Spanish Navy is considering buying F-35B

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Any word on what spain wants to replace is carrier? How many airacraft are they looking at? 1 for 1?

The JC1 is such a spiffy looking ship and being very compatable with the F-35 would be a reasonable place to start.

With say 12 aircraft, you would be looking at around 1200t of fuel to last 14 days before resupply.

This is simular to the amount of aviation fuel carried by the USMC wasp class. (still a lot less than 8500t in a CVN). I don't know but this would appear to about doubling fuel space for the JC1 (I have heard around 700t). This is a minium, more would be better(say to 2000t, 3000t even better). Adding 4 weapon lifts.

Ideally I would allow aircraft to take off/land regardless of what state the lifts are in. So adding a 10m plug, so that the rear lift can be indesposed, but still launch aircraft. But the existing layout is workable.

Rear dock could be reduced or removed to make additional room.

I would imagine in surge conditions up to 24 F-35 could be crammed on board. However you would need sub weekly resupply to operate at this level.

These modifications would make a carrier about ~2 times more efficent at running fixed wing airops as a regular JC1.

But If you build 3 (or 2) JC1's each operating ~6 x F-35B's with a share pool of 3 for maintence. Then you have a carrier that can very effectively operate 18 aircraft (21 carried, 21 surge). You have 3 launch/recovery areas (can be located in different areas of the battlespace), room for helo ops, 2100t of aviation fuel, 6 aircraft lifts, 3 weapon lifts, way more hanger space (CVN sized combined), way more surge capability (like 36 aircraft if you could spare a resupply ship to continually refuel them as they would deplete 700t in a few days at any intense sortie rate). One ship could be customised by having extensive aircraft mainence facilities, but shared between all 3 ships.

And you would also have huge amphibious capability.

Perhaps a JC1 with the following modifications, 2 additional weapon lifts, 300t additional aviation fuel store. These combined would mean a 2 ship fleet would have:

4 aircraft lifts
2000t avation stores (~300 sorties)
6 weapon lifts
9500m2 of deck space
6600m2 of hanger space

Quiet reasonable. Fuel stores are still light (20% of a CVN), but as long as the carrier is operating with allies or not too far for a high frequency low volume decent supply line to be established. Ideally you would have 2000t of aviation fuel onboard each. Then you could increase the tempo of sorties to a reasonable level so you could operate 18 aircraft between them.
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
For starters, modifications to the JCI class to turn them into real carriers would be:
- Remove the Well Deck
- Engines for 25+ Knots
- Increased Munitions stores and improved munitions handling equipment.
- Vastly increased fuel bunkerage for Jet fuel.
- Leave aft lift as is (its designed like that so Chinooks can be stored in the hanger.

Stingray, as far as i can tell they already have 2 lifts, that is plenty given the size of the airgroup, plus given the take off run needed for STOVL aircraft, those lifts should keep up with the take offs anyway.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Well until the F-35 is operational we won't know exactly how it will perform, but the british have a extra long runway for heavy take offs. An extra 10m would be useful.

I wonder how to increase its speed, two additional pods powered by two additional LM2500.

Maybe sacrifice the lower deck for additional engines, fuel, weapons and spare stores.
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Well until the F-35 is operational we won't know exactly how it will perform, but the british have a extra long runway for heavy take offs. An extra 10m would be useful.

I wonder how to increase its speed, two additional pods powered by two additional LM2500.

Maybe sacrifice the lower deck for additional engines, fuel, weapons and spare stores.
HMS Invincible Runway: ~170m
JCI runway: 202m
HMS Queen Elizabeth will be 280 metres long but i'm not sure how much of this will normally be used for take offs since i'm fairly sure the JBD's are around halfway down the flight deck.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
I wonder how to increase its speed, two additional pods powered by two additional LM2500.

Maybe sacrifice the lower deck for additional engines, fuel, weapons and spare stores.
1. Still got the wrong hull shape. Needs some remodelling.
2. Er - yes. Of course.

For starters, modifications to the JCI class to turn them into real carriers would be:
- Remove the Well Deck
- Engines for 25+ Knots
- Increased Munitions stores and improved munitions handling equipment.
- Vastly increased fuel bunkerage for Jet fuel.
When you say "Remove the Well Deck", do you mean remove the whole dock/heavy vehicle deck, not just the dock itself?. You shouldn't need all that volume for the extra bunkerage, munitions stores & engines.
Also -
Change hull shape (currently designed for maximum internal volume & modest cruise speed. It's inefficient for higher speeds)
Increase flight deck area.

Whoops! We've designed a new ship.

Tell you what: let's start with Cavour. :D
 

Alonso Quijano

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
huauuu!

I first want to clarify that the JCI is "not an aircraft carrier."
The JCI is a strategic projection ship, "created for assignments with Marines amphibians, heavy trucks, landing craft and all materials and logistics.
It also has a hospital.
The JCI is so if you have a platform that can be used to support our carriers PDA, or its substitute when in dry dock.
The JCI is designed to provide some air support to troops landing.
if we want an aircraft carrier with all the capabilities to make it a perfect carrier, we had not designed the JCI, we would have created another type of vessel, maybe something like this:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2420/nuevosproyectosizar02jj3.jpg

some 30,000 tons and only dedicated to the work of an Air Force board.


The JCI is designed for landings amphibians but is also a multipurpose Swiss army knife, in other missions if you want to use single carrier, you can use throughout the warehouse to store airplanes and helicopters, deck also with type harrier fighter or F-35B, take your hand and a supply ship as our future BAC to provide all the fuel you need.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/6708/g455bac20cantabria20600fj9.jpg

but I repeat that JCI is not an aircraft carrier "and therefore does not have the same characteristics that can have a good carrier, but if it can be used as an additional platform.
logically, and if the ship is full of heavy tanks and soldiers, the only aircraft which can provide is the one at cover and little more.
 
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