurement planned for the RAN over the next decade.

Here are the future planned developments (other the the Hobart class and Canberra class under construction and the future submarines)

12 x Landing Craft (LCM-1E)

  • First Pass Approval Complete
  • Year-of-Decision FY 2011-12 to FY 2012-13
  • Initial Operating Capability 2014 to 2016


20 x Offshore Combatant Vessels (2000t)

  • First Pass Approval FY 2012-13 to FY 2014-15
  • Year-of-Decision FY 2018-19 to FY 2020-21
  • Initial Operating Capability Beyond 2019

6 x Heavy Landing Craft (with improved ocean going capacity)

  • First Pass Approval FY 2012-13 to FY 2014-15
  • Year-of-Decision FY 2015-16 to FY 2017-18
  • Initial Operating Capability Beyond 2019




1 x Supply ship FY2016-17+

1 Strategic Sealift Ship (10,000t - 15,000t) FY2019-20+

8 Future Frigates (7000t) FY2019-20+
 
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A

Alonso Quijano

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PeterM said:
What is the BAC?

Are the RAN LHDs being fitted with Scomba?
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The BAC is a supply ship in combat.

http://servicios.lavozdigital.es/graficos/bac.jpg

is 174 meters in length and I understand that the lead Scomber.

Here you have an item:

Spain's SCOMBA common core combat system prepares to take command - Jane's International Defence Review

UK was interested in this ship and Navantia was submitted to the contest but never win NAVANTIA because the British were concerned that their vessels are manufactured 100% in UK to give more jobs.
 
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